Boars falling out

[meepfish66]

Hi

I've had a pair of male guineas 10 years ago and they got on so well and were very happy to be handled. we wanted to get some new guineas and bought 2 males again. Unfortunately after weeks of escalating behaviour their bond has broken by a fight and we're now trying to do our best to keep them happy.
We've separated them into 2 different cages (one is in the ferplast modular 4 we bought for them both, the other in a pets at home 120). We thought about buying an 8x2 c&c cage that we can split into 2:4x2 for them each so they can be neighbours.
When we first got them they were happy to be handled, and they still happily come and take food off them, but they no longer like being handled, I don't know if it's the flight and flight feeling from the 2 not getting on but we'd Iike handling to be stress free so we can clip nails and do health checks and put them in their pen for an extra run around.
We bought a cuddle taxi but they don't trust it as they know it means being picked up.
Any help or advice that can be offered around handling, cages, broken boar bonds or living as neighbours would be very gratefully received. Thanks!

 

[Merab]

Welcome to the forum.
Sorry I’m not enough of a behaviour expert to help but someone will be able to help.
There are a number of people here who have piggies living side by side because they don’t get on.

I have a rescue pair of piggies who really don’t like being handled.
It’s taken over a year for them to allow me to check them without major drama.
Moses still refuses to be weighed so I pop him into a paper bag and put that on the scales !

Patience is needed.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Welcome to the forum and I’m sorry to hear of the fall out.

One of my pairs have fallen out. It happened after nine weeks together and they have now lived side by side for well over three years. They are so much happier now they don’t have to live together

Their no longer wanting to be handled - sometimes new piggies will seem happy to be handled but as they settle in and gain confidence in their surroundings and with you, they can become much more confident in saying that they don’t like it. If that is the case then actually it’s a good thing in one sense - it means they really trust you (the fact they take food from you is a major sign of trust also)!

I have had a mix of piggies some of whom I can handle and others I couldn’t - some came round, others never did. Of the two I have left, one loves it (cuddles as well as health maintenance checks) and the other is a major mission to even clip one nail (he will bite)!

I’ve added several guides in below which will hopefully help you on all fronts.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips

 

[Piggie Mom]

I've got three teenage boars (2 togheter, one with my senior piggie) who all have decided handling is now unacceptable, the key for me has been consistency, almost every day I take them out of the cage, just for a few minutes to cuddle and get some treat and it's been very helpful. I've immediately noticed how my pair whom I needed to rebond started refusing to let me take them out of the cage when I let their bond re-establish, while my teen who cuddles every day most days doesn't protest at all when I extract him from the cage.

Another tip is talking and coming from the side not above when you want to take them out of the cage as their prey instincts won't react as strongly to that! Hopefully your piggies will become more accepting of handling soon, and for me its only been during the teenage that this has been a problem, my senior doesn't get "feral" even when he's been babysat as he now knows the drill and isn't testing boundaries anymore

 

[meepfish66]

Thanks for all the replies. Looking forward to being part of your community @Piggie Mom how do you get the ones that don't like handling. I try to come from the side but they get so scared and just run and start shaking. Then it just seems to make them more scared of handling. Our first 2 were never bothered.
@Piggies&buns glad I'm not alone!

 

[Piggie Mom]

Thanks for all the replies. Looking forward to being part of your community @Piggie Mom how do you get the ones that don't like handling. I try to come from the side but they get so scared and just run and start shaking. Then it just seems to make them more scared of handling. Our first 2 were never bothered.
@Piggies&buns glad I'm not alone!

If I have a cozy I'll gently herd them into it or if they're already in it it's easy to grab it, while doing this I'll be calmly talking to them. It's slightly stressful the first times, but you just have to get them used to it and learn how to do it so that they take the least stress from it.

If I for some reason (one of my piggies learned my strategy ) can't get them in a cozy I'll have some treat and get them somewhere in the cage where it's easy to grab them and then as soon as they're in my arms they'll get the treat I used to trick them with

 

[meepfish66]

So we've set them up as neighbours. They chat to each other and have a see through door each so they can see each other in their cages.
If either of them have floor time (which we do separately) they try to circle the others cage and then they start rumble strutting and teeth chattering at each other.
The cages are 143cmx79cm with plenty of hay and stuff to chew but they've started to occasionally chew their bars.
We feel at a loss.

 

[Piggies&buns]

So we've set them up as neighbours. They chat to each other and have a see through door each so they can see each other in their cages.
If either of them have floor time (which we do separately) they try to circle the others cage and then they start rumble strutting and teeth chattering at each other.
The cages are 143cmx79cm with plenty of hay and stuff to chew but they've started to occasionally chew their bars.
We feel at a loss.

This is normal territorial behaviour for fallen out boars

 

[Merab]

Bar chewing is a guinea pig thing - most piggies will chew the bars at some point.
You are doing fine for them.
They are not in each other’s territory but can see , smell and communicate with each other.
They are behaving normally for piggies whose lives can be like a soap opera.

 

[Lorcan]

Chewing the bars is normal. Bann and Mourne were side by side and Mourne only stopped chewing on the bars to eat, sleep, and yell (at Bann).

 

[meepfish66]

Thank you so much everyone for the reassurance. It's so easy to overthink everything! And when you Google, there's so much out there that conflicts. I really appreciate everyone's support and sharing their experiences, thank you x

 

[fluffysal]

My separated boys liked having the hay either side of the divider. They really liked stealing each other's hay!

 

[AidaB]

Our boys live separately, and have for a little while, for various reasons.

They love having a hay pile near each other, but also a separate one for when they would rather eat alone, away from the divide.

Chewing the bars is very normal in this house. (Wally werepig )
Sometimes encouraging away from the bars before offering food, can help break the cycle.


Our mode of guinea pig scooping up to transport for weigh ins/floor fun is to encourage everypig into a fleece bag/cuddle sack.
After a couple of weeks of us encouraging/herding they have all managed to pick up on our cues and mostly walk into the bag themselves, without us having to persuade them in.

Thank you so much everyone for the reassurance. It's so easy to overthink everything! And when you Google, there's so much out there that conflicts. I really appreciate everyone's support and sharing their experiences, thank you x

We no longer use general Internet searches for help with guinea pig information, just the guinea pig forum.

 

[meepfish66]

This is our cage layout, they both have a see through door facing each other.
And this was Tony and Chocolate when Chocolate had floor time. There's some occasional teeth chattering /rumble strutting and then there's some looking through the see through door or standing nose to nose.
They've been separated since Monday evening when the furball rolling scrap happened (no blood was drawn). And they now have the same cage layout since the second cage arrived yesterday.
We're wondering if they miss each other and want to be back together or is it that they get on better because they have their own space.
If anyone has any experience on re-introducing, or advice on the experience, I appreciate any sharing.

Update on pickups, coriander in the cuddle taxi and more regular attempts seems to be working (unless it's more because the boys are more chilled), Tony let's me touch all his paws, fully check him over, and then hold him while I feed him greens, Chocolate is still very nervous, but he's let me hand feed him in the cuddle taxi and stroke the top of his head, I haven't tried to get him out of that yet cos he still freezes and gets nervous so want to build that trust, though both are happy to walk around me and hand feed from me in floor time. Thanks for everyone's help with this

 

[Piggies&buns]

These behaviours dont mean they want to be or can be back together.
As their bond is broken then they will be happier to be apart
They will however interact between the bars - that is what you want them to do.
Behaviours at the bars are interaction but can also be territory marking.
The chances of a successful reintroduction following a bond breaking fight are sadly non-existent. To that end, we would not recommend a reintroduction when a furball fight has occurred.

 

[meepfish66]

Thanks @Piggies&buns I appreciate that. I can see that. They've had a little hello at the bars, and now they're both home in their own safe space it's all calm. they've just both been sat eating hay where they can see each other and then gone into their houses.

 

[meepfish66]

So we were going to get a C&C but before we decided to buy yet another cage, we wondered if we could rig our current cage in a similar setup. Some creative thoughts and zipties later, it doesn't look too bad!
They're not too keen on seeing each other at the moment, they tried to lunge at each other and then major serious teeth chattering - that definitely puts away any thoughts of reintroducing them - they pretty much seem to not like each other at all But hopefully they'll feel less lonely when the new set up settles down I appreciate everyone's help and support

 

[Piggies&buns]

It looks good

They will be sussing out the new boundary but should settle down in time.

 

[fluffysal]

We guinea slaves are a very inventive lot! They will settle but if they're anything like my boys they will be weeing gallons by the divider for a while. This will pass too once they realise that they are staying like that.