Bonding advice for a pig with a rough past

[CuddlePigMum]

Hi Everyone

I'm looking for some advice on boar bonding for my now single pig. I've kept pigs for many years but I've never been in a situation where I've lost one of a pair at such a young age.

The back story is; I adopted a pair of brothers from a questionable rescue - pigs very much picked me - at the end of last year. The only background info I had to go on was they were about a year old and had been with a family who's kids had developed allergies. Quickly found out that they were aggressive when picked up and handled, but after much TLC this was resolved and although they're not cuddle pigs they loved feed time, human interaction and will suffer being pick up if there's cucumber in it for them.
A couple of months ago one of the boars became very aggressive towards his brother, completely out of the blue, he'd chase him around the cage and was especially aggressive in the outdoor run, where he'd corner his brother and attack his rump repeatedly. Tried separation and reintroduction etc to no success.
Unfortunately we lost the aggressive boar recently to a post-operative illness, leaving his brother alone.

Max seems a lot more comfortable now he has his own space and isn't having to watch his back all the time, he's still very vocal with us, and hasn't lost any of his confidence when he's running around the living room or demanding food. The only hangover really that remains is he doesn't like to be in the outdoor run any more, he'll tolerate it for a bit but then begs and jumps up, and bites the bars to be brought in, food only seems to distract him for a few minutes.

Although Max seems happy for the moment with just human interaction I know he's very young (17/18 months) to be without a piggy friend for the rest of his life.
I would really like some advice on what to look for in a partner for him, and what reactions I should look for from him so I know he'd prefer a partner to his current situation.
Max used to be the dominant pig before his brother became so aggressive, but he tends to display his dominance verbally and with lashing of butt swaying rather than aggression. He's a big softy really, with shed loads of uncharacteristic confidence and independence.

I'd also like some advice on being critical about the bonding services available for boars, I've been burnt by some advice given to me by vets and others recently which frankly has me doubting my ability as a pig mum.
I feel uncomfortable with the idea of signing my boy over to a rescue for a week for bonding, especially since they would have vet rights and some even require compulsory mite treatments before admission. I can't even begin to come to terms with signing him over to a large team of people in a noisy rescue when he's been in that situation before.
I've looked through the rescue locator for my area (Cambridgeshire, UK) and identified a couple that might be worth contacting that provide boar dating services, however what questions should I be asking, or what things should I be looking out for when approaching these rescues?
Things like best practice, normal procedure, ensuring safety and security of my pig, or things that might raise red flags in these areas or others...

I feel completely out of my depth, and although I'll never pretend to be an expert, I'd like to approach finding him a friend a little less blind than I am right now.

Thanks in advance;
CuddlePigMum & Max

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Everyone

I'm looking for some advice on boar bonding for my now single pig. I've kept pigs for many years but I've never been in a situation where I've lost one of a pair at such a young age.

The back story is; I adopted a pair of brothers from a questionable rescue - pigs very much picked me - at the end of last year. The only background info I had to go on was they were about a year old and had been with a family who's kids had developed allergies. Quickly found out that they were aggressive when picked up and handled, but after much TLC this was resolved and although they're not cuddle pigs they loved feed time, human interaction and will suffer being pick up if there's cucumber in it for them.
A couple of months ago one of the boars became very aggressive towards his brother, completely out of the blue, he'd chase him around the cage and was especially aggressive in the outdoor run, where he'd corner his brother and attack his rump repeatedly. Tried separation and reintroduction etc to no success.
Unfortunately we lost the aggressive boar recently to a post-operative illness, leaving his brother alone.

Max seems a lot more comfortable now he has his own space and isn't having to watch his back all the time, he's still very vocal with us, and hasn't lost any of his confidence when he's running around the living room or demanding food. The only hangover really that remains is he doesn't like to be in the outdoor run any more, he'll tolerate it for a bit but then begs and jumps up, and bites the bars to be brought in, food only seems to distract him for a few minutes.

Although Max seems happy for the moment with just human interaction I know he's very young (17/18 months) to be without a piggy friend for the rest of his life.
I would really like some advice on what to look for in a partner for him, and what reactions I should look for from him so I know he'd prefer a partner to his current situation.
Max used to be the dominant pig before his brother became so aggressive, but he tends to display his dominance verbally and with lashing of butt swaying rather than aggression. He's a big softy really, with shed loads of uncharacteristic confidence and independence.

I'd also like some advice on being critical about the bonding services available for boars, I've been burnt by some advice given to me by vets and others recently which frankly has me doubting my ability as a pig mum.
I feel uncomfortable with the idea of signing my boy over to a rescue for a week for bonding, especially since they would have vet rights and some even require compulsory mite treatments before admission. I can't even begin to come to terms with signing him over to a large team of people in a noisy rescue when he's been in that situation before.
I've looked through the rescue locator for my area (Cambridgeshire, UK) and identified a couple that might be worth contacting that provide boar dating services, however what questions should I be asking, or what things should I be looking out for when approaching these rescues?
Things like best practice, normal procedure, ensuring safety and security of my pig, or things that might raise red flags in these areas or others...

I feel completely out of my depth, and although I'll never pretend to be an expert, I'd like to approach finding him a friend a little less blind than I am right now.

Thanks in advance;
CuddlePigMum & Max

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss!

Our recommended rescues all operate to a good standard of care at all stages of the rescue/adoption process and any dating will be conducted under the supervision of a piggy savvy, experienced person who is familiar with the problems/traumatic experiences that can come with piggies from a bad background.
If you are upfront about having a tricky boar just coming out of his teenage months, then the rescues can tell you whether they think they have suitable candidates in or not and will certainly try to help you. The rescues on our list have been carefully vetted and we can vouch for them, as we can't for any others. Sadly anybody in this country can call themselves a rescue or a breeder without licensing and supervision, and the results can be accordingly.
Our list of recommendations is the result of some very unhappy experiences; we wanted to make sure that we list only rescues where our members and their piggies are in absolutely safe hands. All our listed rescues offer boar dating apart from any RSPCA branches and the Blue Cross. Any rescues that offer residential dating (over the course of several days) over speed dating (same day dating) are well worth to travel further for as the resulting bonds are usually as stable as a sow bond because the crucial bulk of the bonding process happens at the rescue and full attention is paid to character compatibility.
Individual requirements for what kind of welfare standard/set-up in a home the rescues look for are usually listed on the website.

However, would you consider having Max neutered? This comes with a 6 weeks post-op safety wait but it comes with the huge advantage that a cross gender bond is the most stable of all piggy pairings.
Your boy is at an excellent neutering age and you are not all that far from Northampton where one of the best guinea pig vets in the country is located. His success rate with neutering operations is as close to 100% as any surgeon can reasonably get and - as he is general vet if specialising in seeing only cats, rabbits and guinea pigs - his neutering op prices are still very reasonable; so it is in your case really worth considering as a valid and practicable alternative.
None of the boars that I have had neutered myself or adopted already neutered by Simon Maddock have ever had any complications. It is well worth travelling that bit further in this case for total peace of mind, as I am doing myself! In fact, my example boar for a textbook recovery in the neutering guide has been done there.
I would still recommend to rescue date Max once he is safe; mutual liking and character compatibility come a long first in all piggy bonds - and being able to let him have the last word means that you have every chance of ending with a happy and stable pair.
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care
The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic

I would strongly recommend to contact all these places, ask your questions and then make up your mind. As long as your surviving boy is eating and drinking, he will hold.

 

[KathT]

When one of my boars died, I was offered a three and a half week old boar as a companion for my remaining pig by a rescue. I took my boar to the rescue to see if they got on initially - and they did. We were only there for an hour at the most and then I took them both home to continue the bonding process. It’s different with very young pigs compared to older ones I know, and I would also be apprehensive about leaving my boar somewhere. I would think any of the rescues on this site would be okay. I have used Neville’s Nest in Leicester a few times and they are great (the young pig experience above was with them). I think they would only keep your boy for a couple of days. I think the length of time a rescue keeps them depends on how busy they are too. So length of time to find a companion would be my question, as well as how they keep and care for the pigs. Not sure about mite treatment - why give them it if they don’t need it? You are a piggy Mum and you know what’s acceptable for your pigs - if it doesn’t seem right to you then don’t accept it. Don’t doubt your experience but remember that people may do things differently to you and as long as it doesn’t impact on your boys well being, then try them out. Good luck in finding a companion for him.

 

[CuddlePigMum]

Hi Wiebke

Thanks, me and my husband are still in shock really.

I wouldn't have him neutered, I've had boars die from neutering before and Max has already had an operation this year - to remove an abscess on his back and he didn't react well to the anesthetic. I just wouldn't want to put him through it all again, especially since both me and my husband don't have any annual leave left to look after him, we used the last of it up on his brother who was ill for three weeks before he died.
He'll definitely be picking his own friend, I honestly doubt he'd have it any other way!
Max seems fine for the moment, he's getting lots of attention and loves watching my husband bake in the kitchen....although apparently my cooking isn't as entertaining. He's off to boarding later this week, so he'll have lots of pigs to talk to, then when we're back from holiday we'll make contact with a few places and go from there. I wouldn't say he's a difficult pig, but I think he could do with a friend with a cool head.

Thanks

 

[CuddlePigMum]

When one of my boars died, I was offered a three and a half week old boar as a companion for my remaining pig by a rescue. I took my boar to the rescue to see if they got on initially - and they did. We were only there for an hour at the most and then I took them both home to continue the bonding process. It’s different with very young pigs compared to older ones I know, and I would also be apprehensive about leaving my boar somewhere. I would think any of the rescues on this site would be okay. I have used Neville’s Nest in Leicester a few times and they are great (the young pig experience above was with them). I think they would only keep your boy for a couple of days. I think the length of time a rescue keeps them depends on how busy they are too. So length of time to find a companion would be my question, as well as how they keep and care for the pigs. Not sure about mite treatment - why give them it if they don’t need it? You are a piggy Mum and you know what’s acceptable for your pigs - if it doesn’t seem right to you then don’t accept it. Don’t doubt your experience but remember that people may do things differently to you and as long as it doesn’t impact on your boys well being, then try them out. Good luck in finding a companion for him.

Thanks KathT

I was looking at Neville's Nest actually since Max is used to traveling, and pigateers was the other one since its closer. I wouldn't mind a younger pig, but I'd be worried that when the younger pig reached maturity and started to flex his muscles I'd have a similar problem as before, especially since Max never once bit his brother. What's your experience with this?
Yeh the mite treatment requirement didn't sit well with me at all, I get that there is a risk of disease/infection when introducing animals to one another, but I'm not going to medicate an animal for that privilege.
Thank you That's a really good way of looking at it. I've just felt so helpless over the last few weeks with Milo being ill and dying, the vets all had a different opinions and hindsight is a wonderfully cruel thing. I think Max is definitely handling it better than me.

Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke

Thanks, me and my husband are still in shock really.

I wouldn't have him neutered, I've had boars die from neutering before and Max has already had an operation this year - to remove an abscess on his back and he didn't react well to the anesthetic. I just wouldn't want to put him through it all again, especially since both me and my husband don't have any annual leave left to look after him, we used the last of it up on his brother who was ill for three weeks before he died.
He'll definitely be picking his own friend, I honestly doubt he'd have it any other way!
Max seems fine for the moment, he's getting lots of attention and loves watching my husband bake in the kitchen....although apparently my cooking isn't as entertaining. He's off to boarding later this week, so he'll have lots of pigs to talk to, then when we're back from holiday we'll make contact with a few places and go from there. I wouldn't say he's a difficult pig, but I think he could do with a friend with a cool head.

Thanks

Poor you!

If you have had bad experiences in the past, then travelling to Northampton is well worth it!
Having a good operating vet/recovery nurses team makes such a difference as I know from my own long term experiences. Neither of my neutered boys needed any special post-op support; they were behaving like nothing untoward had happened. Simon is so quick that GA is as minimal and short as can be.
He sees piggies especially with dental problems from all over the country and has more than ample neutering experience due to doing the job for well over a decade for the only rescue with a strict neutering/spaying policy before it closed down 5 years ago.
Unless it is a life or death emergency that cannot wait, I always have any piggies of mine operated there! So you may want to save the link, even if you are not considering a neutering op.

Here is our grieving guide; you and your husband may find it helpful: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

All the best!

 

[CuddlePigMum]

Poor you!

If you have had bad experiences in the past, then travelling to Northampton is well worth it!
Having a good operating vet/recovery nurses team makes such a difference as I know from my own long term experiences. Neither of my neutered boys needed any special post-op support; they were behaving like nothing untoward had happened. Simon is so quick that GA is as minimal and short as can be.
He sees piggies especially with dental problems from all over the country and has more than ample neutering experience due to doing the job for well over a decade for the only rescue with a strict neutering/spaying policy before it closed down 5 years ago.
Unless it is a life or death emergency that cannot wait, I always have any piggies of mine operated there! So you may want to save the link, even if you are not considering a neutering op.

Here is our grieving guide; you and your husband may find it helpful: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

All the best!

Thanks for the advice Wiebke

I'll be sure to save the link. The only vet in Cambridge with exotic animal specialism is extortionate, we're talking £500 for an abscess removal, drugs and aftercare/follow-ups not included, I'd give my pigs the world but I can't magic up that sort of money at short notice, especially since I've just paid for a wedding.

Hugs CuddlePigMum + Max

 

[KathT]

Thanks KathT

I was looking at Neville's Nest actually since Max is used to traveling, and pigateers was the other one since its closer. I wouldn't mind a younger pig, but I'd be worried that when the younger pig reached maturity and started to flex his muscles I'd have a similar problem as before, especially since Max never once bit his brother. What's your experience with this?
Yeh the mite treatment requirement didn't sit well with me at all, I get that there is a risk of disease/infection when introducing animals to one another, but I'm not going to medicate an animal for that privilege.
Thank you That's a really good way of looking at it. I've just felt so helpless over the last few weeks with Milo being ill and dying, the vets all had a different opinions and hindsight is a wonderfully cruel thing. I think Max is definitely handling it better than me.

Thank you

I know what you mean about feeling helpless - I’ve lost two pigs this year, one with a complicated dental issue that couldn’t be resolved and another who died suddenly while I was on holiday - you can imagine how that was! They can be such delicate creatures health wise, I think it’s because they hide it so well and when we eventually notice it’s turned into something nasty. I’m sure you did all you could for Milo and yes, hindsight is a cruel thing!
Julia at Neville’s Nest is really helpful so please phone and talk to her. The young boar I got from her is just coming up to four months old and he’s going to be a big boar. Initially, Vlad, my older boar, totally ignored Arthur as he was a baby and therefore not worth notice, and he accepted Arthur when the went to him for comfort if he was frightened. Arthur is now coming into his own and does the odd bit of rumblestrutting about, but I haven’t seen any sign of fighting at all. They have the odd nudging battle over a favourite spot but not very often. Arthur will be neutered soon as that’s Julia’s policy, which will probably calm him down.
If you can’t find a young boar, neutering is always an option, then he can have a lady friend to live with, though that does mean having to wait til 6 weeks after his op. I think neutering at Cat and Rabbit Clinic with Simon Maddock is about £100 - my vets charged £65 with everything in. I thought I was being clever and while my dental pig was in decline, I got two sows for his cagemate Bruno, who had previously been castrated. They were nearby where they could get used to each other and when Jack was pts, I put Bruno closer to the girls for a couple of weeks before trying to bond them in a neutral environment. Well that didn’t go to plan as Kitty, one of the sows, hated Bruno and attacked him straight off - and it was downhill from there! I ended up going back to Neville’s Nest with Bruno to be introduced to two new girls - and the start of bonding went well there. I had a cage in the back of the car and they all stayed together on the journey home and spent the afternoon getting to know one another. They’re a well bonded trio now and are so amusing with their antics!
I hope you get sorted - it’s quite stressful when you know they’re not happy and need to get them a friend, but it can be such a minefield, which is why boar dating is such a good thing - at least they find a friend they like in the end. Good luck!

 

[CuddlePigMum]

I know what you mean about feeling helpless - I’ve lost two pigs this year, one with a complicated dental issue that couldn’t be resolved and another who died suddenly while I was on holiday - you can imagine how that was! They can be such delicate creatures health wise, I think it’s because they hide it so well and when we eventually notice it’s turned into something nasty. I’m sure you did all you could for Milo and yes, hindsight is a cruel thing!
Julia at Neville’s Nest is really helpful so please phone and talk to her. The young boar I got from her is just coming up to four months old and he’s going to be a big boar. Initially, Vlad, my older boar, totally ignored Arthur as he was a baby and therefore not worth notice, and he accepted Arthur when the went to him for comfort if he was frightened. Arthur is now coming into his own and does the odd bit of rumblestrutting about, but I haven’t seen any sign of fighting at all. They have the odd nudging battle over a favourite spot but not very often. Arthur will be neutered soon as that’s Julia’s policy, which will probably calm him down.
If you can’t find a young boar, neutering is always an option, then he can have a lady friend to live with, though that does mean having to wait til 6 weeks after his op. I think neutering at Cat and Rabbit Clinic with Simon Maddock is about £100 - my vets charged £65 with everything in. I thought I was being clever and while my dental pig was in decline, I got two sows for his cagemate Bruno, who had previously been castrated. They were nearby where they could get used to each other and when Jack was pts, I put Bruno closer to the girls for a couple of weeks before trying to bond them in a neutral environment. Well that didn’t go to plan as Kitty, one of the sows, hated Bruno and attacked him straight off - and it was downhill from there! I ended up going back to Neville’s Nest with Bruno to be introduced to two new girls - and the start of bonding went well there. I had a cage in the back of the car and they all stayed together on the journey home and spent the afternoon getting to know one another. They’re a well bonded trio now and are so amusing with their antics!
I hope you get sorted - it’s quite stressful when you know they’re not happy and need to get them a friend, but it can be such a minefield, which is why boar dating is such a good thing - at least they find a friend they like in the end. Good luck!

That must have been awful! Loosing one to old age is one thing, but when they're young and get ill suddenly its just mortifying.
Its definitely niggling at the back of my mind about putting Max into boarding whilst we're away, but its on a farm with loads of grass and he loves it. My only other option is to drive him to my parents place who don't have grass and love their carpets a bit too much

Max is a big pig too, he's 1.4kg, he was that weight when he was at the vets in the new year and they said it was a case of him having such a large bone structure and long body. All the staff came in to look at him as they'd never seen a pig that big!
I wouldn't want to get Max neutered, I've lost pigs in the past to op complications and when Max had an abcess removed at the start of the year he had a reaction to the anesthetic, we nearly lost him. I couldn't risk putting him through it all, I don't think my heart could stand it.
I've had girls with strong personalities too, although its unfortunate its funny to watch the girls put an upstart boar in his place.

Thanks, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he meets a friend, and hopefully its the start of a beautiful bromance.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for the advice Wiebke

I'll be sure to save the link. The only vet in Cambridge with exotic animal specialism is extortionate, we're talking £500 for an abscess removal, drugs and aftercare/follow-ups not included, I'd give my pigs the world but I can't magic up that sort of money at short notice, especially since I've just paid for a wedding.

Hugs CuddlePigMum + Max

I've paid less than half at Simon's for a really tricky dental root abscess op; normal is about a third for a more straight forward operation.

 

[CuddlePigMum]

I've paid less than half at Simon's for a really tricky dental root abscess op; normal is about a third for a more straight forward operation.

Thanks for the advice, before this year it'd been many years since I had to think about serious vet bills.
Glad to know there are specialists out there that aren't out to take concerned owners out for a ride!