Bonding advice needed

[Proudpiggyowner]

Hi,
A while back, thanks to all your lovely advice, our gorgeous boar was neutered in the hope of finding a forever friend after his died. I did have a concern as my boar had hurt his previous mate after he was attacked so retaliation. Anyway, we have had some issues finding a sow, I was offered one but they didn’t know if they were pregnant. That was something I couldn’t risk. I found one who is slightly older than our piggy and due to her circumstances I couldn’t leave her where she was. I have set up a smallish cage next to the c and c cage and yesterday the boy talked to her and gave her a good sniff. Today, she sniffed him through the bars of the c and c cage. I have also put them in a ball pit with toys and hay. However, even though he is squeaking a lot and she is (I was told she never squeaks) he is also doing that rumbling noise between squeaks. I think he wants to mount her . I don’t know what to do. They are squeaking most of the time- eating - going through tunnels etc but I don’t want to put them in the same cage and find out they have fought. Any help and advice would be much appreciated. X

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,
A while back, thanks to all your lovely advice, our gorgeous boar was neutered in the hope of finding a forever friend after his died. I did have a concern as my boar had hurt his previous mate after he was attacked so retaliation. Anyway, we have had some issues finding a sow, I was offered one but they didn’t know if they were pregnant. That was something I couldn’t risk. I found one who is slightly older than our piggy and due to her circumstances I couldn’t leave her where she was. I have set up a smallish cage next to the c and c cage and yesterday the boy talked to her and gave her a good sniff. Today, she sniffed him through the bars of the c and c cage. I have also put them in a ball pit with toys and hay. However, even though he is squeaking a lot and she is (I was told she never squeaks) he is also doing that rumbling noise between squeaks. I think he wants to mount her . I don’t know what to do. They are squeaking most of the time- eating - going through tunnels etc but I don’t want to put them in the same cage and find out they have fought. Any help and advice would be much appreciated. X

Hi!

It is great that they are speaking to each other. That is a very encouraging sign!

The rumbling is perfectly normal behaviour in the presence of sows. It has several social functions from peacefully measuring up with other boars (he who has the most sonorous and impressive rumble comes top) to displaying dominance in an established bond but it is also how boars display to sows to show what a great mate they will make to have babies with - it is the sows that accept the boar, not the boys the sows.

I divide my neutered boars into 'rumble-singers' and 'mountaineers', depending on how they react when meeting sows. Rumble-singers are often the more submissive boys while mountaineers are more often the more dominant boys; it is not a fail-safe categorisation. Please accept that this part and parcel of cross gender dating.
A submissive sow will allow a boar to mount her even though she is not in season while a dominant sow will refuse to be mounted until she really comes into season and the boy has accepted her dominance.

Please take the time to read and watch our very comprehensive step-by-step bonding guide, which takes you through all stages of the complex bonding process and also has a special chapter on mixed gender bonding as well as several mixed gender pair and group bonding videos, which you may find interesting.
Here is the link: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Please don't let your fears and assumptions get into the way when bonding. If you do it at home, then the most difficult job is to hang back and NOT interfere, even when it gets a bit wild but not aggressive. Little tussles can happen when a sow is not willing to be mounted and tries to get her bum out of the way of fire but there is a distinct difference between a non-aggressive heat of the moment tussle and a full-on make or break leadership contest between two parties that are not backing down. I highly doubt that it will come to that.

Piggies that chat through the bars are in my own experience of over 100 cross gender bondings more likely to accept each other in my experience because they are keen on company. A vocal bonding can sound dramatic but it is very often non-aggressive.

However, in the end it always comes down to whether the piggies want to be together or not and can solve the leadership issue. All the best!

 

[Proudpiggyowner]

Thank you- I really will have a look. I was told she never chattered and she was so scared when she came to us but she is now an indoor piggy and will soon be in her c and c cage. I love your analogies. He is definitely dominant and looking at her- she has been bitten in the past as her ears are definitely chewed. She was a very unhappy piggy and although loved , she needed more and hoping both her human and piggy love will work out. I will go through everything tomorrow. I know fo a bonding service locally of If I get stuck

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you- I really will have a look. I was told she never chattered and she was so scared when she came to us but she is now an indoor piggy and will soon be in her c and c cage. I love your analogies. He is definitely dominant and looking at her- she has been bitten in the past as her ears are definitely chewed. She was a very unhappy piggy and although loved , she needed more and hoping both her human and piggy love will work out. I will go through everything tomorrow. I know fo a bonding service locally of If I get stuck

When I piggy dated Terfel at the rescue with my two cataract ladies Taffy and Tegyd (the latter having some major fear-aggression issues), the rescue lady suddenly asked me wether that was Chapati (Terfels' rescue name) talking? She'd not heard him make a single sound in months in the rescue and as soon as he was near the girls he was happily chatting nonstop; he was clearly just so happy - and he totally melted Tegyd's heart. No sign of her lunging at him or all the shenanigans from other bonding attempts except Taffy, who she very much wanted to be friends with.

A talking piggy in a new place is generally a happy piggy and one that is ready to meet their new friend if both are doing it. Are their cages next to each other so they can see and smell each other?

 

[Proudpiggyowner]

When I piggy dated Terfel at the rescue with my two cataract ladies Taffy and Tegyd (the latter having some major fear-aggression issues), the rescue lady suddenly asked me wether that was Chapati (Terfels' rescue name) talking? She'd not heard him make a single sound in months in the rescue and as soon as he was near the girls he was happily chatting nonstop; he was clearly just so happy - and he totally melted Tegyd's heart. No sign of her lunging at him or all the shenanigans from other bonding attempts except Taffy, who she very much wanted to be friends with.

A talking piggy in a new place is generally a happy piggy and one that is ready to meet their new friend if both are doing it. Are their cages next to each other so they can see and smell each other?

Yes they are and I have put them both in the c and c for a little bit. They spent 2 hours in a ball pit with toys last night and were happy. Still some grumbling but also lots of talking too

 

[Wiebke]

Yes they are and I have put them both in the c and c for a little bit. They spent 2 hours in a ball pit with toys last night and were happy. Still some grumbling but also lots of talking too

Hi!

As soon as piggies are face to face, you are bonding and have to ride the tiger. Piggies don't do play time; every meeting is a full-on bonding attempt.

By the sound of it, they are already well into the dominance/hierarchy phase of the bonding process if they have been together.

 

[Proudpiggyowner]

Does it sound like it’s going ok? X there have been no fights - I have ordered a few more things for the cage so that’s there’s two bridges and an extra hidey place although there are two tunnels etc and two grass things already

 

[Proudpiggyowner]

Does it sound like it’s going ok? X there have been no fights - I have ordered a few more things for the cage so that’s there’s two bridges and an extra hidey place although there are two tunnels etc and two grass things already

I went in and found them both cuddled down in different hidey things - feels mean moving one of them but I think it’s too soon to leave them together don’t you think?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I went in and found them both cuddled down in different hidey things - feels mean moving one of them but I think it’s too soon to leave them together don’t you think?

If they have been put together then you don’t want to separate them as that will interrupt the bonding. Once put together, they need to remain together unless then bonding clearly fails. If they are together and are getting on well, then don’t separate them again and instead leave them to fully sort out their relationship

 

[Proudpiggyowner]

Can Anyone advise? They are now in the same cage. I just went for it as suggested. She is squeaking a lot with him but he is still growling at times and it seems to be getting louder. On a few occasions, they have shared the same bed or cushion and she keeps squeaking at him but then he just starts growling for no reason. Any ideas what could be happening? He has tried mounting her but she gives a nudge. I think he was bullied by his previous friend before he became the dominate one. Could it be that he feels intimidated? I don’t want to get this wrong.

 

[Wiebke]

Can Anyone advise? They are now in the same cage. I just went for it as suggested. She is squeaking a lot with him but he is still growling at times and it seems to be getting louder. On a few occasions, they have shared the same bed or cushion and she keeps squeaking at him but then he just starts growling for no reason. Any ideas what could be happening? He has tried mounting her but she gives a nudge. I think he was bullied by his previous friend before he became the dominate one. Could it be that he feels intimidated? I don’t want to get this wrong.

Hi!

It sounds very normal to me for the babies being put in to their place at the bottom of the hierarchy (i.e. the post-bonding dominance phase).

Boars rumble-strut in order to impress the sows or measure up against other boars, or simply to express their boarly contedness. Piggies can also teeth chatter mildy to express their displeasure but that is just saying 'I don't like this'.


Sows will only allow a boar to mount them:
- During bonding: submissive acceptance to a boar when not in season. Dominant sows won't allow a lower ranked boar to mount them during bonding.
- When they are in season and ready to mate but not usually in the run up unless they are submissive.
- When they are not in season, then their bum is not available for mounting.
Basically he says I want to be your chosen boy and she says, wrong time.

This is a video of mine with rumblestrutting Dylan (black and cream) meeting two sisters who do not want to be mounted by him (i.e. they are not accepting him as a dominant boar).
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[Wiebke]

Just let them get on with it. The first few days are always bvery dramatic and it suddenly settles all down quite nicely as a bonded group.