Bonding after Bereavement

[Ethel & The Girls]

Hello all,

We recently lost one of our sows (Gertrude) at 5 years old. This has left her companion Ethel on her own. Ethel is also 5 years old.

We've just tried a bonding trial with a local rescue and it's failed with Ethel being bitten and blood drawn. The trial was with a bonded pair of 4 year old sows and undertaken at the rescue in a neutral space there.

I'm looking for advice as to what to do next. I'd like Ethel to have a new companion but this obviously has to work for all piggies involved.

Should I be thinking of trying a single piggy next time rather than a pair?

Should I be thinking of a younger piggy rather than one / a pair around Ethel's age?

How long should I leave it before trying bonding again? I want Ethel to recover from this trial but not sure how long to leave it.

Ethel was the dominant piggy in the previous pairing. The rescue said she went all in trying to assert her dominance but the other two sows were having none of it resulting in bites and blood.

Any advice greatly appreciated. My husband is a little apprehensive about trying again as Ethel has been bitten.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Trying her with a single submissive sow or a neutered boar is best.
Bonding with a young pair may also work but babies are best as they are more likely to allow her dominance.

Trying to bond her with an already bonded (and older pair) pair is the bonding most likely to fail. There would have been a dominant in their pairing and if your piggy is dominant then the two of them are highly likely to clash and the bonding fail as neither would be prepared to back down and lose position.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Trying her with a single submissive sow or a neutered boar is best.
Bonding with a young pair may also work but babies are best as they are more likely to allow her dominance.

Trying to bond her with an already bonded (and older pair) pair is the bonding most likely to fail. There would have been a dominant in their pairing and if your piggy is dominant then the two of them are highly likely to clash and the bonding fail as neither would be prepared to back down and lose position.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

Thank you for your reply.

You've confirmed what I was thinking and that a single submissive piggy would be the way to go.

I was nervous about trying babies due to Ethel being the dominant one but see this may be a possibility.

Such a nerve wracking experience and our first step into bonding guinea pigs. Glad we're not attempting it at home by ourselves!

 

[Piggies&buns]

It can be a nerve wracking experience!
Some things have more theoretical chance of working than others but sometimes what looks good in theory doesn’t work and vice versa. When it comes to bonding all you can do is try.

Babies can be rejected or try to be dominant and the older piggy then doesn’t take too kindly but generally speaking babies work well.

I bonded two of my dominant boars a few weeks ago. I have three boys.
One is a bereaved 6 year old (lost his cage mate in March) and was the dominant in his previous pairing.
The other is coming up 2 years old and he and his previous cagemate were separated due to a fight (both of them were too dominant) 20 months ago and have lived side by side ever since. So I had three separate cages each containing a single dominant boar and pretty Koch nowhere to go with any of them!
I decided I was going to try a bond between two of them and spent a lot of time considering which one of thee two younger would be best.
When I plucked up the courage to try, the 6 year old was more interested in companionship than dominance and immediately submitted to the 2 year old. The bond was largely uneventful despite me being on tenterhooks for several hours!

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

It can be a nerve wracking experience!
Some things have more theoretical chance of working than others but sometimes what looks good in theory doesn’t work and vice versa. When it comes to bonding all you can do is try.

Babies can be rejected or try to be dominant and the older piggy then doesn’t take too kindly but generally speaking babies work well.

I bonded two of my dominant boars a few weeks ago. I have three boys.
One is a bereaved 6 year old (lost his cage mate in March) and was the dominant in his previous pairing.
The other is coming up 2 years old and he and his previous cagemate were separated due to a fight (both of them were too dominant) 20 months ago and have lived side by side ever since. So I had three separate cages each containing a single dominant boar and pretty Koch nowhere to go with any of them!
I decided I was going to try a bond between two of them and spent a lot of time considering which one of thee two younger would be best.
When I plucked up the courage to try, the 6 year old was more interested in companionship than dominance and immediately submitted to the 2 year old. The bond was largely uneventful despite me being on tenterhooks for several hours!

You've given me hope with Ethel!

Just need to find a submissive companion for her. Will definitely try a single sow next time and keep my fingers crossed.

Can boars be submissive to sows? I'm wondering if the key is to find a submissive companion regardless of sex.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You've given me hope with Ethel!

Just need to find a submissive companion for her. Will definitely try a single sow next time and keep my fingers crossed.

Can boars be submissive to sows? I'm wondering if the key is to find a submissive companion regardless of sex.

Yes they can be. The most vital factor is compatibility

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your reply.

You've confirmed what I was thinking and that a single submissive piggy would be the way to go.

I was nervous about trying babies due to Ethel being the dominant one but see this may be a possibility.

Such a nerve wracking experience and our first step into bonding guinea pigs. Glad we're not attempting it at home by ourselves!

Hi

I am so sorry for your loss and your failed bonding. The top sow from the other pair must have felt very much on edge/threatened to instinctively defence bite. The normal sow equivalent for fighting for bite is mouth full of hair.
" Biting" And What You Can Do (Biting, Tweaking, Nibbling and Nipping)

I would recommend to look for a companion or two (ideally sub-adult, not fully grown sows) who cannot challenge your bereaved girl. A submissive neutered boar could also be an option.
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

As I know only too well, finding new companionship for breaved sows can be anything but easy. Piggies, and especially adult and older sows, can be much more complex than expected.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Hi

I am so sorry for your loss and your failed bonding. The top sow from the other pair must have felt very much on edge/threatened to instinctively defence bite. The normal sow equivalent for fighting for bite is mouth full of hair.
" Biting" And What You Can Do (Biting, Tweaking, Nibbling and Nipping)

I would recommend to look for a companion or two (ideally sub-adult, not fully grown sows) who cannot challenge your bereaved girl. A submissive neutered boar could also be an option.
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

As I know only too well, finding new companionship for breaved sows can be anything but easy. Piggies, and especially adult and older sows, can be much more complex than expected.

Thank you for your reply and advice. I've read through the links and the information is very helpful.

It's been a really tough time with losing Gertrude and we really want to do the right thing for Ethel by finding her a new companion. I suspected it wouldn't be easy but was hoping it wouldn't involve bites and blood being drawn.

Ethel would nip and mount Gertrude during their 5 years together but there was never any fighting (or bullying). Gertrude just seemed to accept it (she would protest with a squeal and freeze though).

We want to try bonding again with a new piggy but are wondering how long we should leave it before doing so. We don't know how stressful this attempt has been for Ethel. I'm collecting Ethel tomorrow and the rescue have forewarned me that the bite has gone through her lip. The vet at the rescue is checking her over before I collect her. They said Ethel is eating, drinking and seems ok in herself.

The rescue have said they have a single sow aged 2 years and also a pair of 8 week old sows coming in soon. They don't have any neutered boars at the moment.

Just not sure what to do for the best at the moment.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your reply and advice. I've read through the links and the information is very helpful.

It's been a really tough time with losing Gertrude and we really want to do the right thing for Ethel by finding her a new companion. I suspected it wouldn't be easy but was hoping it wouldn't involve bites and blood being drawn.

Ethel would nip and mount Gertrude during their 5 years together but there was never any fighting (or bullying). Gertrude just seemed to accept it (she would protest with a squeal and freeze though).

We want to try bonding again with a new piggy but are wondering how long we should leave it before doing so. We don't know how stressful this attempt has been for Ethel. I'm collecting Ethel tomorrow and the rescue have forewarned me that the bite has gone through her lip. The vet at the rescue is checking her over before I collect her. They said Ethel is eating, drinking and seems ok in herself.

The rescue have said they have a single sow aged 2 years and also a pair of 8 week old sows coming in soon. They don't have any neutered boars at the moment.

Just not sure what to do for the best at the moment.

It depends on how experienced the bonder is and can pick up on the subtle signs to abort in time instead of trying to push something through that is not going to happen.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your reply and advice. I've read through the links and the information is very helpful.

It's been a really tough time with losing Gertrude and we really want to do the right thing for Ethel by finding her a new companion. I suspected it wouldn't be easy but was hoping it wouldn't involve bites and blood being drawn.

Ethel would nip and mount Gertrude during their 5 years together but there was never any fighting (or bullying). Gertrude just seemed to accept it (she would protest with a squeal and freeze though).

We want to try bonding again with a new piggy but are wondering how long we should leave it before doing so. We don't know how stressful this attempt has been for Ethel. I'm collecting Ethel tomorrow and the rescue have forewarned me that the bite has gone through her lip. The vet at the rescue is checking her over before I collect her. They said Ethel is eating, drinking and seems ok in herself.

The rescue have said they have a single sow aged 2 years and also a pair of 8 week old sows coming in soon. They don't have any neutered boars at the moment.

Just not sure what to do for the best at the moment.

Go for the 8 weeks baby sows; they cannot challenge her and they are desperate to belong at that age. Ethel will be wary around any adult after her somewhat traumatic experience.

A bite to the lips is a classic defence bite from a piggy who feels cornered and invaded. It's the ultimate 'stay out of my space' stress response. It will heal but wait with any meetings until it has done so. You do not kow what baggage the other sows come with.

If you could have the babies in a divided run next to Ethel for some days so they can get used to each other through the bars, that will allay Ethel's possible fear-aggressive response and will up the success rate. We normally recommend to bond babies straight away but you will get two little ones, so they are not alone and you have to give Ethel time to get over her initial wariness. The trick did work for my highly fear-aggressive Dryw; she now lives with two runty girls just turning 3 years old in the coming week.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Go for the 8 weeks baby sows; they cannot challenge her and they are desperate to belong at that age. Ethel will be wary around any adult after her somewhat traumatic experience.

A bite to the lips is a classic defence bite from a piggy who feels cornered and invaded. It's the ultimate 'stay out of my space' stress response. It will heal but wait with any meetings until it has done so. You do not kow what baggage the other sows come with.

If you could have the babies in a divided run next to Ethel for some days so they can get used to each other through the bars, that will allay Ethel's possible fear-aggressive response and will up the success rate. We normally recommend to bond babies straight away but you will get two little ones, so they are not alone and you have to give Ethel time to get over her initial wariness. The trick did work for my highly fear-aggressive Dryw; she now lives with two runty girls just turning 3 years old in the coming week.

Thank you for your reply. I will speak to the rescue about the babies. I believe they are yet to be surrendered so will need to checked over before adoption (including ensuring they are girls).

We have a 5x2 C&C enclosure plus extra grids (enough for another 2x2 C&C space). So we could easily prepare divided spaces for Ethel and the youngsters. They can be next to each other and get used to each other first.

I'm looking forward to collecting Ethel tomorrow and hoping she's ok.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Sending support! I just lost one of my 5-6 year old sows a week ago. Thinking about a new friend is so difficult. The piggie I lost had a scar on her lip from a failed trio bonding attempt some years ago. So I know what that's like! How are you treating the cut? I cleaned Sugar's lip with a qtip dipped in saline solution every day till it healed. I hope your girl feels better soon and has new friends soon!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your reply. I will speak to the rescue about the babies. I believe they are yet to be surrendered so will need to checked over before adoption (including ensuring they are girls).

We have a 5x2 C&C enclosure plus extra grids (enough for another 2x2 C&C space). So we could easily prepare divided spaces for Ethel and the youngsters. They can be next to each other and get used to each other first.

I'm looking forward to collecting Ethel tomorrow and hoping she's ok.

Giving Ethel some time to heal and recover before trying another bonding is in this case a good thing. At the worst, they could live in a divided cage for the long term as your plan B. You'd still have a bonded pair and Ethel is guaranteed company for the rest of her life.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Just a quick update now we have Ethel back with us. She's got a couple of bites to her face (nostril and lip). The vet has seen her, wounds cleaned and we've been told to keep an eye on them. Ethel is eating, drinking and squeaking at us for food. Hopefully she's not too traumatised by this but we will definitely give her a break before trying again (babies next time).

Thank you again for your comments and advice.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Sending support! I just lost one of my 5-6 year old sows a week ago. Thinking about a new friend is so difficult. The piggie I lost had a scar on her lip from a failed trio bonding attempt some years ago. So I know what that's like! How are you treating the cut? I cleaned Sugar's lip with a qtip dipped in saline solution every day till it healed. I hope your girl feels better soon and has new friends soon!

Thank you . I hope your piggie is doing ok with her companion.

 

[Wiebke]

Just a quick update now we have Ethel back with us. She's got a couple of bites to her face (nostril and lip). The vet has seen her, wounds cleaned and we've been told to keep an eye on them. Ethel is eating, drinking and squeaking at us for food. Hopefully she's not too traumatised by this but we will definitely give her a break before trying again (babies next time).

Thank you again for your comments and advice.

All the best. I am sure that she is happy to be back home. These situations can flare up very quickly if just one signal exchanged is taken amiss.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Hello everyone. I thought I would update.

So we had a bonding trial with Ethel and the two little sows at the rescue (they are now 11 weeks old). They've been together for a week at the rescue and we brought them all home today. They are definitely getting along although I dont know how Ethel is keeping up with the little ones!

I'd forgotten how energetic little piggies are!