Bonding an older piggy with health issues in the least stressful way

LucyP

LucyP

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Hi all

I already have a thread for Dottie's ongoing health issues (Dottie’s breathing and skin issues) but this is a question about bonding so I assume it goes here? Sorry if not.

Dottie was very sadly bereaved just before xmas and lives alone now. Due to her age (5-6) and her progressive heart condition, the vet and rescue have both agreed that taking Dottie for a bonding date as we would usually do, may be too much stress for her; the long travel, being away from home in a rescue, and especially the chasing around etc that often goes with bonding, even positive bonds. So the plan with the rescue is to bring a rescue piggy back here to Dottie, and set them up side by side, leave them like that for some time and maybe try bonding, but maybe leave them as neighbours.

I'm wondering:

1. Does leaving them side by side for several weeks give them more chance of bonding without too much drama and chasing, assuming they are character compatible (which I know is not a given, esp in older sows)? Can drawing out the side by side bit for longer help them get to know eachother more gently and in a less threatening way?

2. The side by side living would not be neutral territory, it would involve Dottie's current 7x2 C&C home being split (we would probably make it 8x2 first). It would be deep cleaned but not neutral as such, as it is still in the same part of the room that Dottie's always been in. We struggle with space in this flat. I could make a neutral C&C cage in a different space (which I assume we would need to do to try an actual bonding), but it would be smaller. I don't think we can set up neutral side by side set up that's big enough for them to spend a few weeks in comfortably. Although I could look at it if needed, maybe throw out some furniture to make space!

3.Is it possible to gauge from their behaviour as side by side neighbours over a few weeks what their chances of successfully bonding might be? Or not really?

4. If they display signs of aggression, even as neighbours, are they ok to stay as neighbours or does the new pig go back? I suppose it depends on if it's causing either of them stress?

5. There are times when we need to move our pigs into a different room due to room temperatures (their main room is sometimes too hot or too cold) or a human sleeping in the front room for unavoidable health reasons. This has always been fine with our bonded pairs who have seemed quite happy to be de-camped together if needed (in fact, they used to purr at the novelty of change when put in the new place, and then purr again when they went back to the main base!) However, if we had a side by side pair which needed to be de-camped, they would probably have to be in two side by side ferplasts, or possibly even stacked. Is this acceptable from time to time, if they can still hear and smell eachother, even if they can't see eachother as well? Ferplasts are not as good as C&C for neighbourly interaction I know. That said, the majority of their time would be in the big C&C.

I would welcome any thoughts. The rescue lady (who is vastly experienced and highly recommended here) is thinking about which of her single pigs might respond well to this situation as we of course want them to have a positive experience.

We do probably need to end the piggy cycle after Dottie sadly, this is due to human health issues and various major challenges in the broader family, which just make this quite difficult.

We are still grieving Winnie and not quite ready for the change, but we really want to do right by Dot, (without causing her stress) so we need to act. I wish we had space to bring a pair to live next door to her as that would be better for the newbies I feel, but that's sadly not possible space wise.

Many thanks and sorry for all the questions.

Bw
Lucy
 
I’m sorry for your loss

1 and 3. No. Side by side is in no way bonding, it’s just a prior to bonding step. All it does is allow them to get used to each other but it does not give any indication as to whether they will be able to bond and it does not make them any more likely to bond. That only occurs when they go into neutral territory for bonding and it is only then they determine whether they like each other and form a hierarchy.

2. Side by side is not and does not need to be neutral. Within a couple of days, each half will have become each piggy’s territory anyway.

You will need completely neutral for the bonding pen though. You only need a 4x2 for bonding.

4. It is your choice whether they stay side by side or return to the rescue if they cannot bond.
If you are any ‘aggressive’ behaviours between the bars, then they are territorial and will usually subside in time.

5. Moving them to another room as singles is fine - it’s moving bonded pairs which can cause issues in a new environment.
Being in ferplasts is fine but they have to be side by side. You cannot stack single piggies at all.

I have two single side by side boys. They were once bonded but fell out and have now lived side by side for several years. They are absolutely fine like this - they get interaction between the bars but without having to share a territory

I hope that helps
 
Thank you that's really helpful clarity, esp re 1 &3.

So I guess we need to decide whether we want to try bonding at home or just go straight to setting them up as permanent neighbours. I've only ever had them bonded at rescues and brought home. One time we had a case that was quite active (chasing eachother for several weeks until they settled,) and the more recent one (which was Dottie and Winnie in 2024), where they were both very reserved at the rescue. There was a bit of chasing when they got home and some chin offs, but it settled within a few days I think. It's just a question of how much stress Dottie can take in order to find a friend. I suppose realistically, the safest thing is to just to not try bonding and leave them as neighbours. That is a bit trickier space wise but we can make it work if it's best for them.

The vet said this was one of those rare cases where leaving Dottie single could be justified in terms of keeping her life calm and predictable with her DCM diagnosis, but I think a neighbour could be the middle ground between her having some company without too much stress.

I suppose if we eventually need to return the other pig (we have already agreed with the rescue this would likely be the arrangement), would that be less upheaval for the new pig - ie is it less difficult for them to leave a neighbour, versus leaving a bonded friend? I feel really bad about the part where we might have to take the new one back.

Many thanks again
 
When it comes to older bereaved sows (in poor healthy or not), they can end up single and in a neighbour situation often. This is because older sows can be much less willing to accept a new friend at all particularly if it was a long term friend that they lost. Side by side is what is usually needed - they have their own territory but are not alone.

The full bonding takes two weeks of being in the same cage and in that time you will see dominance. Plus for a pair to be bonded in a rescue residential situation ie a week or so in rescue and then coming home means even if they were settled before coming home, the change in territory will cause a further two weeks.
So you having seen a lot of chasing when bringing previous pairs home is not unexpected

Sending a single back to a rescue is not a problem - they will be bonded with another at some point

Let us know how things go
 
Many thanks for explaining so clearly, that's really helpful.

I think it's that two weeks of settling and chasing that worries me, in case it's too much, so maybe we should go straight to neighbours. But I suppose we can see what pig the rescue comes up with and hear her thoughts too on whether it is worth a try bonding them. She has some other bonding dates lined up this week with some 3 year olds and she will get back to us once she knows who is with who, and who might be left still looking for a friend.

Good to know returning one is not the end of the world for them. The rescue has a waiting list for singles so hopefully the pig wouldn't be alone for long and I will try to think of this as fostering a pig and hopefully freeing up a space in the rescue for as long as she is here. I have no idea how we won't get attached tbh but I guess that's our problem, as long as the pig copes ok.

I will definitely be back on here for advice, esp is we decide to try bonding them, but even if we don't!

Many thanks
Lucy
 
Hi all

The rescue are still looking for a suitable single sow who could be Dottie’s friend (we think most likely side by side living to avoid stress, but we don’t rule out trying a bond).

Quick question- should we only be looking at sows? I know blue cross have some neutered single boys of varying ages but I assume that wouldn’t work, because living together might be too lively for Dottie, and I feel like living aide by side would be unfair on a boy desperate to meet the sow? Is this a reasonable assumption?

Probably irrelevant as we may well find a single sow soon but I was curious and trying to keep all options open.

Many thanks
Lucy
 
It could be stressful for a boar to live beside her not be able to get to her, particularly if young.
Older boars (4+years old) tend to calm down due to testosterone fizzling out and become about companionship but there’s still going to attempt to mount her if you put them together. Plus there is still the fact that not all older sows will accept a new live in friend, and once a sow is past pup bearing age they can also reject boars.
Really it comes down to what you are prepared to try and what a rescue can help you with if it fails - if you can take on older boar, side by side living for a while during the first week or two then see if a bonding will work. If it doesn’t work, see how side by side goes and if that also proves to not work that you then then return the boar
 
I think it's more likely to be a sow then, as most of the rescue boars have been on the younger side (up to about 3) which doesn't seem the best fit. Space wise it would be better to have a pair together, but I'm increasingly wondering if just going for side by side and not even attempting a bonding avoids the stress for Dottie. In which case, maybe it's good if we can give a nice home to a sow that's not been easy to match, but who might still enjoy a neighbour? It will be interesting to see how Dottie responds to having a neighbour. I hope she notices and enjoys it!
 
LucyP said:
. In which case, maybe it's good if we can give a nice home to a sow that's not been easy to match, but who might still enjoy a neighbour?
Click to expand...

Yes, it would be nice.
Older sows can be trickier so maybe they will have an older girl who would enjoy side by side companionship

Fingers crossed you can find a lady needing a home
 
Thank you. Our lovely rainbow pig Winne was sadly bereaved twice, and both times she met various pigs from across the South East before she found someone she deemed acceptable, so I have seen this pickiness in action! It's a big decision who to share your space with to be fair. (As an aside, Winnie seemed to have a great knack of only choosing new friends with underlying health conditions, but we like to pretend it's because she knew we would do our best to help them!)
 
Hi again - quick question and sorry if this should be in the cage set up section, I will post it there if better:

If you had an 8x2 C and C set up and wanted to arrange it for 2 pigs side by side, would you:

1. Split it width ways so the pigs have a rectangle each.

2. Split it length ways, so they had a long narrow strip each.

3. Do a kind of L shape divide so they both have a broader and longer bit each.

4. Something else?

One of them (our Dottie) will have a mooch if there’s food but with her health issues and age she does spend most of her time resting under one of her 3 hideys. The other one we haven’t found yet so don’t know what they might most want.

It may not matter too much but I wondered if there are optimal ways of making it as comfy and interesting as possible for them. Also so they feel as safe as possible.

It’s not really possible to change the overall 8x2 outer shell due to the rook layout.

Many thanks
Lucy
 
It would need to be split so each pig had a 4x2.
You can’t split a 8x2 cage lengthways as it would mean the cage is only 1 grid wide which goes against their needs (and actually means they would have less square footage). A cage needs to be 2 grids wide as a minimum
 
Thank you, that's what I was thinking too. It could possibly be 9X2 by the time we extend it but we will keep width 2 minimum.
 
Hi all,

The rescue are not having much luck finding a side by side neighbour for Dottie - there are some they say they wouldn't want to house that way. There is one sow (who has been identified as quite confident I think) and she is possible, but she's on a date this week with someone else first.

There is another potential option at another rescue I've seen but I am unsure. He's a bereaved 5 year old rex boy, blind in one eye and described by the rescue as docile and lovely. Someone suggested he could actually be a good match for Dottie as a next door neighbour, in terms of being a gentle companion with predictable behaviour. She is quite nervy and it was suggested they might be nice company for each other, but I worry he would feel stressed at not getting to her? Also he is not neutered so that would presumably mean lids on the C&C etc and proofing everything?!

We also wondered about re-arranging everything in our flat to try to somehow fit in a pair of girls next to Dottie as the rescue has a pair they'd be happy to pass to us. It may be just about possible but would be very difficult. And then someone else said that a pair of lady neighbours could be a lot of excitement for Dottie to witness, all the hormonal cycles and dynamics!

So I am confused..

We will take whoever we can find, as long as it is right for the pigs.

Any thoughts from the behavioural experts would be welcome!

Many thanks as ever
Lucy
 
If it were me, I would go for either option - the 5 year old boar, or a pair of girls next door (as your cage is an 8x2, then you only need split it in half and a 4x2 is absolutely perfect for a pair of girls) - but I’d lean towards the boar first simply because he’s also alone

Yes - either lid the cage, or (the easier option) of simply making the dividing wall 2 grids high
 
Thank you, that's really interesting and very helpful. We should know in the next day or so if the single girl they have in mind is happening or not. If not, I will enquire about the boar. Thanks again.
 
LucyP said:
Thank you, that's really interesting and very helpful. We should know in the next day or so if the single girl they have in mind is happening or not. If not, I will enquire about the boar. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
If neither of those is available, perhaps you could take on the bereaved boar in London whose owner is having to move and can't have pets in her next home. Sadly he isn't neutered i think so he'd have to be side by side but it would be better option for him than being advertised for sale as rescues all seem full..
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/need-help-rehoming-my-guinea-pig-asap.215259/
 
Thanks for the suggestions!

I wouldn’t rule that out (still waiting to hear re the others) but would depend on the age and temperament of the boy, as we’ve been advised against having a younger or more energetic one as a next door neighbour in case it was too stressful for him, or her. We had planned to get a sow but if we do get a boy it would have to be someone who’s very mellow and genuinely happy to be just a neighbour. I don’t want to cause any further stress to either of the piggies.
 
PS just found the older thread and it seems the bereaved boy is 2. I’m guessing such a young boy would find it stressful being next to a girl, which is a shame. I hope he finds a home soon.
 
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