Bonding and formative years

[Agashe]

Hello,I have a 6 week old boy named J. Rod and a 2 Y/O boy named Hazel

Hazel was bereaved and by a cruel twist of fate J. Rod lost his cage mate as well to a URI. J. Rod had crusty eyes and sneezing and was given Baytril and that cleared his eyes up but had to switch to another med since it appeared to stop working for him (after 5 days his sneezes became snot and made him wheeze a bit) Hazel also started hooting but I’m unsure if it is related or not. They were both given antibiotics and breathing treatments for home. My question is,should I put their cages next to each other? I’m scared J Rod will start to think he’s human and he already wheeks when he is hungry as I have been syringe feeding him for about 2 weeks as the URI left him lethargic I suppose. I’m also scared to put their cages close because Hazel was hooting for 2 days but with the meds it seems to have stopped. Is there anything I can do for them? Some are saying URIs can’t be transmitted but others are saying it can be. Any advice would be greatly appreciated I just don’t want J Rod to decide that he’s human and I bet Hazel would enjoy the company even if it’s via cage.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Are they both better?

to be honest, j rod is too young to be by himself. Piggies under four months old need to be bonded with another piggy. At the very least they need to be next to each other for through the bar interaction but being bonded properly will be best.

URIs can be transmitted but having a healthy immune system will often mean the of piggy is able to fight it off and not show symptoms. It’s the same as with us - you can live in the same house as someone with a sickness bug but never catch it yourself

to add though, piggies will wheek if they think food is on offer

 

[Agashe]

Are they both better?

to be honest, j rod is too young to be by himself. Piggies under four months old need to be bonded with another piggy. At the very least they need to be next to each other for through the bar interaction but being bonded properly will be best.

URIs can be transmitted but having a healthy immune system will often mean the of piggy is able to fight it off and not show symptoms. It’s the same as with us - you can live in the same house as someone with a sickness bug but never catch it yourself

to add though, piggies will wheek if they think food is on offer

They both seem to be doing better but I’m apprehensive to say that as I’m worried something bad may happen if i do,most of the symptoms seem to have gone but I’m not entirely sure as they are on meds and the last time J Rod was on meds it worked for 3 days and then stopped. Hazel could have gotten it due to him being extremely stressed from the grief of his own cage mate so his immune system may not have been at 100% I will try to put cages next to each other for sure but I’m not sure if bonding them would be a good idea with the URI possibly still in play,they’re both on meds but I don’t want to mess this up

 

[Piggies&buns]

They both seem to be doing better but I’m apprehensive to say that as I’m worried something bad may happen if i do,most of the symptoms seem to have gone but I’m not entirely sure as they are on meds and the last time J Rod was on meds it worked for 3 days and then stopped. Hazel could have gotten it due to him being extremely stressed from the grief of his own cage mate so his immune system may not have been at 100% I will try to put cages next to each other for sure but I’m not sure if bonding them would be a good idea with the URI possibly still in play,they’re both on meds but I don’t want to mess this up

They are/were both being treated anyway so being kept apart isn’t really necessary. if you’re going to put their next cages to each other, then you may as well bond them properly. They are sharing the same air so the risk factor is exactly the same between living as neighbours and being properly bonded. Being properly bonded will be better for the baby with him being so young and having a friend to live with greatly reduces stress and therefore makes for a stronger immune system

 

[Agashe]

They are/were both being treated anyway so being kept apart isn’t really necessary. if you’re going to put their next cages to each other, then you may as well bond them properly. They are sharing the same air so the risk factor is exactly the same between living as neighbours and being properly bonded. Being properly bonded will be better for the baby with him being so young and having a friend to live with greatly reduces stress and therefore makes for a stronger immune system

okay is there anything I should keep in mind when attempting a bond? I don’t see many videos of young-old bonding even though I’ve tried to find some. I don’t want either to become too scared or anything and J Rod is at about 280 while Hazel is at 1040

 

[Piggies&buns]

This guide explains exactly how to do a bonding. Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

you need to put them in a neutral bonding pen (not somewhere which forms either of their territory) and leave them to it for several hours. During the time they are in the pen you are going to see lots of behaviours so read the guides below as these explain what you will see. While they are in the bonding pen, you need to thoroughly clean down the cage they are going to live in, rearrange it and make it so that it isn’t recognised as their normal territory. Once the introduction has gone well in the bonding pen and they are displaying good signs that they like each other, then you move them together to their cage. It will take a further two weeks for them to fully establish a relationship.
If things fail while they are in the bonding pen, then they will need to remain separate but live as neighbours. A successful bond comes down to character compatibility and mutual liking and if they don’t have that it will be obvious and they wont be able to bond.

when they move to their new cage together -
ensure you always handle the dominant piggy first. It’s important to respect their hierarchy
ensure all hideys have two exits. Don’t use anything which is enclosed and only has one way in or out as it can mean a piggy can get cornered and defensive injuries can occur.
Ensure their cage is big enough - two boars need a cage of 180cm x 60cm/6ft x 2ft

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[Agashe]

This guide explains exactly how to do a bonding. Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

you need to put them in a neutral bonding pen (not somewhere which forms either of their territory) and leave them to it for several hours. During the time they are in the pen you are going to see lots of behaviours so read the guides below as these explain what you will see. While they are in the bonding pen, you need to thoroughly clean down the cage they are going to live in, rearrange it and make it so that it isn’t recognised as their normal territory. Once the introduction has gone well in the bonding pen and they are displaying good signs that they like each other, then you move them together to their cage. It will take a further two weeks for them to fully establish a relationship.
If things fail while they are in the bonding pen, then they will need to remain separate but live as neighbours. A successful bond comes down to character compatibility and mutual liking and if they don’t have that it will be obvious and they wont be able to bond.

when they move to their new cage together -
ensure you always handle the dominant piggy first. It’s important to respect their hierarchy
ensure all hideys have two exits. Don’t use anything which is enclosed and only has one way in or out as it can mean a piggy can get cornered and defensive injuries can occur.
Ensure their cage is big enough - two boars need a cage of 180cm x 60cm/6ft x 2ft

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

I have a much bigger cage than that so that’s good. The vet has recommended that I put them together only after they have finished up their meds which would be next Monday but I have already gone ahead and put them close. I agree they might as well just be put together but the vet said to wait so I will. The size difference just scares me when it comes to bonding you know?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I have a much bigger cage than that so that’s good. The vet has recommended that I put them together only after they have finished up their meds which would be next Monday but I have already gone ahead and put them close. I agree they might as well just be put together but the vet said to wait so I will. The size difference just scares me when it comes to bonding you know?

The choice is yours. Unfortunately a lot of vets underestimate the importance of having a cage mate. We see many posts from people who have been told by their vet to separate their piggies if one gets ill. What they haven’t considered is that separation is stressful and that brings its own problems. I dont think from reading your posts that yours have ever lived together though so I see where you are coming from.

Their body size is irrelevant When it comes to bonding. If they arent compatible they could fight but you need to be present and supervising when you first put them together so will be there (with a pair of oven gloves) to separate them if they instantly fail.
what you mustn’t do is panic if they display normal dominance, think they are fighting and separate unnecessarily. Ther will be chasing, mounting, humping and squealing. Don’t panic if these things happen. Squealing is submission - the underpig will literally be saying, I know you’re the boss, don’t hurt me.

 

[Agashe]

The choice is yours. Unfortunately a lot of vets underestimate the importance of having a cage mate. We see many posts from people who have been told by their vet to separate their piggies if one gets ill. What they haven’t considered is that separation is stressful and that brings its own problems. I dont think from reading your posts that yours have ever lived together though so I see where you are coming from.

Their body size is irrelevant When it comes to bonding. If they arent compatible they could fight but you need to be present and supervising when you first put them together so will be there (with a pair of oven gloves) to separate them if they instantly fail.
what you mustn’t do is panic if they display normal dominance, think they are fighting and separate unnecessarily. Ther will be chasing, mounting, humping and squealing. Don’t panic if these things happen. Squealing is submission - the underpig will literally be saying, I know you’re the boss, don’t hurt me.

yes they have never lived together as of yet,I’m hoping for a smooth bond but only time will tell. I think I will wait at least for the sake of Hazel since he just went through his loss and I’m about to “drastically change” his cage by going from Pine to Fleece. I don’t know if he’ll like it as he’s 2 and he’s been on pine since I got him. The little one loves his fleece blanket though,I worry about him because he will burrow under his blanket (his “bedding” he doesn’t go under but his blanket he will) and I do know that bonding will involve me possibly stressed by what I see but not to intervene because it will only make the chances of working lower since they have to discuss who is Alpha of the pack I was just saying that I can hardly find small-big guinea pig bonding videos

 

[Piggies&buns]

yes they have never lived together as of yet,I’m hoping for a smooth bond but only time will tell. I think I will wait at least for the sake of Hazel since he just went through his loss and I’m about to “drastically change” his cage by going from Pine to Fleece. I don’t know if he’ll like it as he’s 2 and he’s been on pine since I got him. The little one loves his fleece blanket though,I worry about him because he will burrow under his blanket (his “bedding” he doesn’t go under but his blanket he will) and I do know that bonding will involve me possibly stressed by what I see but not to intervene because it will only make the chances of working lower since they have to discuss who is Alpha of the pack I was just saying that I can hardly find small-big guinea pig bonding videos

burrowing under fleece is something which piggies do, you don’t need to worry. You could try clipping them fleece to the edge of the cage or weighing down the edges of the fleece by using hides.

please don’t worry about their size difference. Members of this forum are often bonding older piggies with younger piggies when a previous cage mate passes. It’s common place, you don’t need to worry.

 

[Siikibam]

He won’t mind having his cage changed. In fact bonding him with a new friend could give him a new lease of life, and he may come out of his shell and be happy again - as long as they’re character compatible. I would disregard what the vet said and bond them. The new piggy is too young to be living alone. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Agashe]

burrowing under fleece is something which piggies do, you don’t need to worry. You could try clipping them fleece to the edge of the cage or weighing down the edges of the fleece by using hides.

please don’t worry about their size difference. Members of this forum are often bonding older piggies with younger piggies when a previous cage mate passes. It’s common place, you don’t need to worry.

I put them in my lap/floor today,Hazel (oldest) seemed unimpressed at first and J Rod just kept running back to my lap I think that is because that’s where he’s been receiving his syringe feeds. Hazel was sniffing J Rods butt later and he teeth chattered only for maybe 30 seconds. Hazel popcorned a bit and spun his head a few times like a dog shaking off bath water (I haven’t seen Hazel do this otherwise so I don’t think it’s anything like an ear infection) they both ate some of the hay available to them and both groomed at separate times.I have since put them in their home cages and the next time they are introduced I plan for it to be permanent placement but I will actually wait for Tuesday of next week as that’s when meds stop and J Rod had a bit of sneezing. All of this sounds good right?

 

[Agashe]

He won’t mind having his cage changed. In fact bonding him with a new friend could give him a new lease of life, and he may come out of his shell and be happy again - as long as they’re character compatible. I would disregard what the vet said and bond them. The new piggy is too young to be living alone. Good luck with whatever you decide.

For the sake of saving time typing again I’ll just copy,hope that’s okay lol I put them in my lap/floor today,Hazel (oldest) seemed unimpressed at first and J Rod just kept running back to my lap I think that is because that’s where he’s been receiving his syringe feeds. Hazel was sniffing J Rods butt later and he teeth chattered only for maybe 30 seconds. Hazel popcorned a bit and spun his head a few times like a dog shaking off bath water (I haven’t seen Hazel do this otherwise so I don’t think it’s anything like an ear infection) they both ate some of the hay available to them and both groomed at separate times.I have since put them in their home cages and the next time they are introduced I plan for it to be permanent placement but I will actually wait for Tuesday of next week as that’s when meds stop and J Rod had a bit of sneezing. All of this sounds good right?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I put them in my lap/floor today,Hazel (oldest) seemed unimpressed at first and J Rod just kept running back to my lap I think that is because that’s where he’s been receiving his syringe feeds. Hazel was sniffing J Rods butt later and he teeth chattered only for maybe 30 seconds. Hazel popcorned a bit and spun his head a few times like a dog shaking off bath water (I haven’t seen Hazel do this otherwise so I don’t think it’s anything like an ear infection) they both ate some of the hay available to them and both groomed at separate times.I have since put them in their home cages and the next time they are introduced I plan for it to be permanent placement but I will actually wait for Tuesday of next week as that’s when meds stop and J Rod had a bit of sneezing. All of this sounds good right?

It sounds positive so far but the fact you put them together and then separated them means you interrupted the process so next time you put them together they will be starting over again. Bonding needs to be a one time thing - meeting and permanently living together, you shouldn’t separate them once you’ve put them together. There is absolutely no need to wait until the Meds are finished - you’ve put them together once, they’re presumably still in the same room so waiting until the meds are done isn’t going to make the slightest difference to catching something off the other

 

[Siikibam]

As has been mentioned previously, please stop putting together then separating. It’s not how it’s done. Either you go all in or not at all. They’re sharing the same airspace so I don’t understand why you think you need to wait. But that’s your choice.

 

[Agashe]

As has been mentioned previously, please stop putting together then separating. It’s not how it’s done. Either you go all in or not at all. They’re sharing the same airspace so I don’t understand why you think you need to wait. But that’s your choice.

the vet said to wait

 

[Piggies&buns]

the vet said to wait

that’s fine, you do what you are comfortable with. It’s just that our point was if you’ve already put them together once and they are in the same room then they are both exposed to the same things anyway so waiting doesn’t really serve a purpose at all.

 

[Siikibam]

If you’ve decided to wait then you can’t keep putting them together then separating when they go back to their cage. It’s stressful for them because each time they’re starting to work things out, you separate them. Each time they meet they have to start again from the beginning.

We’ve mentioned that they share the same airspace, and young pig is too young. And waiting is kind of negated if you keep putting them together anyway. Hope the bonding goes well.

 

[Agashe]

It sounds positive so far but the fact you put them together and then separated them means you interrupted the process so next time you put them together they will be starting over again. Bonding needs to be a one time thing - meeting and permanently living together, you shouldn’t separate them once you’ve put them together. There is absolutely no need to wait until the Meds are finished - you’ve put them together once, they’re presumably still in the same room so waiting until the meds are done isn’t going to make the slightest difference to catching something off the other

wel that’s the planned day because I have a whole day off to watch and observe

 

[Agashe]

If you’ve decided to wait then you can’t keep putting them together then separating when they go back to their cage. It’s stressful for them because each time they’re starting to work things out, you separate them. Each time they meet they have to start again from the beginning.

We’ve mentioned that they share the same airspace, and young pig is too young. And waiting is kind of negated if you keep putting them together anyway. Hope the bonding goes well.

I have so far only done it once and only planned to do it the one time before the actual bonding because I know it can be stressful to them,the vet told me to wait before all of that so I’m just waiting now till around Monday because meds will be done on the day I’m off anyways. I think the vet was just being cautious but Hazel seems to be very curious about J Rod now and is zooming around his cage and going up to JRods cage for a friendly chatter now and then,where before he would not do that,he’s also wheeking for food again when he originally stopped after Big Wig passed