Bonding babies with adult guinea pig

[cicmic]

Hello,

I have 2 guinea pigs, a 14 month old sow and a boar around 2 years old. Both lived alone their whole life, live separately atm too. I got the boar as his previous owners couldn't keep him, but was told he was a female and "she" was supposed to be housed with my sow. Later on I discovered he was male, so thankfully they have never been housed together. Now, I don't want either of them to spend the rest of their lives on their own. I have no experience with introducing guinea pigs and have read that it is a good thing to introduce a baby to older pig as adults will most likely accept the baby much better than an adult (although there is that teen phase that may make cause them to fight...), so my plan was to 2 babies of each gender and keep 2 boys and 2 girls.

Currently, there's a lady giving up 2 baby guinea pigs for adoption. They are both females. I have not planned to have a trio of sows, but if there is a good chance of success for them to bond I would definitely take them both. Are 2 babies with a 14 month old sow a bad idea or would it be better to just get 1?

Is it a good idea in the first place to get babies for my adult guinea pigs?

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,

I have 2 guinea pigs, a 14 month old sow and a boar around 2 years old. Both lived alone their whole life, live separately atm too. I got the boar as his previous owners couldn't keep him, but was told he was a female and "she" was supposed to be housed with my sow. Later on I discovered he was male, so thankfully they have never been housed together. Now, I don't want either of them to spend the rest of their lives on their own. I have no experience with introducing guinea pigs and have read that it is a good thing to introduce a baby to older pig as adults will most likely accept the baby much better than an adult (although there is that teen phase that may make cause them to fight...), so my plan was to 2 babies of each gender and keep 2 boys and 2 girls.

Currently, there's a lady giving up 2 baby guinea pigs for adoption. They are both females. I have not planned to have a trio of sows, but if there is a good chance of success for them to bond I would definitely take them both. Are 2 babies with a 14 month old sow a bad idea or would it be better to just get 1?

Is it a good idea in the first place to get babies for my adult guinea pigs?

Hi and welcome!

It is generally easier to bond two baby sows with an older one in my experience; the rejection rate is lower as your older sow is becoming head of a group and is taking a huge leap in status. However, it all depends on how good your sow is with other piggies. Many singles can be very insecure as they lack the social confidence and sometimes the necessary socialisation. They can also overreact (fear-aggression).
Ideally you allow the babies to live next to your sow for a few days so they can get to know each other through the bars. Unfortunately you will only know once you bond, and you can't do that in 5 minute meetings - once you commit, you have to sit it out even if the dominance is looking rough to you. You have to also brace yourself for babies being ever so vocal and dramatic.

Boars on the other hand work best in pairs. If you have access to an exotics vet with experience in guinea pig neutering or rodent operations, you could consider having your boar neutered. Otherwise try to find him a preferably submissive and not too dominant little baby friend.

Please take the time to read these guides here and follow the tips. You will hopefully find them helpful:
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics

Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)

Boars: A guide to successful companionship.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths And Facts

 

[Little Piglets]

A trio of sows shouldn't be an issue. You can even get the boar fixed and let him in with them.

With the older sow, she WILL nip at the pups for awhile IF they get too close, etc.. That's normal. It shouldn't last too long as they'll learn quickly that they are doing something wrong and will avoid the scenario. My guess is the 14 month old will be the immediate top-dog, and the two little ones will eventually squabble with each other a bit as they get older and settle which one is next in the hierarchy, but it should be minor for the most part.

I just ended up with some pups and they were intro'd to my sow herd. Each sow did some nips here and there, and pups quickly understood to avoid. The nips also seem to help teach them "do not try and nurse from me". By day 5, they were already eating side by side with the same sows, from their food dishes. If the sows are being cranky, the pups can run as fast as a mouse to get out of the way.

Also, as long as the cage is big enough and they have places to seek out to hide, you can try intros in her cage. She might be a tad grouchy at first if she hasn't been around anyone for awhile, but should hopefully settle or at least be curious.

Also, from what I've seen with both of my boars, they seem to really like pups

 

[cicmic]

Thank you for advices!

I took the two baby guinea pigs that I talked about in the first post. They were 21 days old when I got them, today are 24 days old. Currently they are in a pet store cage that is small, but they wil remain there for just 1 more day and they will go to a huge homemade cage with my older pig. I wanted to make sure that they are healthy before introducing them, and to make sure they are both females by my vet first.

However, there's a another question I have now. The babies were both with father and mother in the same cage until the moment they were given to me, and now are alone for the first time. They eat, they are scared, but not too much, will come out when we feed them and such. But they're rumble strutting a lot, like a lot. Sometimes every few minutes. They don't appear to be fighting, but I'm wondering if this is a normal behaviour? I find them too young to be having dominance issues, though i guess I might be wrong. They will make rumbling noises, lift one back leg and switch while rumbling too, push their butts into each other's face, short attempts of humping even... Sometimes after they stop and run off they will popcorn. Is this maybe just a play? They eat together without any problems, and always sleep cuddled,side by side, heads leaned onto each others butt. It's very cute really so it puzzles me whether this is a dominance issue? And it's never just one rumbling, they do the same thing at the same time, whether it's rumbling/butt lifting/feet lifting. So it is not just one bullying the other.

 

[Merab]

Don’t worry.
In a new environment piggies do the dominance behaviour as they settle down and get used to new sounds and smells.
Have you read the bonding threads to prepare for introducing them to the older piggy?

I hope it all goes well.
I bonded 2 baby girls with an older sow who had lost her cagemate. It went very smoothly and within a very short time I had a lovely trio of piggies.

One thing you said which rang alarm bells is that both babies were with father as well as mother. If that is so there is a real possibility that one or both are pregnant.
I’m not an expert on piggy pregnancy but there are excellent help threads and @Wiebke is an expert and can help you with this possibility

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for advices!

I took the two baby guinea pigs that I talked about in the first post. They were 21 days old when I got them, today are 24 days old. Currently they are in a pet store cage that is small, but they wil remain there for just 1 more day and they will go to a huge homemade cage with my older pig. I wanted to make sure that they are healthy before introducing them, and to make sure they are both females by my vet first.

However, there's a another question I have now. The babies were both with father and mother in the same cage until the moment they were given to me, and now are alone for the first time. They eat, they are scared, but not too much, will come out when we feed them and such. But they're rumble strutting a lot, like a lot. Sometimes every few minutes. They don't appear to be fighting, but I'm wondering if this is a normal behaviour? I find them too young to be having dominance issues, though i guess I might be wrong. They will make rumbling noises, lift one back leg and switch while rumbling too, push their butts into each other's face, short attempts of humping even... Sometimes after they stop and run off they will popcorn. Is this maybe just a play? They eat together without any problems, and always sleep cuddled,side by side, heads leaned onto each others butt. It's very cute really so it puzzles me whether this is a dominance issue? And it's never just one rumbling, they do the same thing at the same time, whether it's rumbling/butt lifting/feet lifting. So it is not just one bullying the other.

Hi!

Your babies are in the process of establishing a new group hierarchy. This is as the core of any guinea pig social behaviour from the moment they are weaned and in your case, separated. Please double-check the gender to make sure that they are both the same.
Sexing Guide

Have a read through this guide here. It shows you the various stages of the bonding process but also a number of social intactive behaviours and contains several videos, including one where two newly separated boys meet an uncle boar. It will hopefully help you to understand what it going on. But at the same time they are still babies that are only just weaned and that miss their mother and the support their elders very much.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/first-baby-days-a-video-and-picture-diary.162694/ (this guide will show you what your babies come from and now have to move on from)

Here are tips on how you can interact with them:
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig

Our full new owners guide collection of which the previously linked guides are part of and which you may find very helpful as they also contain boar and sow guides (you have not mentioned the gender of your babies): Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

I am ever so sorry for their mother. Back-to-back pregnancies really take it out of sows; and the risk of them dying young and painfully from birthing complications or overbreeding increases with every passing pregnancy. Sows come into season again within hours of giving birth. By the time the babies are weaned, the next lot of embryos will be big enough to make an impact on their mother's shrkinking bodily resources.

 

[cicmic]

Thanks for replies and helpful links, I have read most of them and it helps a lot.

I'm pretty sure the baby pigs I got are in fact male... Both... They were supposedly taken to the vet who has confirmed they were females (before I got them, taken by the previous owner). So, that messes up things for me. I've read in the links you, Wiebke, posted here and on multiple other threads that trio of males just don't work in like 90% of cases. Especially with these being 2 babies... They are rumble strutting less but still quite often. I think that what has reduced it is that one of them is more submissive. The more dominant one will always be the one starting rumblestrutting and the submissive one rarely replies with same reaction but mostly will popcorn or squeak softly. They still cuddle up to sleep together and seem very close. I have a big homemade cage ( 140 cm x 100 cm bottom floor with a 100 cm x 50 cm loft). The original plan, when I found out they are males, is to keep the more submissive one with my older male. I feel sad for the second one and just want what is best for both of them. Is it too much risk of bonding 2 year old male with two 5 week old babies? I know that problems may arise as babies get older as they hit puberty. I'm just hoping that my cage is big enough and that enough space will help with fighting not happening. If it's too much risk, of course I'll rehome the second one instead. What are your suggestions? If even them, being already bonded are best to be kept together, I would consider the option of rehoming the babies together too. Like I said I really want what is best for them too, not just my current piggies.

I share your worries about their mother, but there's not much I can do. The people that have the parents are somewhat new guinea pigs owners and don't know that much. I did point out that she may already be pregnant and that she will just keep getting pregnant. Even offered (being said that vet confirmed that babies are female), to take just one and that they keep the second one and put it with their female, and that I will have an extra cage (as I have a new big homemade cage where I planned to put 3 girls in) and I offered to give them that one for free so that they could keep the male alone there. They said they'll think about it, they have my contact but never reached me for that again... Now, although 2 males isn't what I hoped for, at least they won't have the chance to impregnate their mother...

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for replies and helpful links, I have read most of them and it helps a lot.

I'm pretty sure the baby pigs I got are in fact male... Both... They were supposedly taken to the vet who has confirmed they were females (before I got them, taken by the previous owner). So, that messes up things for me. I've read in the links you, Wiebke, posted here and on multiple other threads that trio of males just don't work in like 90% of cases. Especially with these being 2 babies... They are rumble strutting less but still quite often. I think that what has reduced it is that one of them is more submissive. The more dominant one will always be the one starting rumblestrutting and the submissive one rarely replies with same reaction but mostly will popcorn or squeak softly. They still cuddle up to sleep together and seem very close. I have a big homemade cage ( 140 cm x 100 cm bottom floor with a 100 cm x 50 cm loft). The original plan, when I found out they are males, is to keep the more submissive one with my older male. I feel sad for the second one and just want what is best for both of them. Is it too much risk of bonding 2 year old male with two 5 week old babies? I know that problems may arise as babies get older as they hit puberty. I'm just hoping that my cage is big enough and that enough space will help with fighting not happening. If it's too much risk, of course I'll rehome the second one instead. What are your suggestions? If even them, being already bonded are best to be kept together, I would consider the option of rehoming the babies together too. Like I said I really want what is best for them too, not just my current piggies.

I share your worries about their mother, but there's not much I can do. The people that have the parents are somewhat new guinea pigs owners and don't know that much. I did point out that she may already be pregnant and that she will just keep getting pregnant. Even offered (being said that vet confirmed that babies are female), to take just one and that they keep the second one and put it with their female, and that I will have an extra cage (as I have a new big homemade cage where I planned to put 3 girls in) and I offered to give them that one for free so that they could keep the male alone there. They said they'll think about it, they have my contact but never reached me for that again... Now, although 2 males isn't what I hoped for, at least they won't have the chance to impregnate their mother...

You can bond them, but have to have a plan B (next door companionship with interaction through the bars) in case the trio runs into trouble once the testicles start descending and the testosterone spikes start happening. You were right to get them out of there.

 

[Reenie]

Just read back your post and it looks like you have a male and a female housed separately and two baby boars? What about putting the 3 boys together, see who the older guy gets in best with and get the other one neutered, then he can go with your sow (after 6wks post op)?
Sorry if I've misunderstood your current set up.

 

[cicmic]

Wiebke, I'm afraid that my chances are too low for that to succeed. Maybe I'm wrong and should give them a chance but one of the babies seems so dominant already and they're just 5 weeks old. The other one is very laid back, which may change with puberty, but I get a feeling he would be a perfect match with my older pig. I could work out the plan B too, I would have extra cages ready and could also split the homemade one. So that could work as well. Knowing that pairs just do better, I'm also rethinking the option to rehome the dominant baby, if I can find him a good owner in the first place, who'd be willing to take care of him properly.

Reenie, you got my setup correctly. That sounds like an excellent idea but I really don't think that neutering of guinea pigs is something that is not done in my country yet. I would like that option the most though, so tomorrow I will ask my vet if they do it. If I can tell correctly from your signature, you got a working trio group of boars? What are they ages?

 

[Reenie]

Wiebke, I'm afraid that my chances are too low for that to succeed. Maybe I'm wrong and should give them a chance but one of the babies seems so dominant already and they're just 5 weeks old. The other one is very laid back, which may change with puberty, but I get a feeling he would be a perfect match with my older pig. I could work out the plan B too, I would have extra cages ready and could also split the homemade one. So that could work as well. Knowing that pairs just do better, I'm also rethinking the option to rehome the dominant baby, if I can find him a good owner in the first place, who'd be willing to take care of him properly.

Reenie, you got my setup correctly. That sounds like an excellent idea but I really don't think that neutering of guinea pigs is something that is not done in my country yet. I would like that option the most though, so tomorrow I will ask my vet if they do it. If I can tell correctly from your signature, you got a working trio group of boars? What are they ages?

I do have a working trio, and know that I am definitely the lucky excepton. They are just coming up to 2yrs now, so they have successfully got through the danger period, although I still have a plan b, I don't worry so much now.
I have theories about why my trio work (this is not scientific in any way). Firstly, personality. I have one boar, Little Dude, who basically stops the other two going too far. They have a huge cage (5x3 C&C with a loft), and they have been together since birth, so never had that bonding period.
Having said all that, they have still had some hairy times when I've had to divide the cage for a few hours to let them cool down, so it's not been plain sailing.

Here they are having a bit of a set to a few weeks ago. This was the worst they'd been for a while, and I really thought plan b would be needed, but they calmed down after I split off Groucho (the bigger one who was getting picked on in this) for an hour.

 

[cicmic]

Oh, wow. That was scary to watch, can't imagine being next to them and trying not to intervene. Must have been hard. Good thing that they are still doing fine though. I have had a mother and a daughter who were living without ever squabbling, like ever. No rumble strutting, no humping, they were always peaceful. Until one was sick and we had taken it separately to the vet, she was out of the cage for about 2h for a few days. After few days of the last visit I was woken up by horrible noise from the cage and they were on full on fight. Luckily I read a lot of articles beforehand so just threw a towel over them until they stopped. The mother had half of her lip sliced, it was a really bad cut. She ate well though and healed fine without having to see the vet. We cleaned the wound daily on our own for weeks though. After about a year they were introduced again and lived together peacefully for 1-2 years until the mother's passing. I suppose that the cause was taking one pig without the other... So I find it interesting that your splitting up pigs to cool down works.

 

[Reenie]

Oh, wow. That was scary to watch, can't imagine being next to them and trying not to intervene. Must have been hard. Good thing that they are still doing fine though. I have had a mother and a daughter who were living without ever squabbling, like ever. No rumble strutting, no humping, they were always peaceful. Until one was sick and we had taken it separately to the vet, she was out of the cage for about 2h for a few days. After few days of the last visit I was woken up by horrible noise from the cage and they were on full on fight. Luckily I read a lot of articles beforehand so just threw a towel over them until they stopped. The mother had half of her lip sliced, it was a really bad cut. She ate well though and healed fine without having to see the vet. We cleaned the wound daily on our own for weeks though. After about a year they were introduced again and lived together peacefully for 1-2 years until the mother's passing. I suppose that the cause was taking one pig without the other... So I find it interesting that your splitting up pigs to cool down works.

Despite the few times it's been like the videos, they've never injured each other - Chicco, the one who wasn't involved in the video, once had a small scratch on his nose, but I don't know how it happened, so I left well alone.
You'll notice in the second clip that when Little Dude is in the hay rack, he yawns at Groucho, which is a very strong warning (it's difficult to see because his back is to the camera) . That's the most aggressive I've ever seen any of them get. Also the fur ball only lasted a second, so I didn't have time to react before they stopped.
It was just really to let you see what to expect, even from a well bonded trio of boars..... Not a peaceful life lol.