Bonding blues :(

[CFP]

I have a four year old Abyssinian sow (Ruffles) who lost her older cage mate at the beginning of August past. That was the last of three sisters Ruffles had grown up with so I wanted to find her another sow for company. It took me about 3 weeks to find a sow from a reputable source - a 2 year old Argente. I then did a four week quarantine (a bit longer than usual because the new sow (Ivy) was so wild and I was treating Ruffles for a flare of mites she developed from the stress of losing her mate). I went through the usual procedures for introductions: neutral area, two of everything, no hideys. I didn't rush or interfere with the pigs - they did a bit of bum sniffing, chasing, rumble strutting, teeth chattering, chin raising etc. - it was mostly Ivy displaying all the behaviours. This went on for a bit longer than I usually have experienced but I watched for a couple of hours and left them to sort things out for another few hours while I striped down and scrubbed my 2x5 C&C cage with F10.
There was a bit more assertiveness (mostly Ivy) once I put them in the cage and I thought they would soon settle down. Ruffles is twice the size of Ivy but very soft natured and only defended herself when really pushed. To cut a long story short the barging and bickering from Ivy has continued but over the past week but things were beginning to look like they were starting to calm a little bit. Until yesterday - Ivy was a terror! She literally didn't stop all day, and was still at it at 2am this morning: continually herding Ruffles like a sheepdog, coming from one side, them the other; barging her rump, semi mounting, pecking her sides and face, rubble strutting and chattering almost non-stop, very obviously displaying her bum and barging with her back end, as well as constantly moving Ruffles' off her sleeping spot, food and the water bottle (there are two of each). She just wouldn't leave her alone, and poor Ruffles was getting really fed up and upset. Things seem a bit more subdued this morning, but Ivy is still kicking off a bit if I go to do anything like muck out, feed or check on Ruffles. I've been lucky to never have had any particularly rocky or lengthy introductions with any of my pigs until now. My worry is Ruffles will develop another flare of mites and she has had bouts of cystitis and hair loss when stressed in the past.
I read some of the forum info on the behaviour of sows and noticed it mentioned a sow's season can be exacerbated during a new introduction? Ivy has previously had one baby (accidental) and apparently was very poorly after her pregnancy. She is quite small for 2 years old but has a big attitude! She was living with another sow before so she has been with other pigs. When I got her, her owner told me if there was any problem to bring Ivy back and I could try another guinea pig, but I am loathe to start again. I feel sorry for Ruffles because she and her old cage mate were so close and they both had the same quiet, gentle, easy going characters. You wouldn't have known if either was in season. Has anyone any experience of a rocky start turning around? I know a week is not long, but how long do I let this go on for before deciding when to call time on it?
(Sorry for the lengthy post but I wanted to present all the details as clearly as possible).

 

[Siikibam]

When checking on them, so you deal with Ivy first? How does Ruffles seem in herself, is she still able to eat - i.e. Ivy doesn’t block/stop her from eating or drinking etc.

sometimes it can take a couple of weeks for the dominance to settle down once they’ve gone in their cage. I’d say maybe give them another week but I’m not as clued up on sow bonding.

These threads may also be of some help to you.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

Moody guinea pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[CFP]

Thanks for direction to the threads - I'd already read them several times over in my desperation to try and find anything that might ring a bell!
Things have been a bit less frantic today. It's possible I may unintentionally be dealing with Ruffles first as a matter of checking her over for bites although I have tried to ensure I am giving Ivy as much attention. Ivy seems overly reactive to any movement in the room and cage. She was friendlier (after she got over her initial wildness - she wasn't handled much before I got her) and more relaxed when she was alone in the smaller cage during quarantine. Now she is hyper. She does lie down at times but is quick to get up and strut around the cage rumbling even when Ruffles isn't near her. Ruffles is trying to avoid her and can get to the food and water bottles but I do think she is much quieter today. I'm even concerned that Ivy, although still continuing to assert herself, is a bit duller - I don't know if that's tiredness or stress. I have weighed them both and will repeat again at the end of the week to keep a check on things. Ruffles doesn't seem to be making any obvious challenge and is displaying more avoidance behaviour. She only really reacts if she can't get out of the way quick enough or she is just too fed up being pecked at and shoved off her spot. When they do have calmer periods they will sit and also eat within a foot or less of each other and will both lie down - small hope? I can honestly say in 40 years of keeping guinea pigs I have never experienced such a fractious introduction (and I know, it could be worse). They seemed to get the initial huff and puff over with in the neutral box and were both reasonably relaxed when I moved them to the cage but then things seemed to flare up again. I'm trying to see things from Ivy's point of view in case there is something else I am missing that's making her so reactive or insecure (the bigger size of Ruffles, the coat difference, the bigger cage?) - I really hope things settle but at this point in time I am not holding out much hope and that really disappoints me for both pigs. Unless there is some noticeable improvement this week, I don't think it would be fair to keep them together for much longer. Imagine being forced to live with someone you really don't like very much?

 

[Fantasimo]

I have two teenage boys, one hormonal, one not. Everything has settled down after lots of rumble strutting, but this morning my hormonal pig was just humping his brother like crazy and wouldn’t stop, so I put them out in their big indoor run with lots of hay and they quietened right down and sat next to each other being all nice and chill. So maybe putting them back into that neutral area when things are getting aggie might help, or some veggies to interrupt the tension?

I’m sure someone else will have better ideas though.

 

[Siikibam]

Is Ruffles displaying any signs at all of being bullied? Do you have two of everything when it comes to bottles, hides etc?

I really don’t know. I think girls’ relationships are more subtle than with boys. I’d say leave it a little longer then decide. You Also have to keep in mind that not all piggies are ‘cuddly’ with their cage mates. My boys, if pushed, can eat from one bowl, but the dominant will chase the other off eventually more often than not. If there are two bowls they’ll each from one each and swap over. The girls are the opposite and 8/10 will eat from the same bowl even if there’s two. And they both sleep under the bed together more often than. Not.

 

[CFP]

Well thankfully things have remained reasonably calm since Sunday. Ruffles has decided to pretty much ignore Ivy's behaviour and stick to the opposite end of the cage to her but they do both settle down at the same end from time to time during the day and will actually lie quite near each other, but not snuggling! Ivy still has brief moments of teeth chattering and rumble strutting if Ruffles gets too close or in her way but they are much better than on Saturday. I'm hoping that was just a snit that Ivy had to get out of her system and isn't her season.
Although there is still two of everything in the cage and no hideys yet, I have been making a point of now feeding their grass in one pile as they both get excited about it and seem to be too occupied gorbing to start bickering. I think Ivy is a bit ADHD as she never seems to switch off for long so I have been giving her more things to do in the cage and nibbly bits to occupy her. Even with her veggies (she is quite fussy, but coming round to trying more different types of vege now) she eats a bit of one vege then leaves it and nibbles a different bit of vege, then goes to Ruffles bowl, then back to her own, then back to eating the bit of vege she started with etc. I'm hoping with time Ruffles and Ivy will start to become more openly friendly towards each other. I get the impression when watching them that they would both like to but are still a bit hesitant due to the recent history of tension between them which hasn't quite been put behind them yet.
I did a quick search for "Argente" to see if there were any other forum members who kept this breed and interestingly, I came across an old post from a member who commented "One thing I did discover when I bred Argentes though, is that sows of this breed can be real bullies, and many I had, had to live on their own! " Although Ivy was living with another Argente sow when I got her, her previous owner told me that her raggy ears were caused by her daughter which he had to separate and keep in a cage on her own as she was such a madam. So maybe this breed is a bit less sociable/more dominant? One to one, Ivy can be affectionate but she is quick to let you know when she has had enough.

 

[Siikibam]

They may never be ‘friendly’ towards each other in the way you’d consider ‘normal’ but if they get along then it’s fine. Our boys get on along fine but aren’t cuddly or particularly close to each other if that makes sense. They can eat from the same pile/hay area but they won’t cuddle together or eat from the same bowl - unless they’re having lap time or there’s only the one bowl in the cage.

may I ask why they don’t have any hides yet? Piggies need somewhere they can hide so please can you think about getting them something soon. Even if it’s some boxes.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Definitely get some hideys in there. For piggies who are perhaps a little tense in their relationship hides will be essential so they can get out of each other’s sight line and get some time to themselves