Bonding boars - which is the way forward?

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GeorgesHuman

GeorgesHuman

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Hello all,

I have just got a new bouncing baby boar, Charlie, who is 8 weeks old.

I've also got two very large 3 year boars who were bonded when the eldest was around 5 months old and the youngest 3 months old. They have lived together and they're like brothers. Very close and loyal to each other with the occasional bicker :o

Charlie and the big boys accidentally met on the carpet free-ranging on his second day and there was lots of sniffing but they were all popcorning like mad.

Now, i'm unsure of what's best for the future in regards to the baby Charlie's wellbeing.

Option 1 would be to eventually move him in with the two big boars, but could this affect Elliot and Oscar's relationship? Their friendship is really beautiful to see and I wouldn't want anything to ever come between that or to change the way they feel about each other.

Option 2 would be to get Charlie a friend to live with. I was thinking maybe at the end of March i'll get him a rescue buddy. Would a baby be best or perhaps an older male?

Option 3 would be to leave Charlie living alone. He will be living in the same room as the other boars so be able to hear them and wheek at them and also have plenty of floor time with them, so plenty of socializing etc. My old boar, George, who died a few years back now was a single piggy, but had plenty of social time with my other two piggies Oscar and Elliot.

Thanks for all your help in advance. It's much appreciated ;)
 
Normally, we don't recommend bonding a third boy to a couple, but as they seem to like each other, it may actually work out and is in this case worth pursuing. You will have to see how things go, and how he will fit in once he hits the hormones.

If the bonding doesn't work out and you have to separate again, please find a new friend for Charlie, ideally an older (adult) boar rather soon, while he is still a baby and needs company most desperately. Once boars hit the big hormones at around 4 months old, they are their most difficult to bond. A good rescue is your best choice in that case. BARC in Barnsley or Cavy Corner in Doncaster are your best options in your area (see our recommended rescues locator).

Please make sure that the cage is cleaned (including furnishings) and rearranged when you put the boys back in after an intro on neutral ground. Wait until they have had their first nap together, as that is usually the most critical time.

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/...FAQ-Introducing-and-reintroducing-guinea-pigs
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?59233-Boar-Dating-Service-Wales (contains lots of tips, descriptions and some bonding videos)
 
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Thanks so much Wiebke for your helpful advice.

So, do you think I should move Charlie in with the older piggies in the next few weeks if they continue to get on during floortime? I've got a double tiered hutch, 6ft each floor so plenty of space to get away from each other if needed.

There is some general rumblestrutting and mounting, but they all follow each other round. I would adore for all three boys to live together but it terrifies me that Oscar and Elliot could fall out over the baby.

Could me moving Charlie in with the big pigs affect Oscar and Elliot's friendship at all?

Should I try the moving Charlie in with the big pigs first before I go and get him a new friend? I've seen a lovely gentle natured boar at a rescue centre perfect for boisterous, naughty Charlie!

Thanks again!
 
Wiebke has already said almost exactly what I would have done!

There is a possibility that introducing the little one could upset things with the two older ones but the fact the enjoy floor time together is a great start. The fact that your older two are well past their hormonal years means there is a much better chance of success but there is always a risk attached to these things. Boars are unpredictable and like to keep us on our toes :)

If you do get Charlie his own buddy then a big, older laid back boar would probably be the best bet so they can be a kind of Uncle pig to him. Another baby may well work but it wouldn't be guaranteed that they wouldn't fall out when they hit their hormonal teenage years at around the same time. An older, steady boar would make this much less likely.

Good luck whichever you choose :)
 
I would start bonding straight away as soon as you have several hours time in one go; this weekend wouldn't be a bad time, for instance! The younger Charlie is the easier he will be accepted. He NEEDS company now!

The problem with boars is that every single time you separate, you force them to start with the bonding right back in square one and basically prevent them in effect from working through the dominance protocol - it's like you crashing the computer halfway through a safety check and forcing them to do a complete re-boot with no data saved. Unlike you, the piggies have got the manual; they know what they are about!
All you have to do is to sit it out and only intervene if the humping is relentless for hours on end or if there are major signs of aggression; anything mild and medium has to be tolerated. Make sure that little Charlie has a small tunnel or a hay filled cardboard box with an entrance that is too small for your other big boys, so he can escape any unwanted attention.
First time bonders are always tempted to interfere far too much and separate at the first sign of dominance - DON'T! Only separate if there is an impending fight or a boy has clearly had enough. Generally, with baby boys humping is more of a problem than aggression.

Here is a description of dominance behaviours in ascending order of severity. http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?28949-Boars!-Simple-Dominance-Displays-or-Fighting
 
I agree with everything Wiebke has said. Its a rule I follow myself and have many happy duos and groups of males :)
 
Thanks for your replies. I would much rather move the baby in with my two older boars than get a new piggy, but won't they squash him? He's only tiny! Also, I think the baby has mites I discovered today, so I'll have to get that cleared up before any further boar bonding takes place. Charlie is being kept company with loads of human contact until he can live with other piggies!
 
The bigger boars won't squash him; babies are much more resilient than you think! Older boars are actually generally fairly gentle with youngsters; they won't hurt them.

You can still introduce him; just treat all three for mites, and the other two won't come down with them. Mites are opportunists; they hit whenever the immune system is lowered from stress or illness. If you treat promptly, they are just nuisance value.

Please understand that babies are desparate for company; the best thing to de-stress him is to settle him with a new "family" quickly.
 
No he will be fine, I have introduced many 6 week olds to my older boys and they can look after themselves. I often put a box small enough for them to get in but not the big boys so they have refuge if needed. I wouldn't wait till you have treat for mites as your wasting valuable time to get him settled with the older boys before he becomes a juvenile and the hormones hit home. I would treat them all for mites as he has had contact with them and just let them become friends. I understand your worries but if they want to be friends let them, human contact is not like piggy contact :)
 
Oh gosh, you've persuaded me! Would the best action plan be to let the boys all play together for as long as they need on the floor and then when they need to go back in the hutch, i'll put them in. Sooo nervous. I obviously don't want baby to be all sad on his own and if all three can live harmoniously, that will be fab! Does anyone with experience of bonding boars have positive stories? Will my older boys be gentle with him and let him off if he's being naughty? He's so full of mischief and i'm worried that he'll get on the older piggies nerves and come between them.
 
I would start in a morning and put them all together for floor time. Watch them for a while and if everything is ok clean the hutch out thoroughly. And try them together in the hutch, just keep an eye on them. Have 3 food bowls and somewhere for the baby to hide etc...

I have loads of stories and have a group of 7 males who live together happily. My friend breeds guinea pigs and one of the babies was a runt out the last litter and I had a single male so at 6 weeks he came to live with us. The size difference was huge but the baby went in and held his own and put the older piggy in his place and to this day he still is. He rules. Doesn't care when the other piggy tells him off, goes on regardless. Young piggies soon learn how far they can push and they settle into a routine.
 
Thanks for your reply. I'm also worried about my baby piggy's sex. I'm fairly certain he's a boy, he's got something that looks like a willy and he definately has two lumpy bits just at the sides of his willy which are almost certainly his testicles, but i've never seen testicles so developed in both my boys at Charlie's age. I suppose no two piggy is the same where their manhood is concerned!
 
Thanks Abi that would be great! I've only got a very blurry pic of his parts, sorry just one I took yesterday and I have no internet at home. I'm fairly certain he's a manpig.

 
I'll let you all know how the bonding goes. Charlie had a sniff round the big boys hutch earlier while they were out playing and he quite enjoyed it! He ate some of the big boys dinner and didn't want to come out! Oscar and Elliot saw him in there and Oscar had a nosy what Charlie was doing, but Elliot (the boss pig) didn't bat an eyelid! Here's to trio harmony!
 
It looks like a boy but to be sure hold him and put very gentle pressure above his bits, if its a boy his penis will pop out or start too :)
 
Hello kind piggy owners,
Thanks for all your help.
Well, the young whippersnapper Charlie moved in with Oscar and Elliot yesterday! He's tiny compared to them! I thoroughly cleaned their hutch with piggy-friendly disinfectant while all three had floor time together. It took me about two hours to clean the hutch!

I then let Oscar and Elliot back in the hutch and then helped baby Charlie in and Elliot (the boss pig) didn't bat an eyelid. He just went over to eat his hay! Oscar, however, was following the baby and trying to sniff him, but the baby just hid behind some logs I put in the hutch where the other piggies couldn't fit.

Last night when I went to bed the baby was upstairs in the wooden hut and this morning when I got up he was still there and Oscar was sat on top of the hut! Not in a menacing way, it's his usual sleeping place! I was really worried about the baby probably not have moved all night long, so I put breakfast down and he didn't move out of the hut. I picked him up and put him downstairs and he walked over to the breakfast bowls and ate some piggy mix. Yay! I tried to put the water bottle to him too but he didn't take any. I had to leave for work, so I left him downstairs with the big piggies.

Please tell me he'll soon get more comfortable in his new surroundings soon. In his old cage he was running around but a lonely solo pig. He must be just frightened of the new bigger pigs and his new huge home I suppose?
 
He'll find his feet soon! Just make sure that he has got a refuge on each level that the other two can't get into and some hay inside.

There is probably some dominance between the two bottom boars (Oscar and Charlie going on to make sure who's coming on top of each other. Elliott is not bothered as his position is secure.

Weigh baby daily for the first 2 weeks until you are sure that they are working out (that is about as long as the dominance can take). He's probably learn to drink soon from his two "uncles".
 
and I forgot to say, he's almost certainly a boy. His willy is still only little but it's there! He's been such a naughty, outgoing piggy and now he's met his match with the big piggies he's terrified!
 
Thanks Wiebke, you're like a guinea pig guru! I was surprised that Charlie stayed downstairs when I put him down for breakfast. He didn't join in the great big hay munch when the big ones eat hay as fast as they can from their hay rack, but I suppose that will come with time. I can't believe how much Elliot isn't bothered by him. Oscar keeps going up to him though and nuzzling under his chin, then rumblestrutting! If Oscar tries to mount Charlie, should I just leave them to it? I don't want naughty Oscar to crush Charlie's little bones. It's funny when Oscar rumblestrutts because Oscar is the size of a kitten, and Charlie is no bigger than a 3 year old childs hand! They're great fun to watch!
 
They soon learn. I second everything Wiebke has said, weighing is key to make sure everything is going ok between them, also a good habit to get into as allows you to see if anything is wrong before they show any symptoms :)
 
Thanks Degu :) I weighed him and he was 15 oz.

I just have another question. Me and my boyfriend are going away for a few days in January which is probably when Charlie when will be hitting his teenage years. I usually take Oscar and Elliot to my mums and they share a smallish (4 feet x 2 feet I think) cage there as the hutch is way too big to put in the car. I'm panicking a bit now because I don't think all three piggies would get on so well in a cage of that size, but there's no way I want to seperate Charlie from the others if they're getting on so well. Can anyone think of a temporary and cheap way I can house them at my mums which will be a big enough space for them to be able to all get along?
 
What about a foldaway play pen? Similar to what AbiS has posted but made out of fabric, you can get a large one, I have one for when I clean the boys out and for them to have a run around in during winter and brilliant :)
 
Thanks so much for your replies. All three boars were playing with a toilet roll tube stuffed with hay tonight. So cute!

I had thought about a baby's playpen. It would be ideal! I can easily try to get one for free through freecycle too, then when my partner and I go to stay in the caravan, the piggies can even come and stay in their playpen! Perfect!
 
You can also cable tie C&C grids together (except for the last two), so they fold up like an an accordeon during transport. That way, you can create any size pen or even a separate corner for a single boy if you run into trouble. Make sure you have a plastic underlay between the floor and any bedding!
 
Thanks for your replies. Great ideas! Where can I buy the c&c grids Wiebke? Are they available from a shop rather than online?
 
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