Bonding failed - Looking for advice.

[Hocktastic]

Hello there,

In June I sadly lost one of my piggies, so was left with a bereaved boy aged 4.5 years.

After three weeks, I got him a new buddy from a rescue who is aged 1.5 years.

However, I am having real trouble bonding them and it has now got to the point where I may have to return the new piggie to the rescue. I would appreciate advice if there is anymore I can do, or if I’ve reached the point that the new piggy needs to be returned.

The situation is that I have repeatedly tried to introduce the piggies, in a large room with no areas for them to get trapped, I have put two of all foods and have not interfered. The younger guinea pig chases, mounts, pins and nibbles at the older pig incessantly.

He regularly mounts the older piggy’s head pinning him to the ground while he humps him. (Sorry for being graphic).

I have been keeping them in cages side by side so that they can communicate with each other, but I have seen no improvement over three weeks.

The older piggy will chatter his teeth in clear distress, the younger piggy will retaliate with teeth chattering, but when the chattering stops, the young pig will start mounting and pinning again.

I have had them out for a number of full days (10 hours) to give them time to work through it but the younger piggy will not stop. The younger piggy will only have breaks from this behaviour to fall asleep but as soon as he wakes up again he starts.

My older pig is very unhappy with it all, I have easily bonded my older piggy using this method before and had no problems.

They have not had a full on fight yet but I feel it could be nearing this stage.

thanks for reading.

 

[Dilly's Piggies]

As you probably already know, the behaviour you're describing is totally normal, it can be like that for a long time after initially meeting. Providing no blood has been drawn and no scraps have occurred normally there's no reason for concern. But as your older pig is pretty much a senior I understand it's worrying to put him through the stress... All I can suggest is to give them another week maybe, see if things improve. As long as your older pig can eat, sleep and drink and isn't losing weight they should be just fine. But I've had this situation before and it resulted in the two boars living separated side by side for the rest of their lives (6 years) and they had supervised limited daily floor and garden time together, they were perfectly happy with that... Alternatively you can ask the rescue if they will help pair your older boar with a more suitable friend.

 

[Pigwhisperer]

Unfortunately, only giving them 10 hours together and then separating them means that you have been starting from scratch each and every time you have put them together, so they have never had a chance to get past that first stage.

Please read all of this guide as it will answer all your questions.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[oxtinamona]

Hello there,

In June I sadly lost one of my piggies, so was left with a bereaved boy aged 4.5 years.

After three weeks, I got him a new buddy from a rescue who is aged 1.5 years.

However, I am having real trouble bonding them and it has now got to the point where I may have to return the new piggie to the rescue. I would appreciate advice if there is anymore I can do, or if I’ve reached the point that the new piggy needs to be returned.

The situation is that I have repeatedly tried to introduce the piggies, in a large room with no areas for them to get trapped, I have put two of all foods and have not interfered. The younger guinea pig chases, mounts, pins and nibbles at the older pig incessantly.

He regularly mounts the older piggy’s head pinning him to the ground while he humps him. (Sorry for being graphic).

I have been keeping them in cages side by side so that they can communicate with each other, but I have seen no improvement over three weeks.

The older piggy will chatter his teeth in clear distress, the younger piggy will retaliate with teeth chattering, but when the chattering stops, the young pig will start mounting and pinning again.

I have had them out for a number of full days (10 hours) to give them time to work through it but the younger piggy will not stop. The younger piggy will only have breaks from this behaviour to fall asleep but as soon as he wakes up again he starts.

My older pig is very unhappy with it all, I have easily bonded my older piggy using this method before and had no problems.

They have not had a full on fight yet but I feel it could be nearing this stage.

thanks for reading.

As per above post. Behaviours you’re describing are completely normal. I had my share of failed bonding and none of them looked like this. Chasing, mounting, humping, mild teeth chattering, even ‘
Nosing off’ are completely normal and allow pigs to establish dominance. By the sound of it, the younger boat may be dominant since the older guy lets him mount him, but then again they’ve not been together long enough to fully sort it out. What you need to look out for is prolonged, loud teeth chattering, something snorting ( yup some pigs will snort), raising up on front paws, yawning to expose their teeth... these are signs of them getting ready to fight. Sometimes pigs will launch at each other, as I had successful bondings when that happened, as long as NO BLOOD is drawn... when they roll in what looks like a ball of fur, then you know it’s not meant to be x it’s hard to watch unfortunately and sometimes emotions take best of you, but if all they do is chasing, mounting and some humping with mild chattering then you will need to let them get on with it... sometimes submissive pig will make squealing noise that will rip your heart apart making it sound like they’re in tons of pain, however that is normal too and only shows other pig they are submitting( I think this mainly applies to sows, mind you, but you never know)...

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

I also agree with my previous posters. This is normal bonding and boar behaviour but as long as you cut short any bonding, your boys will never be able to work through the whole bonding process and have to start right back at the beginning again.

As hard as it is, please sit by and just let your boys get on with it.
You can leave them in the bonding pen overnight if you do not feel happy about transferring them into their joint cage, but you cannot separate them overnight. Ideally you conduct the bonding a free day.
Before the next bonding, please read these two guides here:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics (takes you through all stages of the bonding process and also contains a chapter on boar bonding pecularities)

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

All the best!

 

[Hocktastic]

Thank you so much for all the advice everyone! I just wanted to add (as a response mentioned it and I forgot to put this in my original post) that there was also yawning/ teeth displaying and what I would describe as loud chattering - is this still in the normal boar bonding behaviour range?

I spoke to the person I got the new piggy from and they recommended keeping them completely separate for a few weeks then reintroducing them and putting Vicks vapour rub on the old boar that is being dominated. I thought putting Vicks on my piggy sounded a bit cruel but is this a thing that is regularly done?

I was also wanting to ask, have any of you had success bonding two dominant piggies like my two?

Thanks again

 

[Dilly's Piggies]

Thank you so much for all the advice everyone! I just wanted to add (as a response mentioned it and I forgot to put this in my original post) that there was also yawning/ teeth displaying and what I would describe as loud chattering - is this still in the normal boar bonding behaviour range?

I spoke to the person I got the new piggy from and they recommended keeping them completely separate for a few weeks then reintroducing them and putting Vicks vapour rub on the old boar that is being dominated. I thought putting Vicks on my piggy sounded a bit cruel but is this a thing that is regularly done?

I was also wanting to ask, have any of you had success bonding two dominant piggies like my two?

Thanks again

Yes those behaviours are still normal, basically the only reason you should separate is if they actually fight, everything else is normal and there's still a chance the bonding can work out. As others said you should never separate pigs you're trying to bond (unless they've had a fight which means permanent separation), when you keep separating and putting back together it will only make things worse, they will have to restart the process over again and build up frustration, and it's not worth the hassle. Keep them together and don't worry about any behaviours unless they fight. I have had success bonding two boars that behaved like this, it just took some restraint and patience on my part.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for all the advice everyone! I just wanted to add (as a response mentioned it and I forgot to put this in my original post) that there was also yawning/ teeth displaying and what I would describe as loud chattering - is this still in the normal boar bonding behaviour range?

I spoke to the person I got the new piggy from and they recommended keeping them completely separate for a few weeks then reintroducing them and putting Vicks vapour rub on the old boar that is being dominated. I thought putting Vicks on my piggy sounded a bit cruel but is this a thing that is regularly done?

I was also wanting to ask, have any of you had success bonding two dominant piggies like my two?

Thanks again

Hi!

Vicks contains ingrients that are harmful to guinea pigs. It is an old and long debunked breeder trick - all it does is stress the piggies and delay the bonding process. It does not have any impact on the ultimate outcome. Guinea pigs have a much stronger sense of smell than humans. Do you think that you would fall in love with somebody when the first thing is a stink bomb exploding in your face?

Please read our bonding guide!