Bonding Help - please!

[piggl]

Hi, after my 1 year old boar had two failed bonds overnight with older pigs, I made the decision to get a new baby boar.
I was planning to wait until the weekend but we ended up at a pets at home incidentally.

I introduced them in a neutral space and my 1 year old has been CONSISTENTLY jumping/rumble strutting and chasing the poor baby. It’s like he’s way too over excited because when not pushing the baby around/humping it or chasing it, he’s running back and forth down the cage rumble strutting.

I shouldn’t have bought a baby today, that’s my mistake but i’ve done it now and i’m not sure what to do.

I’ve posted a youtube link, please help!
bonding trouble

 

[piggl]

I think the babies just about had enough, he’s started raising his head and sort of half nipping.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, after my 1 year old boar had two failed bonds overnight with older pigs, I made the decision to get a new baby boar.
I was planning to wait until the weekend but we ended up at a pets at home incidentally.

I introduced them in a neutral space and my 1 year old has been CONSISTENTLY jumping/rumble strutting and chasing the poor baby. It’s like he’s way too over excited because when not pushing the baby around/humping it or chasing it, he’s running back and forth down the cage rumble strutting.

I shouldn’t have bought a baby today, that’s my mistake but i’ve done it now and i’m not sure what to do.

I’ve posted a youtube link, please help!
bonding trouble

Hi

Please give the baby a refuge to escape that he cannot get into until until hormone rush is over, which can take one or two days with teenagers - it can also happen when boars are meeting sows that the gonads take over.

Please read the practical advice in our baby bonding chapter: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[piggl]

Hi

Please give the baby a refuge to escape that he cannot get into until until hormone rush is over, which can take one or two days with teenagers - it can also happen when boars are meeting sows that the gonads take over.

Please read the practical advice in our baby bonding chapter: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

If i put them through bar to bar interaction will his hormones calm down? Then I can reintroduce them in a day or two?

Baby now has access to a box, but i’m not totally sure if Reggie even knows he’s there, and I doubt the baby will come out of the box.

 

[Wiebke]

If i put them through bar to bar interaction will his hormones calm down? Then I can reintroduce them in a day or two?

Baby now has access to a box, but i’m not totally sure if Reggie even knows he’s there, and I doubt the baby will come out of the box.

His hormones should die down eventually. You have to see how the two boy react then but they will have to go through the whole bonding process again. Just leave the baby in the box and feed him close to it.

 

[piggl]

Babies new hidy hole, there is no way Reggie can get into, he’s trying to break it down by eating it but i’m hoping he shouldn’t be able to do enough damage.

He is getting frustrated though that he doesn’t have access to the baby. Will this cause his hormones to be messed up for longer?

 

[piggl]

His hormones should die down eventually. You have to see how the two boy react then but they will have to go through the whole bonding process again. Just leave the baby in the box and feed him close to it.

I'm not sure the hides going to work, he’s just spending his time trying to make a way into his area. Getting more and more frustrated.

If I put a bar between them for a day or two, can he still continue his hormone spike? I don’t want to remove them just for his hormones to skyrocket again when reintroduced.

 

[Wiebke]

I'm not sure the hides going to work, he’s just spending his time trying to make a way into his area. Getting more and more frustrated.

If I put a bar between them for a day or two, can he still continue his hormone spike? I don’t want to remove them just for his hormones to skyrocket again when reintroduced.

It should hopefully not be quite as bad. The first time is always worst.

 

[piggl]

It should hopefully not be quite as bad. The first time is always worst.

They are now through bars.

Can/should I attempt reintroduction Saturday around mid day?

 

[piggl]

It should hopefully not be quite as bad. The first time is always worst.

The new introduction started around an hour ago.
Initial acceptance has happened but Reggie keeps nipping the baby.

The babies not even moving, but if Reggie gets too close to it or the baby walks past him he lunges at him. Like when they lift their heads and like headbutt each other, it’s like that but he’s doing it for no reason.

I really don’t think Reggie likes the baby. Even when he’s just minding his own business but goes near Reggie he gets nipped/lunged at.

 

[Wiebke]

The new introduction started around an hour ago.
Initial acceptance has happened but Reggie keeps nipping the baby.

The babies not even moving, but if Reggie gets too close to it or the baby walks past him he lunges at him. Like when they lift their heads and like headbutt each other, it’s like that but he’s doing it for no reason.

I really don’t think Reggie likes the baby. Even when he’s just minding his own business but goes near Reggie he gets nipped/lunged at.

I think that Reggie's behaviour is still very much on the fear-aggressive side. He is obviously afraid of any other piggy.

 

[piggl]

I think that Reggie's behaviour is still very much on the fear-aggressive side. He is obviously afraid of any other piggy.

That’s weird, I was just reading through all the different bonding/single pig threads and thought fear-aggressive sounds very familiar for my Reggie.

What does this mean for Reggie, and his and babies bond?

 

[piggl]

I hope he can adjust to baby. The nippings not constant, as right now he’s able to be near baby without going for him, but when I wrote my first post he was nipping him anytime baby came near.

I think Reggie needs to get used to having someone around again, especially a little baby who follows his every move.

I’m going to leave them in this pen for a couple more hours, just to be sure.
In terms of their bond, how would I know when it’s become to much for Reggie/the both of them? Or in a simple way, when the bond has failed?

 

[Wiebke]

That’s weird, I was just reading through all the different bonding/single pig threads and thought fear-aggressive sounds very familiar for my Reggie.

What does this mean for Reggie, and his and babies bond?

He is basically afraid and insecure and masks it with over the top behaviour. I can't predict whether they can past it or whether the little one gets too fed up with his over the top insistence on respect for his personal sphere sooner or later. At the moment, there is no real aggression in it.

 

[piggl]

He is basically afraid and insecure and masks it with over the top behaviour. I can't predict whether they can past it or whether the little one gets too fed up with his over the top insistence on respect for his personal sphere sooner or later. At the moment, there is no real aggression in it.

Thank you.

Have/do pigs get over things like this?

Their bonding cage is currently set up in the living room. If i move them to their cage upstairs which is in my bedroom (Reggie’s been in there for months, so he feels safe there), they might feel more comfortable. I wonder if that might help?

He’s on edge, which isn’t helping

 

[piggl]

I have put two very open hides in their cage and set up a camera, so they can have some "alone-time". The nipping when baby pushes past him isnt so bad, but its when Reggie approaches baby and nips anyway, is what is making me worried.

Reggies currently napping under a hide while baby is hidden under a massive pile of hay. When Reggie wakes up, can his reaction to the baby still be counted as if they had "napped together"?

 

[piggl]

I have had my first submissive squeal from baby. Its hard to not over-react and run to babies rescue, but I have read alot that unless there is an instant dislike, adult boars should not hurt babies.

 

[Claire W]

I think it is a good sign that the baby has done a submissive squeak but I’m afraid that beyond that, I have no practical advise and will leave that to our bonding experts as I’ve never bonded boars before but I do hope Reggie accepts the baby. You’ve already had so much heartache I will be following this thread with interest x

 

[AidaB]

Thinking of you. Hope Reggie and baby are getting to know each other. You have been through a lot these last few months.

 

[piggl]

Thank you both! <3

They have now been moved into their cage as they had a nap much closer to each other. I am facetiming myself in order to keep an eye on them though, haha. Fingers crossed

 

[piggieminder]

Fingers crossed here too.

 

[Wheekallweek]

Hope they settle down soon!

 

[Wiebke]

Submissive is good - it means that they are building up a bond,

 

[fluffysal]

Fingers and paws crossed here

 

[piggl]

Submissive is good - it means that they are building up a bond,

I really don't know what to do, I am so stressed.

Bean hides a lot because every time he comes out he gets chased around the cage and rumble-strutted on by Reggie. But then sometimes they are fine sat next to each other eating hay and they shared their dinner together. But then suddenly Reggie wants to chase him around and around again.

Every single one of Reggies interaction with bean consist of rumble-strutting/chasing and often humping. As I mentioned they sometimes sit aside each other and eat normally but if bean comes near him or takes Reggies attention in any capacity, he is again chased/humped/climbed on.
I think beans just about had enough, he runs and runs and runs and even sometimes starts rumblestrutting/humping back, but its not often.

Even if we say Reggie is fear-aggressive, bean has not done anything but submit to him and look for a friend in him, but whenever they meet he starts his big macho man act and makes bean not want to go near him.

Should I surrender Bean back to the pets at home so he can find a real friend who doesnt chase him down and scare him all the time?

 

[Claire W]

Chasing is normal dominant behaviour and often looks worse than what it actually is. I can remember when I bonded baby Ena to Eliza, Eleanor and Erin and they would chase her out of the bed side of the hutch and she would end up sleeping alone underneath the hammock in the living part (I had outdoor piggies at the time) but we persevered and eventually ended up with a happy foursome x

 

[piggl]

Chasing is normal dominant behaviour and often looks worse than what it actually is. I can remember when I bonded baby Ena to Eliza, Eleanor and Erin and they would chase her out of the bed side of the hutch and she would end up sleeping alone underneath the hammock in the living part (I had outdoor piggies at the time) but we persevered and eventually ended up with a happy foursome x

But it is everytime he comes out of hiding, and he doesnt seem to be enjoying it.

 

[Wiebke]

I really don't know what to do, I am so stressed.

Bean hides a lot because every time he comes out he gets chased around the cage and rumble-strutted on by Reggie. But then sometimes they are fine sat next to each other eating hay and they shared their dinner together. But then suddenly Reggie wants to chase him around and around again.

Every single one of Reggies interaction with bean consist of rumble-strutting/chasing and often humping. As I mentioned they sometimes sit aside each other and eat normally but if bean comes near him or takes Reggies attention in any capacity, he is again chased/humped/climbed on.
I think beans just about had enough, he runs and runs and runs and even sometimes starts rumblestrutting/humping back, but its not often.

Even if we say Reggie is fear-aggressive, bean has not done anything but submit to him and look for a friend in him, but whenever they meet he starts his big macho man act and makes bean not want to go near him.

Should I surrender Bean back to the pets at home so he can find a real friend who doesnt chase him down and scare him all the time?

But it is everytime he comes out of hiding, and he doesnt seem to be enjoying it.

Hi

You can either give them a chance and see whether they can settle down together or you can call it a day but none of us can make the decision for you.
If you feel that the bonding is not working, then can you look at a living alongside solution of some sort?

 

[piggl]

Hi

You can either give them a chance and see whether they can settle down together or you can call it a day but none of us can make the decision for you.
If you feel that the bonding is not working, then can you look at a living alongside solution of some sort?

Surely it isnt fair to make bean live alone for the next 5-9 years, especially since he is only 7 weeks. Atleast it doesnt feel like that especially since hes enjoying following Reggies every move so much.

Can babies and adults have full fights? How would I know that they have finally had enough.

 

[piggl]

I have got some videos of their interactions. These were all taken in around 5-10 minutes.

This is the first time I have ever seen bean fight back. Nipping at Reggie and then Reggie retreating. Right after this video and I thought it was done, Reggie started sniffing/licking Beans ear and bean sat there and allowed it.
Bean fights back

In this clip bean comes into the bridge, Reggie starts his rumble strutting but ends up rumbling all the way to the other end of the cage
Bean enters bridge

This is 85% of their rumble strutting encounters. Reggie rumbles around him and then he rumbles away on his own.
Rumble-strutting around bean

This is them just hanging out. But again, if Reggie takes notice of Bean it all starts again.
acting normal around each other

I think Reggie might genuinely be the first boar to lose top pig status to a baby if he continues as he is. If Reggie does not calm down/stop in the next couple of hours I am going to remove them from each other.
Is it better to put Bean back so he can get a lifelong friend? I hate the thought of subjecting him to a life alone/through bars when he could have a cage-mate.