Bonding issue

[Thecabbagequeen]

I have three Guinea pigs, Cannoli, Twix, and my newest one Chili. Cannoli and Chili bonded almost immediately besides a little head butting to show dominance but they are perfect now, but Twix is chasing, biting and thrashing at her. This is causing Cannoli to attack Twix because she attacks Chili. Does anyone have any advice at all? I’m not sure what to do, I have Twix separated at the moment because when I have cannoli and Twix together alone now cannoli now chitters her teeth at her ever since she started attacking Chili.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please could you give us a lot more background to the situation. We can’t yet advise whether this is a normal hierarchy process during a brand new bonding (ie within the first two weeks) or whether they’ve been together for longer and the bond is actually failing.

How long have they been together?
Did you bond them properly in neutral territory?
How big is your cage? It needs to be 180x60cm for three sows
How old are they all?
How long have you had the first two before you tried to add in Chilli?
Have you checked they are definitely all sows?

Is she actually biting and breaking the skin/ causing injury?
Is she actually ‘attacking’ - ie rolling around in a fur ball fighting with her? (Such fights are less common in sows)
If so then the bond is never going to work and they will need to live separately permanently.

Nipping is what normally occurs. It lets the underpig feel the teeth but without injury, it is a gesture of power. This is not of concern and is part of normal bonding while they set up their hierarchy.

The fact is though that you can’t make piggies like each other. Adding a new piggy to a bonded pair on spec always comes with a risk of failure if they don’t want the new piggy with them. We do see cases where adding a new piggy disrupts/breaks the bond between the original two.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

 

[Thecabbagequeen]

Please could you give us a lot more background to the situation. We can’t yet advise whether this is a normal hierarchy process during a brand new bonding (ie within the first two weeks) or whether they’ve been together for longer and the bond is actually failing.

How long have they been together?
Did you bond them properly in neutral territory?
How big is your cage? It needs to be 180x60cm for three sows
How old are they all?
How long have you had the first two before you tried to add in Chilli?
Have you checked they are definitely all sows?

Is she actually biting and breaking the skin/ causing injury?
Is she actually ‘attacking’ - ie rolling around in a fur ball fighting with her? (Such fights are less common in sows)
If so then the bond is never going to work and they will need to live separately permanently.

Nipping is what normally occurs. It lets the underpig feel the teeth but without injury, it is a gesture of power. This is not of concern and is part of normal bonding while they set up their hierarchy.

The fact is though that you can’t make piggies like each other. Adding a new piggy to a bonded pair on spec always comes with a risk of failure if they don’t want the new piggy with them. We do see cases where adding a new piggy disrupts/breaks the bond between the original two.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

The cage is 40 inches by 20, but there are two levels inside as well as an outside bit that’s attached which I do not know the measurements of but it’s big enough to be to considered the size of a small starter pool for kids. I’ve had cannoli for around half a year and she was with my older pig pumpkin before she passed away, then I got Twix around 2 months ago. Twix and cannoli are half sisters so it makes sense why they bonded easier. I’ve had chili for around a week now, and I introduced them in a non territorial area and no matter what it ends up in Twix chasing her around. They don’t get into a ball like you described but Twix will chase her into a corner and keep chasing her until she gets on top of her, but I grab her before anything severe happens because Chili is only around 10 weeks old so I don’t want her to get badly hurt. I’m thinking about having Twix in a separate area but still being able to socialize and see the other piggies because she is now going against her sister too, but I’m not too sure on what to do (edit: cannoli and Twix are a little older than 7 months)

 

[Piggies&buns]

We do need to know the full measurements of the space they have constant access to.

A 20 by 40 inch cage isn’t big enough to be used by guinea pigs at all if they are ever shut into that space - the access to the outside area must be available to them at all times.
The smallest cage two piggies should be in is 48x24 inches (120x60cm) as a minimum welfare.
Three piggies need a minimum of 60x24 inches but ideally a cage is 70x24 inches is needed.
Being two levels does not count towards the cage size.

Cage Size Guide

It sounds as if Twix is the dominant and she is now reinforcing and reestablishing a new hierarchy now Chilli has been added. She may simply be making sure everybody knows she is in charge. It takes around two weeks for it to fully happen. They’ve only been together for a week so they are only half way through their process.
It’s important you don’t confuse what seems aggressive and attacking to us with what is actually perfectly normal to them.

Chasing, nipping and mounting (her trying to get on top of her) is a normal part of bonding. It is something they do when in season and during bonding.
They won’t hurt each other by mounting.

Twix and Cannoli being half sisters is actually not relevant to their bonding success. They have bonded purely because they are character compatible.

Please do read the green links I added into my previous reply, as well the guides below.
They fully explain the bonding process and normal behaviours you see during bonding.
They also explain when to become concerned about a bonding.

You need to be clear on what you are seeing - we can provide the tools to help you. Bonding can look a bit aggressive to us but to them it is normal and what they need to do. What you cannot do is intervene if they are actually carrying out normal behaviours because you will disrupt their ability to bond.

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Bonds In Trouble
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Thecabbagequeen]

Thank you for helping me out, I actually have some new cage set up stuff coming in the mail so I can make a better layout so their living space will be more suitable. (I’m getting rid of the two layer cage and turning the whole cage into a one lvl bigger setup) It’s all a little scary because I didn’t see any of this behavior with cannoli and pumpkin, or with Twix and cannoli. Should I wait to put Chili back into an area with both of them? Or should I try one on one with chili and Twix. Thank you so much and I will be reading the link!

 

[Piggies&buns]

If you want to try them all together again then put all three of them in neutral territory again with no hides, just a pile of hay. Leave them there for a few hours and if all is ok then move them back into the main cage together. They need to be able to form a bond between all three of them if they stand any chance.
They are a week into the process so you do need to give them time provided nobody is actually biting and fighting.

It’s only if the bond clearly fails and she clearly does not want to be with either of them that you may need to separate them permanently into a pair and a single
(In that case you would need one cage measuring ideally 60x24 inches (150x60cm) for the pair and a cage measuring a minimum of 48x24 inches (120x60cm) for the single).

Do you have three of every item in the cage? (Three hides, three bottles, three hay piles)
Also ensure all hides have multiple doors. Single exit hides should be avoided during this time as you don’t want a piggy to be trapped inside one by another.

Make sure to keep you with the routine and lifelong weekly weight checks to ensure everybody is eating plenty of hay.
Bonding is a stressful time for them.

Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[Thecabbagequeen]

Everything is communal as of now besides the hides which I have three of(they have more than one exit in them) I didn’t know that there needed to be three of everything else though but I'm glad I do now! I’m going to try again in the morning with the three of them and leave them be for a bit unless real Injury happens. I weigh them every week and I portion their food out to what they would need for their daily diets (I learned that the hard way when I got pumpkin because her previous owners over fed her to where she couldn’t walk properly so I’m on top of that bit) I will be getting more items and doing what is needed when I see the outcome. Thank you so much again.

 

[Thecabbagequeen]

If you want to try them all together again then put all three of them in neutral territory again with no hides, just a pile of hay. Leave them there for a few hours and if all is ok then move them back into the main cage together. They need to be able to form a bond between all three of them if they stand any chance.
They are a week into the process so you do need to give them time provided nobody is actually biting and fighting.

It’s only if the bond clearly fails and she clearly does not want to be with either of them that you may need to separate them permanently into a pair and a single
(In that case you would need one cage measuring ideally 60x24 inches (150x60cm) for the pair and a cage measuring a minimum of 48x24 inches (120x60cm) for the single).

Do you have three of every item in the cage? (Three hides, three bottles, three hay piles)
Also ensure all hides have multiple doors. Single exit hides should be avoided during this time as you don’t want a piggy to be trapped inside one by another.

Make sure to keep you with the routine and lifelong weekly weight checks to ensure everybody is eating plenty of hay.
Bonding is a stressful time for them.

Weight - Monitoring and Management

They are doing much better now, Twix is still chasing her about every little bit but it’s gotten alot more tame since yesterday. They have been in the cage together all day after having a 3 hr sesh in the neutral area. I figured I’d give a little update, tysm!

 

[Piggies&buns]

They are doing much better now, Twix is still chasing her about every little bit but it’s gotten alot more tame since yesterday. They have been in the cage together all day after having a 3 hr sesh in the neutral area. I figured I’d give a little update, tysm!

Chasing and dominance behaviours will continue during the full bonding period of two weeks. It is still normal to see it happen throughout the lives together.

I’m glad things have settled