Bonding problem, advice needed

[Domiles]

hello, my first forum posting...... we took in a pair of males who had been together in a previous home, the people no longer wanted them, I'll call them A and B for ease of explanation. Then two more males, also well bonded, desperately needed a home and we took them, I'll call them X and Y. My plan was to try to get them living as a happy family of four, I'm not 100% happy keeping pigs in twos because I've had experiences where one dies, leaving the other one pining so badly that it can also die while I frantically run round trying to find a lone new companion. I thought if I have four together, one dying won't matter so much!
So I put the cages a foot apart in my garage for 4 weeks so they could see and smell each other, then put them in the run on the grass but the pairs separated with a wire divider. After a couple of weeks of this, I removed the divider. What happens now is that A and X chase each other round every now and then trying to mate with each other which I assume is a dominating thing. Often, during this, they will turn to face each other, chins up, but there has never been biting or any injury. 70% of the time its all very peaceful in the run and I've seen the two 'chasing' males happily eating together, hanging out, relaxed, so this domination chasing mounting behaviour is not all the time at all. So my first question is: will they ever stop? (with rabbits, I've let them get on with it until they get bored of it and then they settle down and are good friends for ever more!)
But there's more - when all four are together A now chases B away, his best mate! Its as if he wants X for himself and doesn't want challenges from B who, up till now, was his long term cage mate. We still put them all back in their correct cages A and B in theirs, X and Y in theirs, over night. But when we do put them to bed, A and B always have a bit of a tussle for a few minutes before they settle down. Is this because A is still fired up from being in the run with X? And I've noticed B has a couple of bite marks on his rump which is why I'm now worried.
Will I have to just come to terms with never bonding the four or is there a way? It would be a shame because, as I say, most of the time its peaceful and nice to see them all out there.
To clarify, they do have plenty of boxes and shelters to hide in when they are out in the run.
Thank you very much for any advice you can offer.
Dom.

 

[Siikibam]

My first question is how old are they? The first thing to note is that you’d need A LOT of space to keep so many boys together. Usually having more than a pair together doesn’t work. And it’s also all about personalities. If they’re not matched nothing you do will change that.

A very important point is that piggies don’t do ‘play dates’, as you have done with them. Each time you separate and put them together, they have to go through the dominance/bonding/hierarchy dance again. This is stressful for them.

Going by what happens when you put them back, A and B’s bond is disturbed by you putting them with X and Y.

If A and X are facing off, I’m not sure that they would be happy living together. One needs to back down as you can’t have two dominant piggies together, it just wouldn’t work.

If I were you I would leave them in their current pairs. Unless you don’t mind running the risk of ending up with four separate pigs.

It is sad when one of a pair passes away, but there are ways to handle that situation and also get another piggy to live with them. Or they could live in a cage next to a pair and interact through the bars until you find them a friend.

More knowledgable people will be along later to answer you, but I really would leave them as they are.

 

[Wiebke]

hello, my first forum posting...... we took in a pair of males who had been together in a previous home, the people no longer wanted them, I'll call them A and B for ease of explanation. Then two more males, also well bonded, desperately needed a home and we took them, I'll call them X and Y. My plan was to try to get them living as a happy family of four, I'm not 100% happy keeping pigs in twos because I've had experiences where one dies, leaving the other one pining so badly that it can also die while I frantically run round trying to find a lone new companion. I thought if I have four together, one dying won't matter so much!
So I put the cages a foot apart in my garage for 4 weeks so they could see and smell each other, then put them in the run on the grass but the pairs separated with a wire divider. After a couple of weeks of this, I removed the divider. What happens now is that A and X chase each other round every now and then trying to mate with each other which I assume is a dominating thing. Often, during this, they will turn to face each other, chins up, but there has never been biting or any injury. 70% of the time its all very peaceful in the run and I've seen the two 'chasing' males happily eating together, hanging out, relaxed, so this domination chasing mounting behaviour is not all the time at all. So my first question is: will they ever stop? (with rabbits, I've let them get on with it until they get bored of it and then they settle down and are good friends for ever more!)
But there's more - when all four are together A now chases B away, his best mate! Its as if he wants X for himself and doesn't want challenges from B who, up till now, was his long term cage mate. We still put them all back in their correct cages A and B in theirs, X and Y in theirs, over night. But when we do put them to bed, A and B always have a bit of a tussle for a few minutes before they settle down. Is this because A is still fired up from being in the run with X? And I've noticed B has a couple of bite marks on his rump which is why I'm now worried.
Will I have to just come to terms with never bonding the four or is there a way? It would be a shame because, as I say, most of the time its peaceful and nice to see them all out there.
To clarify, they do have plenty of boxes and shelters to hide in when they are out in the run.
Thank you very much for any advice you can offer.
Dom.

Hi and welcome!

Boars are best left in pairs, especially if they are already stably bonded. Trios and quartets are the most unstable combinations possible even under the best conditions and pretty much a surefire recipe for failure the more sub-adults are involved.
You can keep the pairs next to each other without problems, but please don't risk ending up with four single boars at the very worst or more likely with two singles and one pair, which is the most common outcome in our forum experience.

Please be aware that guinea pigs don't do 'play dates'. For guinea pigs of any gender or combination, every short meeting is a full-on aborted bonding session - for them there is NO fun and lots of frustration at the end of it as with every meeting they have to start right at the beginning again and will never get to properly work through the whole complex bonding process.

Please take the time to read the links below. You will find them very helpful and informative:
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[VickiA]

The best advice we can give is to keep your 2 bonded pairs as bonded pairs. A quad is almost impossible to achieve.

 

[BatWing]

hello, my first forum posting...... we took in a pair of males who had been together in a previous home, the people no longer wanted them, I'll call them A and B for ease of explanation. Then two more males, also well bonded, desperately needed a home and we took them, I'll call them X and Y. My plan was to try to get them living as a happy family of four, I'm not 100% happy keeping pigs in twos because I've had experiences where one dies, leaving the other one pining so badly that it can also die while I frantically run round trying to find a lone new companion. I thought if I have four together, one dying won't matter so much!
So I put the cages a foot apart in my garage for 4 weeks so they could see and smell each other, then put them in the run on the grass but the pairs separated with a wire divider. After a couple of weeks of this, I removed the divider. What happens now is that A and X chase each other round every now and then trying to mate with each other which I assume is a dominating thing. Often, during this, they will turn to face each other, chins up, but there has never been biting or any injury. 70% of the time its all very peaceful in the run and I've seen the two 'chasing' males happily eating together, hanging out, relaxed, so this domination chasing mounting behaviour is not all the time at all. So my first question is: will they ever stop? (with rabbits, I've let them get on with it until they get bored of it and then they settle down and are good friends for ever more!)
But there's more - when all four are together A now chases B away, his best mate! Its as if he wants X for himself and doesn't want challenges from B who, up till now, was his long term cage mate. We still put them all back in their correct cages A and B in theirs, X and Y in theirs, over night. But when we do put them to bed, A and B always have a bit of a tussle for a few minutes before they settle down. Is this because A is still fired up from being in the run with X? And I've noticed B has a couple of bite marks on his rump which is why I'm now worried.
Will I have to just come to terms with never bonding the four or is there a way? It would be a shame because, as I say, most of the time its peaceful and nice to see them all out there.
To clarify, they do have plenty of boxes and shelters to hide in when they are out in the run.
Thank you very much for any advice you can offer.
Dom.

I have always read that this is almost impossible to achieve. You can have two boys together or you might conceivably be able to have an entire heard of a dozen or more together IF you have a whole room or an out-building to keep them in. But three or four together almost never works--except, very rarely, if they are all senior pigs--and trying to get them together often breaks the bonds between the original pairs. We also have four boys and I would love, love, love to be able to keep them all together. But without exception, every source I find says not to try it, unless you are willing to risk having to split all four of them up from each other.

Happily though, all four of ours really love interacting with each other from different sides of the grid dividers. Some of them can talk to each other and even touch through the grids of their cages. Then we also give them floor time in a room divided with grids so they can all interact through the grids at the same time and they luuuuvvvv that. But I've made my peace that they aren't going to all live together in the same cage.

 

[Domiles]

Thank you for all the replies everybody. I have divided the run with a mesh divider and we have had no more trouble. As with Batwing's experience, I find they'll 'chat' through the mesh. We are resigned to keeping the pairs apart now, its no extra hassle really. Thanks again for all the info and valuable experience.