Bonding sows 5 months and 8 weeks

DanL

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Hi all, first post here and a little daunted with all the information so I hope this post is ok! :)

We adopted 2 sows earlier this year, they are 5 months old. As they settled in, Fidget quickly asserted dominance and Willow submitted. They've been happy together so far but I had noticed they were spending more and more time apart. They share a very large two storey hutch and for the most part they seem to have settled to a floor each with some crossover. Willow generally sleeps upstairs and Fidget downstairs.

We enjoyed having them both so much that we started to think about adding to the family. This finally happened last weekend when we adopted two more sows, both 8 weeks old.

We also have a single level indoor hutch, so the new arrivals (Bean and Scooby) went straight into this and spent the first few days settling in with very little interaction from us. They slowly but surely began to emerge. No signs that either were trying to assert dominance, they both seem very comfortable with each other and always by each others side.

On day 3, I tentatively started the bonding process. Being a complete newbie to this I did some research and started with swapping some items from each hutch. A few hours later I felt it would be ok to introduce both sets in a neutral pen in the garden. This initially went ok, Fidget (Dominant) seemed very passive, lots of sniffing and eventually lay down next to both the new arrivals. Willow (not dominant) was another story .. she has always been a bit of a diva and by far the most vocal and attention seeking of the two. She checked out both new arrivals and it wasn't long before she was exhibiting negative behaviours, such as lunging and nipping at them. I found this quite frightening to be honest, and in my inexperience quickly ended the bonding session.

We tried again the next day and things were improved, all of them happily milling around munching on the grass and it was an absolute delight to see one of the newbies popcorning away. However the lunging and nipping still occurred periodically and I also noticed that Fidget and Willow were no longer getting along quite as well, it seemed to me as if Willow was trying to assert herself as the dominant one, which was totally unexpected! (although I now understand this is totally normal with new arrivals).

The weather sadly dipped over the last few days, so we tried to continue bonding periodically in our indoor hutch. We started this by allowing the older ones in on their own to check the place out, then added the newbies back in. Initially there was excitement again, all looked happy and lots of popcorning. However it quickly changed and both older pigs started to intimidate the younger ones. This wasn't too bad with Fidget (dominant) but Willow took it too far, chasing and cornering the newbies to the point I felt the need to intervene. Perhaps I should let it play out? The squeals from the young ones scare the life out of me though.

During this time, both Fidget and Willow started to face off and it was clear they were trying to sort out dominance between themselves again. To my surprise Fidget seemed to submit and she went and sat next to the two newbies at the far end of the hutch, wiggling her hips as she sat. Things pretty much settled down again, however Willow still couldn't seem to stop herself lunging at the newbies who were by now squealing whenever she went anywhere near them ... I ended the session, probably in more distress myself than the actual pigs!

Just not sure where to go from here .. should I carry on as we are or take a step back and do things differently? Have I gone to quickly or should I simply not intervene when things kick off?

Apologies for this long rambling initial post. Really keen for any advice that can be offered.
 
Welcome to the forum.

It’s best to never put piggies into the cage of other piggies. Bonding needs to be done in neutral territory - you can to use a kitchen or bathroom floor as a neutral territory
The squealing from the babies will be submission squealing, sounds dramatic to us but is very normal – the babies are saying that they are no threat.
Chasing and nipping (its a gesture of power but does not break the skin) is also normal but if it goes too far can be concerning. The bonding guide I’ve linked in below will be useful to you particularly the section specific to sow bondings.

Any on spec bonding does come with a risk of failure so it’s best to hope for the best but have a plan that they may need to stay as two separate pairs.

If things do work out, then it takes two weeks of living together for them to fully sort out a hierarchy so during this time you will see lots of dominance. Ensure the cage is big enough for four - that is ideally 220x60cm on a single level but 180x60cm at the smallest. Upper levels don’t count towards the cage size as they are ground roaming animals.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
 
Hi and welcome

:agr: with @Piggies&buns comprehensive answer.

Please take the time to read the guide links.

Lunging is a defensive fear-based behaviour that is a strongly worded 'stay away from me'.

If it keeps on happening, it can mean that acceptance has not happened and the bonding has failed. Once a piggy has made up their mind that they don't want others to be part of their group, they are not going to change their opinion, unfortunately.
 
Many thanks @Piggies&buns and @Wiebke for your responses.

This afternoon I assembled the outdoor pen inside, scattered a bit of hay and veggies and gave it another go. This was much better, virtually no issues over the course of an hour other than a couple of isolated nippings that I am sure was more nervous squeals from the babies. Certainly no lunging but lots of sniffing which i'll also take as a positive. I'll try this setup again tomorrow and see what happens, hopefully this is a positive step in the right direction.

Thanks for the links too. Very much appreciated.
 
Generally, bonding is a one time thing and if you separate them after introduction then you stop the process meaning they have to start again when you put them back together and each time they dont get to ever really sort out their hierarchy - bonding is stressful so you dont want to do it often. Its a good idea to leave them in the bonding pen for several hours/overnight if necessary to get through the dominance stages. If all goes well, you then clean out the cage they are to live in and transfer them to it all in one go. It then takes two weeks of living together permanently for them to fully form their relationship.
Bonding very fear aggressive piggies can mean you need to take a slower approach though.
 
I think if you’ve decided to bond them then you need to leave them together. Separating each time interrupts their sorting out the hierarchy. You can leave them in the bonding area overnight if you want. But I wouldn’t separate them and try again tomorrow.

Make sure you thoroughly clean the hutch before you put them back in. Rearrange it as well, make sure all hides have two exits and have at least two hay areas and 4 bottles.
 
Ah ... I've really misunderstood this process then. Before I discovered this forum I was following this: How to introduce guinea pigs .. it says 10-15 minute visits to begin with and to gradually build up from there in stages, which we have been doing. I obviously value and trust your opinions far more though, this place seems very knowledgeable!

Tomorrows plan will be to put them back together in the bonding pen and let them spend the day together and a decision will be made from there. I'd obviously love for them to bond and live together, but if they don't then we'll have two setups, that won't be an issue.

Thanks again for the advice and for humouring this novice.
 
Really hope it goes well! 🤞 Sounds like you’re all prepared for plan b though! :)
Be good girls!

Sadly that’s really bad advice for bonding them face to face, it’s very confusing for these pigs to try and get to know each other and sort out group dynamics if it’s done that drawn out way. Great you’re on here now, there’s such brilliant advice! :D
:wel: to the forum!
 
So far this morning, we've had 2.5 hours of success, all seem to be getting on fine with absolutely no issues at all! Fingers are now firmly crossed we can move to the next stage this afternoon.

I've thoroughly cleaned out the hutch I hope they are going to share. As it has two levels I am tempted to remove the stairs so they cannot go up, purely as there is a hidey section at the top with only one entrance/exit. Does this sound sensible? It's a large doorway, but still only one way in/out.
 
So far this morning, we've had 2.5 hours of success, all seem to be getting on fine with absolutely no issues at all! Fingers are now firmly crossed we can move to the next stage this afternoon.

I've thoroughly cleaned out the hutch I hope they are going to share. As it has two levels I am tempted to remove the stairs so they cannot go up, purely as there is a hidey section at the top with only one entrance/exit. Does this sound sensible? It's a large doorway, but still only one way in/out.

Is the cage big enough on the single level - a 6ft hutch is the minimum for four sows?
If they are getting on well enough to move, then it may not matter if they can still go upstairs. The only thing is piggies are not natural climbers so the little ones may not be willing initially to use it anyway
Can you cut another hole in the bedroom divider?
I have actually removed my bedroom section divider from my hutch altogether but I have a boar pair.
 
Is the cage big enough on the single level - a 6ft hutch is the minimum for four sows?
Can you cut another hole in the bedroom divider?
I have actually removed my bedroom section divider from my hutch altogether but I have a boar pair.
It's a 6ft hutch (duly noted we will need to upgrade at some point). I can't really cut another hole as its already half the width of floor space and if I remove the divider there would be a drop to the lower level.
 
It's a 6ft hutch (duly noted we will need to upgrade at some point). I can't really cut another hole as its already half the width of floor space and if I remove the divider there would be a drop to the lower level.

Ok. Given hutch designs vary, it was worth considering!
You cant buy bigger than 6ft commercially, but it does meet size requirements so they don’t need bigger.

If you’d feel happier with them being all on one level, then stopping access to the ramp is fine to do but, and more so with more territorial boars, you dont want to mess about with territories often. Therefore allowing them access to the whole hutch from the beginning is ok.
 
Ok. Given hutch designs vary, it was worth considering!
You cant buy bigger than 6ft commercially, but it does meet size requirements so they don’t need bigger.

If you’d feel happier with them being all on one level, then stopping access to the ramp is fine to do but, and more so with more territorial boars, you dont want to mess about with territories often. Therefore allowing them access to the whole hutch from the beginning is ok.
I think I'll put the ramp back in. Thanks again for this great advice. I shall report back later this afternoon with some photos and hopefully some good news!
 
So far so good! They’ve been hutch-mates since 1pm and all seems to be going well!

Here are a few photos of them in the bonding pen. I set this up outside and after a while the wind kicked up enough to start blowing the hay around. I ended up pegging old towels to the pen which helped both the wind problem and their confidence.

I’m trying to leave them to it in the hutch and not get close so those photos aren’t great but hopefully you can see they appear happy. My main worry (Willow) has chosen to sit next to a tunnel with one of the newbies inside and now appears to be napping next to her! that’s got to be good.
 

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Just caught up with your thread and I,too, am hoping things are still going well.
 
So far all appears good. I spent most of yesterday in the vicinity of their hutch and behaviour seemed normal, they are clearly sorting out the hierarchy but nothing untoward occurred. Leaving them overnight was slightly nerve wracking but I needn't have worried as they appear fine this morning. They were in pairs on different levels when I checked on them with the older pigs paired up with a younger one, so cute! All shared their morning veggies and seem happy to sit next to each other. Early days, but I am very happy and very relieved!

Once again, I am so glad I found this forum. Without it I'd have continued trying to bond with my original guide and it probably wouldn't have worked out. Thank you all very much :)
 
Just a quick update a week and a half on. The hierarchy sorting appears to have settled down and they all seem to get on very well.

Fidget (the brown/white one) was the dominant of the original pair and still appears to be the dominant of the new group… all in a very passive way as they seem fine together.

I consider this a success! :-)

Here’s a quick photo of them all together on the grass just now :-)
 

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Just a quick update a week and a half on. The hierarchy sorting appears to have settled down and they all seem to get on very well.

Fidget (the brown/white one) was the dominant of the original pair and still appears to be the dominant of the new group… all in a very passive way as they seem fine together.

I consider this a success! :-)

Here’s a quick photo of them all together on the grass just now :-)
Great news! :D So pleased it all worked out and they’re getting on so well, thanks for the update too!
They look like they’re hatching a piggy plan there! :)):wub:
 
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