Bonding Trouble And Separation

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Carol D

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Hi, I am a new owner of two sow piggies that are about 3 months old. Buttercup was a gift for my daughter's birthday and was living as a single piggie for about two weeks. She was not adjusting well to living alone so we ended up getting Peanut who is a couple of weeks younger than Buttercup. When we first brought Peanut home we kept them separate of each other with a divider in between them in the same cage. We did this for about 2 days and then introduced them together without the divider. They had one little clash in the first instance of meeting each other but after that it appeared as if they were doing OK with only normal dominance issues between them. It is now about 2 months that they have been together in the same cage but this behavior is still occurring. Buttercup has been chasing Peanut and following her everywhere. Pushing her out of hideys and inhibiting Peanut being able to eat. Buttercup constantly rumble struts and recently has started to lunge at Peanut. Even despite all of this Peanut will still not back down to Buttercup and at times challenges her. I have separated them tonight because Buttercup will not let Peanut have any peace and will make her stay in the corners of the cage at night. Peanut also has become very skittish and reacts badly even when you just call her. Also, both Peanut and Buttercup spend a large amount of their time in their Hideys during the day. I never see them interact as other normal piggies do. I am so confused about what to do. Is separation the right thing? Am I doing something more harmful to them by doing it? Is this behavior normal for two piggies that have been together about two months? It makes me so sad to see what has been happening. I just want them to be happy and I am trying everything in the world to do this for them. If someone could give me some advice about this situation I would be SO GREATFUL.
 
Welcome to the forum and I’m sorry to hear your piggies are having problems.

two piggies have to be character compatibility and mutual liking be able to form a bond. if you bought both piggies from a shop, then there is no way to know whether they would be compatible and unfortunately there is going to be the risk that they won’t be and they won’t be able to live together.

if they are both wanting to be dominant and one is being stopped from eating, it sounds as if things won’t work out between them and permanent separation is going to be the ultimate result. If this happens, then they both need a cage of 120cm x60cm and the two cages will need to be next to each other so they can interact through the bars.

if, now you’ve separated them, they both seem happier in separate cages, then that is a definite sign their relationship isn’t working. I’ll add in a guide below which explains.

Bonds In Trouble
 
Carol D said:
Hi, I am a new owner of two sow piggies that are about 3 months old. Buttercup was a gift for my daughter's birthday and was living as a single piggie for about two weeks. She was not adjusting well to living alone so we ended up getting Peanut who is a couple of weeks younger than Buttercup. When we first brought Peanut home we kept them separate of each other with a divider in between them in the same cage. We did this for about 2 days and then introduced them together without the divider. They had one little clash in the first instance of meeting each other but after that it appeared as if they were doing OK with only normal dominance issues between them. It is now about 2 months that they have been together in the same cage but this behavior is still occurring. Buttercup has been chasing Peanut and following her everywhere. Pushing her out of hideys and inhibiting Peanut being able to eat. Buttercup constantly rumble struts and recently has started to lunge at Peanut. Even despite all of this Peanut will still not back down to Buttercup and at times challenges her. I have separated them tonight because Buttercup will not let Peanut have any peace and will make her stay in the corners of the cage at night. Peanut also has become very skittish and reacts badly even when you just call her. Also, both Peanut and Buttercup spend a large amount of their time in their Hideys during the day. I never see them interact as other normal piggies do. I am so confused about what to do. Is separation the right thing? Am I doing something more harmful to them by doing it? Is this behavior normal for two piggies that have been together about two months? It makes me so sad to see what has been happening. I just want them to be happy and I am trying everything in the world to do this for them. If someone could give me some advice about this situation I would be SO GREATFUL.
Click to expand...

Hi!

Please take the time to read the guide link in the previous post; this one here may also help you work out what is going on: Moody guinea pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

While guinea pigs are social animals unfortunately - rather like with humans in arranged marriages - it all depends on the personality match and mutual liking whether a bond is going to success, unless the piggies are allowed to choose each other. If you introduce a candidate of your own choice, you always have to plan for the case that a bond may not work out at any age and in any combination. :(
 
Thank You for getting back to me. Your input is greatly appreciated. I have a couple other questions in regard to this situation. If I thoroughly clean the cage that they are using now, so that there is no scent of either piggie in it and then return the two together again, will this possibly solve the problem. Could this be a territorial problem. Buttercup was in this cage for about a week prior to getting Peanut. I did have an issue of the two of them having a problem with their hideys. Peanut and Buttercup both wanted the same one, but this hidey did have Buttercup's scent on it from her using it before we got Peanut. To help solve that problem I bought two new hideys and put them next to each other in the cage. After doing this there was no more problems with this. Also, the cage I am using right now is 120cmx60cm but that is for the two of them together. At this point in time with the divider each one has 60cmx30cm each. I do have another cage that 75x50 but the problem is that with this one Peanut and Buttercup will not be able to see each other plus be next to each other because I do not have the room to do this. The other cage would be about 12 feet away from the one they are in now. Also, they both are silent so there would be nothing from them that they can hear each other. Another question. I am sorry for bombarding you will my problems. Both Peanut and Buttercup have no interest in any chewy things or toys. I have quite a collection of them and not one interests them. Could this be a sign of a problem?
 
While putting a new piggy into an existing piggy’s cage without introducing them on neutral territory first will cause a problem (it will be seen as a territory invasion), if the two don’t like each other and don’t have compatibility, then cleaning the cage down now isn’t going to make any difference. They still won’t like each other.

you can’t split a 120cm cage in half, each half is far too small (far below minimum welfare needs) so you need to find an alternative.
For two sows who are bonded and living together, the minimum cage size is 120cm x 60cm, but bigger is better.
However,, if their bond isn’t functioning and they need to live separately, then each piggy will need their own cage of 120x60, and the two cages need to be right next to each other (not 12 feet away). Communication is also via scent. Your 75x50 cage is not suitable to use at all anyway so you’re going to need to get another 120cm cage.

chew toys arent important, this is not a sign of anything. Most piggies arent interested in toys.
 
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I want to thank everyone for their responses and help. I need more unfortunately. Two days ago I separated Peanut and Buttercup. During this time Buttercup who has always been silent started wheeking like crazy. I don't understand why all of a sudden she would do this. Peanut who was in a separate cage would not come out of her hidey and had no interest in her hay and other foods. I probably made a huge mistake, but when I saw how she and Buttercup were reacting I went and put Peanut back into the original cage that she was sharing with Buttercup. What a nightmare that turned out to be. Buttercup was chasing Peanut around the cage and poor Peanut was jumping like crazy trying to get away from her. After this I separated them both again for the night. In the morning I saw Peanut was still listless. I felt so sorry for her and wanted to do something. I then went ahead and put Peanut back in the cage with Buttercup with a divider between them. When they came face to face they both were rumble strutting. This is behavior that usually has been foreign to Peanut. She has always been the one that has been pursued aggressively by Buttercup. Other than this it seemed OK. Both of them took an interest in their food and would come out from their hideys for awhile. The next day I took the two of them out to have some free time outside of their cage. Another mistake! The both were rumble strutting again, mounting each other and chasing each other around. I quickly separated them and figured I would just give each of them free time on their own. When Buttercup realized she was not with Peanut she again started wheeking incessantly again. I feel so horrible because of all the turmoil I have put the both of them through in this short time. At this point in time I am TOTALLY lost. I have read that getting an older guinea pig might help the situation but there is no way I can do this. I just don't have the room anywhere in my house for all these cages. There is absolutely nowhere to put them. Sometimes I think it may be better to let them find new homes. I really don't know what to do. Please help!
 
What you cannot do is put a piggy directly into another piggy’s cage - any reintroductions must be done on neutral territory, somewhere neither of them have been before. Putting a piggy directly into another’s territory will cause problems. Equally, you absolutely will see mounting and chasing when you put them back together as they try to re-establish their relationship. However, it’s the difference between dominance in a functional relationship and when their bond has broken down.

As mentioned above, there is a risk when buying piggies that they wont have compatibility and it sounds like this could be a real possibility here - they may simply not like each other and cannot live together, but they are very happy to live in side by side cages as neighbours for interaction through the bars. Rumblestrutting through the bars at each other is absolutely fine. If you do have them as neighbours, their cages need to be next to each other and each piggy needs a cage of 120cm x 60cm.
 
Hello, I took your advice and put Peanut and Buttercup in separate cages (120cm x 60cm). They have only been separated for two days. I am a little worried because Peanut will lay for long times at the bars between them. They both chew on the bars when they come face to face. It may just be me but I am also worried that Peanut maybe sad or upset. She has lost some interest in her food and will gnash her teeth when she is in her hidey. The both of them still popcorn when they get fresh hay though. Also, it looks like she is not pooping too much. I am so confused by their behavior. Was this the right thing to do? Is any of this normal? Can Peanut be sick? Can all of this be related to Peanut possibly being out of sorts living in the new cage because it is a new environment for her? There is also one other concern that I have. I have noticed that she has not been going to the bathroom too much. Any advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Carol
 
Hi, there is one other concern. Peanut who used to be very comfortable when I would be coming near her cage or seeing my hand in her cage is extremely fidgety now. Is this a symptom of a problem also?
 
Me again. I just finished cleaning out the piggie's cages and I see that Peanut has been going to the bathroom. Thank God that isn't a problem.
 
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