Bonding two lone female guinea pigs

[oscarbunny]

Hi,

I am in need of some advice. I am deliberating whether to give up attempting to bond my two female guinea pigs.

Last year, I had four very happy female guinea pigs living in pairs. Rachel and Emma formed one pair and Monica and Phoebe formed another pair. Sadly, Phoebe had a stroke and lost the use of her left side of her body. She couldn't feed herself and she couldn't get around. She had weakeness of the right side of her body too. As a result she was PTS.

I felt very concerned for Monica so I tried to bond her with the other pair of females (neutral territory of course). Unfortunately Rachel and Monica didn't take too well to each other, with Monica biting Rachel's chin and needing a visit to the vets. She didn't need stitches or anything, but I had to make sure that she was OK. The bite did break the skin but it looked much worse than it actually was.

As a result I stopped the bonding and Monica lived on her own for 6 months or so. She was handled regularly and she had a giant pink pig to snuggle up to as well as snuggle safes. She seemed quite content being alone. She was still interested in food and didn't seem to appear stressed or depressed so I left things as they were.

Sadly, a month ago, I lost Emma. I found her dead in her cage with hay still in here mouth. I guess she had a heart attack and died instantly. :0
Rachel does however seem to have taken the death of Emma quite hard. She is a very shy guinea pig to begin with (she was rescued from an awful breeder and was severely underweight).

I made the decision to try and bond Monica and Rachel together. I put them in a cage together which was separated with mesh so that they can see and smell each other but obviously can't get to each other. The other night I had them on my knee on a towel and I was stroking them both. Happy squeaks were going on and Rachel tried to burrow under Monica's body. Then all of a sudden, the happy squeaks turned into teeth chattering and hair standing on end, particularly in Monica. Then Monica struck, but I put my hand in the way and she bit me instead. She broke my skin and I have a little bit of a scratch where the teeth tried to go in but it is quite superficial really. It just to say broke the skin, so it was hard to say whether this was a nip or a bite. I am inclined to say a bite but I am unsure.

My question is.... was it the fact that they were on my knee fighting for attention and Monica got jealous and bit Rachel. Monica quite often would nip Phoebe when I had them both out for cuddles and Phoebe would often nip Monica. There would be no teeth chattering though.


I do not want to get anymore guinea pigs as it is heartbreaking when they pass to the bridge and if I keep getting more when they die, then I will always have at least two.

My question to you all is... should I give up and admit that these two guinea pigs are just not destined to be together and let them live their lives on their own. Or am I doing everything wrong in terms of bonding and need to be given some advice on how best to go about it.

Please help as I'm really not sure what to do anymore.

Many Thanks

Joanne, Monica and Rachel.

 

[pigpig479]

Hi,

I am in need of some advice. I am deliberating whether to give up attempting to bond my two female guinea pigs.

Last year, I had four very happy female guinea pigs living in pairs. Rachel and Emma formed one pair and Monica and Phoebe formed another pair. Sadly, Phoebe had a stroke and lost the use of her left side of her body. She couldn't feed herself and she couldn't get around. She had weakeness of the right side of her body too. As a result she was PTS.

I felt very concerned for Monica so I tried to bond her with the other pair of females (neutral territory of course). Unfortunately Rachel and Monica didn't take too well to each other, with Monica biting Rachel's chin and needing a visit to the vets. She didn't need stitches or anything, but I had to make sure that she was OK. The bite did break the skin but it looked much worse than it actually was.

As a result I stopped the bonding and Monica lived on her own for 6 months or so. She was handled regularly and she had a giant pink pig to snuggle up to as well as snuggle safes. She seemed quite content being alone. She was still interested in food and didn't seem to appear stressed or depressed so I left things as they were.

Sadly, a month ago, I lost Emma. I found her dead in her cage with hay still in here mouth. I guess she had a heart attack and died instantly. :0
Rachel does however seem to have taken the death of Emma quite hard. She is a very shy guinea pig to begin with (she was rescued from an awful breeder and was severely underweight).

I made the decision to try and bond Monica and Rachel together. I put them in a cage together which was separated with mesh so that they can see and smell each other but obviously can't get to each other. The other night I had them on my knee on a towel and I was stroking them both. Happy squeaks were going on and Rachel tried to burrow under Monica's body. Then all of a sudden, the happy squeaks turned into teeth chattering and hair standing on end, particularly in Monica. Then Monica struck, but I put my hand in the way and she bit me instead. She broke my skin and I have a little bit of a scratch where the teeth tried to go in but it is quite superficial really. It just to say broke the skin, so it was hard to say whether this was a nip or a bite. I am inclined to say a bite but I am unsure.

My question is.... was it the fact that they were on my knee fighting for attention and Monica got jealous and bit Rachel. Monica quite often would nip Phoebe when I had them both out for cuddles and Phoebe would often nip Monica. There would be no teeth chattering though.


I do not want to get anymore guinea pigs as it is heartbreaking when they pass to the bridge and if I keep getting more when they die, then I will always have at least two.

My question to you all is... should I give up and admit that these two guinea pigs are just not destined to be together and let them live their lives on their own. Or am I doing everything wrong in terms of bonding and need to be given some advice on how best to go about it.

Please help as I'm really not sure what to do anymore.

Many Thanks

Joanne, Monica and Rachel.

I get this all the time, and what i do is, get them in a run, inside or out,(this is neutral ground) and stay for about 5 minutes then leave them for a while, but be sure to come back and check them every 5-10 maybe 20 minutes, or so, but don't stay within there view or it'll scare them and the'll do nothing and it won't work, do this for about 3 hours or so, and keep them going, if they realy fight and blood is drawn then it's a no no, but this is rare with sows(females), to fight so there's a good chance for it to work.
Leave two of everything inside the run(make sure there's good room too) I.E. two bottles, two bowls, two hay racks.
If you need more help them PM me or just ask on here! Good luck!

 

[piggyme234]

Kizzy and Charlotte fought quite badly when I was trying to bond them. Apart from some pulled fur the only injury was a nip on Kizzys lip. We separated them for a few minutes so they could calm down then tried again. They are fine now, they just needed to decide who was boss. Unless they fight badly or blood is drawn you just have to leave them to it unfortunatly, I found it so hard to watch them chase and chatter but Charlotte isn't lonely now so it was worth it.

Two questions though, 1. how old are they? and 2. were they the dominant pigs in their previous parings?
Was Rachel the lower one and Monica the dominant one because if that is the case it may still work.

 

[oscarbunny]

Thanks everyone. It was hard to say really. I always though Phoebe was the more dominant one with Monica. Monica could stand her ground though but she seemed a much more relaxed piggy. Phoebe would often nudge her, so yes I would say Monica was the lower of the two.

With Rachel and Emma... I actually bonded these two when Emma was a very young piggy so the bonding was really easy. Rachel was always the bossy one in this relationship and would often nudge Emma when she didn't get her own way.

However... out of Rachel and Monica... I honestly don't know which one is more dominant/submissive. It is really hard to say. I can see Rachel being submissive towards Monica. Its very strange. I guess it's a wait and see game isn't it?

Thanks so much for your replies.

 

[oscarbunny]

Oh and they are both 3 and a half years old.

 

[pigpig479]

Thanks everyone. It was hard to say really. I always though Phoebe was the more dominant one with Monica. Monica could stand her ground though but she seemed a much more relaxed piggy. Phoebe would often nudge her, so yes I would say Monica was the lower of the two.

With Rachel and Emma... I actually bonded these two when Emma was a very young piggy so the bonding was really easy. Rachel was always the bossy one in this relationship and would often nudge Emma when she didn't get her own way.

However... out of Rachel and Monica... I honestly don't know which one is more dominant/submissive. It is really hard to say. I can see Rachel being submissive towards Monica. Its very strange. I guess it's a wait and see game isn't it?

Thanks so much for your replies.

Are they from the same family?

 

[Lisajazz]

I hope you manage to sort it out whatever way do. No words of wisdom but best wishes.

 

[Wiebke]

If you can afford it, I'd rather bond them with new girls or a neutered male.

I HAVE successfully bonded two three year old girls, but they wanted each other and all went well and they didn't fight (apart from some teeth chattering by the new girl whenever she managed to work herself into a corner on the first evening).

 

[piggyme234]

Hummm older is harder but not impossible. Sounds similar to how my girls were, Charlotte was submissive to Millie but being alone for a while after Millies death she got bossy. Lexi was the more dominant one out of the pair that Charlotte was bonded with but it was Kizzy who stood up to Charlotte wanting to be boss. Lexi just kept out of the way.
Hope it goes ok with your girls. My sister had two girls living next to each other quite happily but they didn't get on when they were together. Maybe your two would be ok next to each other if it really isn't gonna work.
Wiebke has got a good point, if you bond two girls with a neutered boy the girls are less likely to fight.

 

[lovelygirl]

furby (sow) spent a good 45 minutes beating up Jive (neutered boar) this afternoon, sometimes it is a case of gritting your teeth and just observing without interfering! I would recommend leaving them together if at all possible in a neutral space for the longest amount of time before returning to cage. It was really hard watching my 3 bond today, but we are now just working out the fine print...

 

[Wiebke]

furby (sow) spent a good 45 minutes beating up Jive (neutered boar) this afternoon, sometimes it is a case of gritting your teeth and just observing without interfering! I would recommend leaving them together if at all possible in a neutral space for the longest amount of time before returning to cage. It was really hard watching my 3 bond today, but we are now just working out the fine print...

You should never leave guinea pigs together if there are bloody fights. If it's just "handbags at dawn", you can get on with it. There is an important difference in degree!

However, you need to exercise your own judgement whether the two girls are really getting on or not. Not all older sows do, or are happy about company again after they have been on their own for a time.

 

[lovelygirl]

You should never leave guinea pigs together if there are bloody fights. If it's just "handbags at dawn", you can get on with it. There is an important difference in degree!

However, you need to exercise your own judgement whether the two girls are really getting on or not. Not all older sows do, or are happy about company again after they have been on their own for a time.

there was nipping, pulling fur and chasing but no rolling around "ball of fury" it seemed very dramatic at the time! but as you say handbags at dawn no blood was drawn! It also took much longer for them to calm down than i thought they would if they were going to accept each other, luckily i had a friend who runs a rescue oversee the bonding or i would have wimped out after about 2 minutes!

 

[oscarbunny]

No they are not from the same family. I suppose I can only give it a go can't I. I will hope for handbags at dawn. Any tips in terms of when to intervene...?

When they both have their necks in the air and are chattering for example?

It's not an issue of money. It is an issue of loving the guinea pigs I have but not wanting to continue keeping them in the future. I do however want the girls to be as happy as they possibly can for the rest of their lives.

I see your point about a neutered male... but I will just end up continuing the cycle of getting another guinea pig for the one that is now alone.

Don't get me wrong, I love my girls and I would do anything for them. I just don't cope very well when they pass to the bridge.

Just out of interest, why does bonding become harder when the pigs get older. Is it that they become used to living on their own?

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[pigpig479]

No they are not from the same family. I suppose I can only give it a go can't I. I will hope for handbags at dawn. Any tips in terms of when to intervene...?

When they both have their necks in the air and are chattering for example?

It's not an issue of money. It is an issue of loving the guinea pigs I have but not wanting to continue keeping them in the future. I do however want the girls to be as happy as they possibly can for the rest of their lives.

I see your point about a neutered male... but I will just end up continuing the cycle of getting another guinea pig for the one that is now alone.

Don't get me wrong, I love my girls and I would do anything for them. I just don't cope very well when they pass to the bridge.

Just out of interest, why does bonding become harder when the pigs get older. Is it that they become used to living on their own?

Thanks again for the advice.

If you see them mecks up, then wait until they start fighting, because they might not! I would try, keep near by but not too close.

 

[pigpig479]

No they are not from the same family. I suppose I can only give it a go can't I. I will hope for handbags at dawn. Any tips in terms of when to intervene...?

When they both have their necks in the air and are chattering for example?

It's not an issue of money. It is an issue of loving the guinea pigs I have but not wanting to continue keeping them in the future. I do however want the girls to be as happy as they possibly can for the rest of their lives.

I see your point about a neutered male... but I will just end up continuing the cycle of getting another guinea pig for the one that is now alone.

Don't get me wrong, I love my girls and I would do anything for them. I just don't cope very well when they pass to the bridge.

Just out of interest, why does bonding become harder when the pigs get older. Is it that they become used to living on their own?

Thanks again for the advice.

They get used to being on there own and used to being grumpy realy! But there not happy when there older and on there own, you can keep them on there own, but you would need to hold them alot of the time and stay by them.

 

[lovelygirl]

intervene if they turn into the "ball of fury" we had lots of teeth chattering, yawning, nipping, chasing. Have you got a friend who is very experienced? as i said before mine were bonded under the supervision of someone else as i would have caved too soon or have someone for moral support?

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for explaining your situation.

I guess older piggies just get set in their ways and want to rule their world in their way - especially the dominant ones! Much depends on the character and the character combination. Like with humans - some simply don't get on that well!

Here is a link to boar behaviour, but it applies very much to sows as well, especially where it comes to signs of aggressiveness:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28949
I have written a short article about sow behaviour, but have kept it more generalised on request. It is rather geared towards newbies.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38561

Perhaps you can help building up a relationship by letting them share regular supervised run time in neutral territory every day (ideally every time a bit longer) and see how they get on. It has been successfully tried with boars whose introduction didn't go smoothly. You can also try and give them a bath with the same shampoo before putting them together in order to neutralise their own different scent - but be warned that this trick won't work like a magic wand!

Before you put them together in a hutch/cage, you need to give it a good scrub and clean, and if possible rearrange the furniture/set-up, so it's more neutral for either piggy.

Unless the girls really have a go at each other with bloody scratches and bites, I would let them get on with it - "handbags" and nips in the bottom are allowed. It might be a good idea to weigh them, and check their weight regularly. If one of them loses weight or becomes withdrawn (usually the undergirl) they should be separated. They are sings of stress and unhappiness. Ideally, I would not interfere too much while they are together, because it's them that need to work out their relationship in their very own way, not you!

If they don't work out, you could try and keep them next door to each other where they can see each other, so they each have their own territory, but are not alone.