Boris Has A Uri

[LydiaMinx]

Thank you for the well wishes today, Boris is still stable but not better at all.

I could only get an appointment with a locum vet, who apparently had an interest in exotics so I was satisfied with that...she was without a doubt the most chaotic and clueless vet I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.

I lost my temper with her as we were in there 45 minutes and she'd not told me one thing that hadn't already been said. She didn't ask me about his eating, the sloshing, his weight, his breathing...she just kept on trying to push another antibiotic on me, relentlessly.

I said I wasn't comfortable with him being on another antibiotic as the Baytril has made him so much more ill then he was originally, and the antibiotic she was trying to give me was amoxicillin (that I'm pretty sure is a huge no go for pigs?) so I outright refused it.

She said the specialist was unable to tell if the problem was his heart or lungs, so she wanted to take another...under full anaesthetic.

I said isn't that a huge risk given that his problem is with his breathing? She said yes, he may die. Comforting!

This was just on repeat for 45 minutes, I became so frustrated I began crying, she did not once address the sloshing. Even when I listed what I'd read it could be.

So upon leaving I spoke to the nurse to say that I wasn't comfortable having her do his x-ray tomorrow, and they said I wasn't the first to complain. So he was booked with his normal vet for the next day.

I got home, so upset, and got a call from the vet, they called his normal vet at home and she wasn't happy with the x-ray being done whilst he was under either, so she's referred me to the specialist that Badger has been seeing.

I'm just in shock at how all over the place that vet was..her phone was constantly ringing, she was outright ignoring me and it was so frustrating.

We are seeing the specialist tomorrow at 9:45 so fingers crossed I'll actually have some answers

 

[Adelle]

Thank you for the well wishes today, Boris is still stable but not better at all.

I could only get an appointment with a locum vet, who apparently had an interest in exotics so I was satisfied with that...she was without a doubt the most chaotic and clueless vet I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.

I lost my temper with her as we were in there 45 minutes and she'd not told me one thing that hadn't already been said. She didn't ask me about his eating, the sloshing, his weight, his breathing...she just kept on trying to push another antibiotic on me, relentlessly.

I said I wasn't comfortable with him being on another antibiotic as the Baytril has made him so much more ill then he was originally, and the antibiotic she was trying to give me was amoxicillin (that I'm pretty sure is a huge no go for pigs?) so I outright refused it.

She said the specialist was unable to tell if the problem was his heart or lungs, so she wanted to take another...under full anaesthetic.

I said isn't that a huge risk given that his problem is with his breathing? She said yes, he may die. Comforting!

This was just on repeat for 45 minutes, I became so frustrated I began crying, she did not once address the sloshing. Even when I listed what I'd read it could be.

So upon leaving I spoke to the nurse to say that I wasn't comfortable having her do his x-ray tomorrow, and they said I wasn't the first to complain. So he was booked with his normal vet for the next day.

I got home, so upset, and got a call from the vet, they called his normal vet at home and she wasn't happy with the x-ray being done whilst he was under either, so she's referred me to the specialist that Badger has been seeing.

I'm just in shock at how all over the place that vet was..her phone was constantly ringing, she was outright ignoring me and it was so frustrating.

We are seeing the specialist tomorrow at 9:45 so fingers crossed I'll actually have some answers

Sorry to hear this! What a drama and must have been so stresful for u both! I'm glad your practice had the knowledge to call your vet and u have had alternative arrangments made.

Deep breath and hug little boris xx

 

[Teddybear22]

I'm sorry you had to meet that "vet"... that's really awful.
Crossing my fingers hoping you get some answers tomorrow x

 

[LydiaMinx]

Sorry to hear this! What a drama and must have been so stresful for you both! I'm glad your practice had the knowledge to call your vet and you have had alternative arrangments made.

Deep breath and hug little boris xx

It was just shocking, Boris started washing himself on the table and she said 'Oh! He's cleaning himself, he can't be feeling that ill!' I was just stunned, as was my partner. I'm confident the specialist will actually take it seriously tomorrow, so I feel slightly more calm then I have been recently.

I'm sorry you had to meet that "vet"... that's really awful.
Crossing my fingers hoping you get some answers tomorrow x

If I wasn't so worried about Boris, it probably would have been a funny situation - she repeated everything that much. I mentioned that I'd been syringe feeding him with the pro-biotics added and she then proceeded to tell me about 30 seconds later that I needed to syringe feed him and give him pro-biotics.

I also mentioned that I was against additional AB's as it has even put him off of water, and that he was so dehydrated yesterday when I got home from work that his eye sockets sunk in...she then said that he didn't look dehydrated today! Yes, I said, as I've been syringe feeding him constantly since getting home from work.

It was hilariously bad.

I'm sure the specialists will have some answers tomorrow thankfully

 

[LydiaMinx]

Ok, so we have a diagnosis: Dilated Cardiomyopathy.

He had lateral x-rays done, without anaesthetic, and his heart was very very large and round. It was so large it was pushing his trachea against his spine!

So he is beginning Vetmedin today, I asked about Fortekor but he wants to see how he goes with the Vetmedin initially. I also have a diuretic, Furosemide and some Metacam to help with any swelling in his trachea from being crushed.

I'm obviously upset that my baby has this, but I'm very happy I have a proper diagnosis. I knew it wasn't a URI!

 

[helen105281]

Thank goodness you have a diagnosis at last. Poor boy. Hope he responds well to the meds and your vet adds in the ACE inhibitor if needed.

 

[Adelle]

Sorry to hear you have a heart piggy, but as you say its great you have a diagnosis and you can start to get on top of it. Any questions just give @helen105281 or i a tag xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

Thank goodness you have a diagnosis at last. Poor boy. Hope he responds well to the meds and your vet adds in the ACE inhibitor if needed.

I'm hoping so too, how long did it take for your piggies to start to improve? The vet said it could be anywhere between 24-48 hours, I'm hoping it is quicker!

Sorry to hear you have a heart piggy, but as you say its great you have a diagnosis and you can start to get on top of it. Any questions just give @helen105281 or i a tag xx

Honestly it's a huge relief. I just felt that it wasn't a URI from the beginning, and if it was, it was due to another underlying problem. At least now I know and can be aware of what to do and avoid and Boris can get the help he needs And if the worst happens, I know what the cause was, not just some mystery problem.

And I will do, I'll have plenty of questions I'm sure! I have one now, do heart piggies need to be kept cooler then those without heart problems?

 

[helen105281]

It can be fairly quick, sometimes as soon as 24 hours but it really depends on the pig. I think the diuretic will make the most difference first of all, though you have the added issue of his trachea bless him so I expect some swelling will need to go down too.

Heat can be a factor in that they can overheat and fluid can develop. I wouldn't say they need to be kept cooler but you do need to be vigilant when the weather is hot and humid. I always have diuretics on standby.

 

[Adelle]

I'm hoping so too, how long did it take for your piggies to start to improve? The vet said it could be anywhere between 24-48 hours, I'm hoping it is quicker!



Honestly it's a huge relief. I just felt that it wasn't a URI from the beginning, and if it was, it was due to another underlying problem. At least now I know and can be aware of what to do and avoid and Boris can get the help he needs And if the worst happens, I know what the cause was, not just some mystery problem.

And I will do, I'll have plenty of questions I'm sure! I have one now, do heart piggies need to be kept cooler then those without heart problems?

It really all depends on the pig and as @helen105281 says, the diuretics will have the quickest effect. The temperature thing depends on him.. Some need to stay cooler (just the usual cool, as in not a hot room) to aid their breathing but if they have poor circulation at times, they will need kept warm- this was the case with fudge at the beginning but she actually seems fine on that front now x

 

[LydiaMinx]

There's a definite improvement over night, his ears aren't as ruddy or veiny l now, I have a comparison photo I'll upload later.
He's also moving around a bit and just generally a bit happier looking - he's feeding himself a bit too! He's gained 50g back from yesterday also.

I'm not sure whether this is due to the Vetmedin or that the Baytril has been stopped, hopefully both.
His breathing is yet to improve greatly however, so fingers crossed that follows.

 

[LydiaMinx]

Boris seems to be going from strength to strength! His breathing is still nowhere near normal, but it is a definite improvement on what it was. He was rocking with each exhale before the heart meds, no he's able to sit still while breathing.
He's feeding himself almost normal amounts too. He has had quite bad runny poo, probably due to eating veg again and the AB's. They're starting to firm up again today, enough to form the normal shape!
@helen105281 and @Adelle ; you both mentioned that you have diuretics for your heart pigs, my vet prescribed Frusol (said the wrong one in previous post) but not to take daily. He said to give it to him as and when it may be necessary. Would the permanent addition of Frusol benefit him even if he didn't have any fluid retention in his chest?

Thank you

 

[Adelle]

The frusol is a diuretic, to rid the body of excess fluid, in Boris' case, his lungs. This should only be given when there is definately fluid there, causing breathing issues. In saying that, normally a regular dose (as low as possible) is needed to rid the fluid. The diuretics need to be removing the fluid at the same rate as hes producing it, so it takes a while to find a steady dose.

The problem with Boris is he has pressure on his trachea, which will interfere with his breathing- so it isnt as clear cut as just keeping an eye on the breathing and dosing frusol accordingly.

Your vet must have found fluid to prescribe diuretics i assume, what dose has he been given, and what is the strength of the frusol? Its usually 20mg/5ml or 40mg/5ml. Did his breathing improve with diuretics? They usually take 1.5 hours to reach their peak effect.

If you find he improves, then gets worse again as hes due more, you will need to discuss a regular dose of frusol with your vet. Only after his breathing is entirely stable and near normal for him to lead a happy life, for 2 weeks consecutively, can you try and reduce the dose.

Xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

The frusol is a diuretic, to rid the body of excess fluid, in Boris' case, his lungs. This should only be given when there is definately fluid there, causing breathing issues. In saying that, normally a regular dose (as low as possible) is needed to rid the fluid. The diuretics need to be removing the fluid at the same rate as hes producing it, so it takes a while to find a steady dose.

The problem with Boris is he has pressure on his trachea, which will interfere with his breathing- so it isnt as clear cut as just keeping an eye on the breathing and dosing frusol accordingly.

Your vet must have found fluid to prescribe diuretics i assume, what dose has he been given, and what is the strength of the frusol? Its usually 20mg/5ml or 40mg/5ml. Did his breathing improve with diuretics? They usually take 1.5 hours to reach their peak effect.

If you find he improves, then gets worse again as hes due more, you will need to discuss a regular dose of frusol with your vet. Only after his breathing is entirely stable and near normal for him to lead a happy life, for 2 weeks consecutively, can you try and reduce the dose.

Xx

The vet was certain that at the moment, there was no fluid in his lungs but felt it would be good for me to have them in case he took a turn suddenly and he began to crackle, I think. Boris hasn't had a dose yet because he's been improving without and hasn't had any fluid in present in either X-ray, but I'm willing to give it a go to see if it helps, of course The strength of the Frusol I have is 50mg/5ml, with a dosage of .15mls twice a day.

Regarding the pressure on his trachea, do the meds help slightly reduce enlarged hearts? Or just stop them from getting larger? It concerns me that it could have gotten that severe without any symptoms until last week

Thank you again Adelle, you've been an amazing help throughout this, as have you @helen105281 x

 

[Adelle]

The vet was certain that at the moment, there was no fluid in his lungs but felt it would be good for me to have them in case he took a turn suddenly and he began to crackle, I think. Boris hasn't had a dose yet because he's been improving without and hasn't had any fluid in present in either X-ray, but I'm willing to give it a go to see if it helps, of course The strength of the Frusol I have is 50mg/5ml, with a dosage of .15mls twice a day.

Regarding the pressure on his trachea, do the meds help slightly reduce enlarged hearts? Or just stop them from getting larger? It concerns me that it could have gotten that severe without any symptoms until last week

Thank you again Adelle, you've been an amazing help throughout this, as have you @helen105281 x

Gimme 5, syringe feeding crunchie!xx

 

[Adelle]

The vet was certain that at the moment, there was no fluid in his lungs but felt it would be good for me to have them in case he took a turn suddenly and he began to crackle, I think. Boris hasn't had a dose yet because he's been improving without and hasn't had any fluid in present in either X-ray, but I'm willing to give it a go to see if it helps, of course The strength of the Frusol I have is 50mg/5ml, with a dosage of .15mls twice a day.

Regarding the pressure on his trachea, do the meds help slightly reduce enlarged hearts? Or just stop them from getting larger? It concerns me that it could have gotten that severe without any symptoms until last week

Thank you again Adelle, you've been an amazing help throughout this, as have you @helen105281 x

Feeding round is complete!so..

It is great he is improving without diuretics so far- honestly that really is best case scenario! The dose your vet has prescribed is 1.5mg frusol twice daily- usually the maintenance dose is 2mg twice daily, but since boris is fluid free at the moment, i can see why the dose is lower. The good news is frusol can be given 4mg every 8 hours (3x daily), which would be 0.4ml of your frusol strength- so you have major scope there should things deteriorate as time goes on which is excellent.

If hes improving just on the vetmedin, that is great and i wouldnt add in frusol at this stage. Should his breathing become crackly, wheezy, hooting or just more laboured, i would step in with the frusol at that stage, at the 0.15ml recommended by your vet.

Vetmedin caused horrendous diarrohea in fudge, but also made her extremely flat and completely off her food (the first and only time during her diagnosis) so vetmedin couldnt be used with her. If soft stools persist, consult your vet about lowering the dose slightly and gradually increasing as his stomach settles.

The vetmedin may or may not reduce the heart enlargement, but it could prevent it getting larger. I know fortekor has this effect, but unsure about the vetmedin. This would be something to ask the vet about. All going well and he stays stable, id request a conscious (insist on this) chest xray in 3 months time to compare the size of the heart.

Hope this helps x

 

[LydiaMinx]

Feeding round is complete!so..

It is great he is improving without diuretics so far- honestly that really is best case scenario! The dose your vet has prescribed is 1.5mg frusol twice daily- usually the maintenance dose is 2mg twice daily, but since boris is fluid free at the moment, i can see why the dose is lower. The good news is frusol can be given 4mg every 8 hours (3x daily), which would be 0.4ml of your frusol strength- so you have major scope there should things deteriorate as time goes on which is excellent.

If hes improving just on the vetmedin, that is great and i wouldnt add in frusol at this stage. Should his breathing become crackly, wheezy, hooting or just more laboured, i would step in with the frusol at that stage, at the 0.15ml recommended by your vet.

Vetmedin caused horrendous diarrohea in fudge, but also made her extremely flat and completely off her food (the first and only time during her diagnosis) so vetmedin couldnt be used with her. If soft stools persist, consult your vet about lowering the dose slightly and gradually increasing as his stomach settles.

The vetmedin may or may not reduce the heart enlargement, but it could prevent it getting larger. I know fortekor has this effect, but unsure about the vetmedin. This would be something to ask the vet about. All going well and he stays stable, id request a conscious (insist on this) chest xray in 3 months time to compare the size of the heart.

Hope this helps x

That was very quick syringe feeding! I'm so slow at it still

That's good, nice to know I can give it with relatively quick effect if need be. He is still intermittently sloshing however, so I may consider giving him the Frusol as there's water somewhere it shouldn't be, even if not his chest.

And Boris was starting to have normal poo again, but this evening it has gone back to almost water, it's just dripping out of his back end. He nibbled on banana earlier so I think that may be it, I'll go back to restricting fresh food and seeing if it's that or the Vetmedin.

I want to request Fortekor as well, just to be safe (can't hurt right?) so will probably ring and say it would make me much more comfortable if all bases were covered with the medication.

Also, he's plummeted in weight again. He seemed so active and happy earlier and was eating, so I assumed he'd have maintained or gained weight. I weighed him and he's now down to 780g - bearing in mind his normal weight is 1kg, he's lost this in a week


I've resumed syringe feeding and will continue until his weight is increasing. This is so hard to see, he's a bag of bones

 

[LydiaMinx]

I forgot to mention that at some point he has managed to chip a chunk off of one lower incisor

 

[Adelle]

I forgot to mention that at some point he has managed to chip a chunk off of one lower incisor

Poor boy! The incisor shouldnt be causing problems but if in doubt, have it checked. If the diarrohea continues, and he still isnt eating properly, id maybe ask to try fortekor instead of vet medin. Fortekor is usually accepted well with no side effects, vetmedin can be too but fudge had horrendous diarrohea and stopped eating.

Does he have a heart murmur? If so, that will be the reason for the vetmedin, although is usually prescribed alongside fortekor.

It is just trial and error but if his diarrohea and appetite dont pick up, id suggest trying him off, or lower dose of vetmedin.

X

 

[Adelle]

Ps be careful with the diuretics if he has bad diarrohea- you dont want him getting too dehydrated xx

 

[LydiaMinx]

Poor boy! The incisor shouldnt be causing problems but if in doubt, have it checked. If the diarrohea continues, and he still isnt eating properly, id maybe ask to try fortekor instead of vet medin. Fortekor is usually accepted well with no side effects, vetmedin can be too but fudge had horrendous diarrohea and stopped eating.

Does he have a heart murmur? If so, that will be the reason for the vetmedin, although is usually prescribed alongside fortekor.

It is just trial and error but if his diarrohea and appetite dont pick up, id suggest trying him off, or lower dose of vetmedin.

X

Ps be careful with the diuretics if he has bad diarrohea- you dont want him getting too dehydrated xx

His poo is hardening again already, I think he's very sensitive to fresh food at the moment as he hasn't had them since becoming ill. I'm hoping it's that anyway! It's still not pellet form, but it's not watery.

He doesn't have a heart murmur as far as I'm aware, or that the vets have told me about, but the vet mentioned the Vetmedin is used in dogs with DCM, and as Boris has the same thing it should be the most effective, but he was open to Fortekor as well if the Vetmedin didn't go down well.

I just hate the waiting. wish I could take it from him and have it myself x

 

[Adelle]

His poo is hardening again already, I think he's very sensitive to fresh food at the moment as he hasn't had them since becoming ill. I'm hoping it's that anyway! It's still not pellet form, but it's not watery.

He doesn't have a heart murmur as far as I'm aware, or that the vets have told me about, but the vet mentioned the Vetmedin is used in dogs with DCM, and as Boris has the same thing it should be the most effective, but he was open to Fortekor as well if the Vetmedin didn't go down well.

I just hate the waiting. wish I could take it from him and have it myself x

I know how you feel! Just keep a close eye and if u are worried about ANYTHING just tell the vet and they will advise whats best. It is just a waiting game to find what works. Heres a picture of fudge to give you hope.. Approaching a year since she took unwell, and shes still here enjoying life to the full x

 

[LydiaMinx]

I know how you feel! Just keep a close eye and if you are worried about ANYTHING just tell the vet and they will advise whats best. It is just a waiting game to find what works. Heres a picture of fudge to give you hope.. Approaching a year since she took unwell, and shes still here enjoying life to the full x

View attachment 48918

That really does give me hope! I'm sorry to say I have another question when I syringe any fluid to Boris (Inc. Medicine) he makes this noise in his mouth, like a slurry clicking noise in his nose almost.

What could this be? He's never done it to my knowledge before (but I'm aware I'm hyper sensitive over any change at the moment) but Badger was doing it too when syringed his medication...I hope it isn't anything sinister

 

[Adelle]

Do you think his breathing is causing the clicking? It could be due to a small amount of fluid, or just a noise because what hes taking in his mouth is wet. Keep an eye on his breathing- if you feel he needs the diuretics if his breathing deteriorates, keep a listen out to see if the noise goes away too.

Remember to only syringe small amounts at a time to piggies with breathing issues due to the increased risk of them aspirating x

 

[LydiaMinx]

Do you think his breathing is causing the clicking? It could be due to a small amount of fluid, or just a noise because what hes taking in his mouth is wet. Keep an eye on his breathing- if you feel he needs the diuretics if his breathing deteriorates, keep a listen out to see if the noise goes away too.

Remember to only syringe small amounts at a time to piggies with breathing issues due to the increased risk of them aspirating x

It could be, it seems mildly better since I started the diuretic yesterday. He's very subdued but stable, I think.

And he did actually just aspirate a tiny amount of food I fed him the same small amount as I ever have done, just as slowly, but he spluttered and has been coughing a bit He's stopped coughing now so he may have gotten it all up, but now I'm in a new panic about that

 

[Adelle]

It could be, it seems mildly better since I started the diuretic yesterday. He's very subdued but stable, I think.

And he did actually just aspirate a tiny amount of food I fed him the same small amount as I ever have done, just as slowly, but he spluttered and has been coughing a bit He's stopped coughing now so he may have gotten it all up, but now I'm in a new panic about that

Keep an eye on his breathing, and call the vet should he keep coughing x

 

[LydiaMinx]

Keep an eye on his breathing, and call the vet should he keep coughing x

Thankfully he didn't cough again so seems he managed to get it all

He's still up and down, but seems to be perky more and more. He has runny poo on and off and I'm not sure if it's the meds (he's on Doxy, Metacam, Vetmedin and Frusol) or him not being used to fresh food again, so he's only getting a little bit a day to keep it to the minimum.

I'm still syringe feeding, he's taking about 100mls a day and seems to be maintaining weight, however he is still sloshing.

I'm assuming at this point that it's not fluid bloat, and water retention somewhere in his abdomen from his heart. The diuretics don't seem to be working much but I'll ring his vet tomorrow and see what he says about it.

Fluid retention isn't serious is it? I'm seeing mixed posts about it on here and I would hate another thing to worry about

 

[Adelle]

If he is retaining fluid, it will do more harm to leave it be than it will to give diuretics to clear it. Id talk to your vet about trying him on a higher dose for a week or 2 to see if he improves and it shifts x

 

[Adelle]

How is boris @LydiaMinx ? I hope hes doing well x

 

[LydiaMinx]

If he is retaining fluid, it will do more harm to leave it be than it will to give diuretics to clear it. Id talk to your vet about trying him on a higher dose for a week or 2 to see if he improves and it shifts x

So, a happy update! I did call the vet and ask about the diuretic, he said to give him 0.2mls twice a day, and the sloshing has started to lessen. It can vary day to day but overall it is much better (can't hear it when he jumps for example). He took a bit of a turn (lethargic with horrendous runny poo) for a few days but I knew that was due to the AB's as he was fine prior to them, even with the heart problems.

So he was on them for a week as a precaution after DCM diagnosis (as his bloods showed slightly elevated WBC count so it was better to be safe than sorry), and he has been off of them since Friday, and his poo is firming up by the day.

He's maintaining around 800g and I'm lessening the syringe feed now he is off the AB's, as they were really messing with his appetite.

Seems to really be on the up now, hopefully he starts to gain some weight back as he feels very skinny!

Also @Adelle I was writing this update as you posted! How strange!