Specialist Brain Tumour

[Hanzzellhoff]

Good morning

My lovely Guinea Pig Nibbler is 6 years old and I noticed she started having respiratory issues and one of her eyes started to protrude a few weeks ago. I took her to the vets (where I work) and they checked her over. We tried Baytril antibitoic and an anti-inflammatory to see if it may be inflammation causing the protrusion and to help with the resp issues. This helped with the resp issues but not the eye.
I've continued with the anti-inflammatory and tried Chlorophnicol drops but that irritated her eye causing her to scratch it, which made matters worse as she's scratched her cornea. I stopped those and got corneal repair eye drops and fucithelmic antibiotic drops. Upon speaking to my vet a few times about the cause and treating for each probable cause it has come down to the possibility of a brain tumour causing pressure behind the eye. I'm doing everything I can to help her, she had a buster collar on to prevent her from scratching but she was so frustrated with it on I had to take it off. She had zero quality of life with it on. I discussed it with my vet before removing but we both decided it was for the best as her attempts to keep pulling it off was probably causing more issue to the eye then an occasional rub. I also only give her a handful of hay a few times a day for her to eat to prevent her from nesting and getting hay poke, she loves to nest.
So my question is.. How do you know when the time is right to put your guinea pig to sleep?
I keep thinking I'm cruel to keep her going with such a painful eye but then I also think I'm cruel to put her to sleep as she's still eating/drinking/running around. There's nothing I can do to stop her from rubbing it so I know in time it's going to be painful for her, but can she be in that much pain at the moment if she's eating?
Her quality of life is good currently (minus the medications, she hates medication time).
I'm really at a cross roads and don't want her to suffer in any way.

Thanks
Hannah

 

[Wiebke]

Good morning

My lovely Guinea Pig Nibbler is 6 years old and I noticed she started having respiratory issues and one of her eyes started to protrude a few weeks ago. I took her to the vets (where I work) and they checked her over. We tried Baytril antibitoic and an anti-inflammatory to see if it may be inflammation causing the protrusion and to help with the resp issues. This helped with the resp issues but not the eye.
I've continued with the anti-inflammatory and tried Chlorophnicol drops but that irritated her eye causing her to scratch it, which made matters worse as she's scratched her cornea. I stopped those and got corneal repair eye drops and fucithelmic antibiotic drops. Upon speaking to my vet a few times about the cause and treating for each probable cause it has come down to the possibility of a brain tumour causing pressure behind the eye. I'm doing everything I can to help her, she had a buster collar on to prevent her from scratching but she was so frustrated with it on I had to take it off. She had zero quality of life with it on. I discussed it with my vet before removing but we both decided it was for the best as her attempts to keep pulling it off was probably causing more issue to the eye then an occasional rub. I also only give her a handful of hay a few times a day for her to eat to prevent her from nesting and getting hay poke, she loves to nest.
So my question is.. How do you know when the time is right to put your guinea pig to sleep?
I keep thinking I'm cruel to keep her going with such a painful eye but then I also think I'm cruel to put her to sleep as she's still eating/drinking/running around. There's nothing I can do to stop her from rubbing it so I know in time it's going to be painful for her, but can she be in that much pain at the moment if she's eating?
Her quality of life is good currently (minus the medications, she hates medication time).
I'm really at a cross roads and don't want her to suffer in any way.

Thanks
Hannah

Hi and welcome!

I am very sorry. It is the kind of diagnosis none of us want to hear.

Anyway, it sounds like a retrobulbar abscess (and not necessarily a tumour) to me; this is an abscess sitting behind the eye and it is more common than a tumour.
Baytril is often not strong enough to cut through an abscess. How long has the baytril been given and what dosage of of metacam is your girl on (please state whether it is dog or cat metacam as they differ in strength, but can both be given). It is very likely that she needs stronger painkillers as a large abscess behind the eye is painful.
Would your vet be prepared to try a very strong unlicensed antibiotic like zithromax (azithromycin), which is your best bet to get on top of it medically? Baytril is the only officially licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs worldwide, but it has its limits.

Unfortunately, you need a very experienced vet for a make-or-break eye removal operation at this age. How experienced is your vet with guinea pigs?

Please pts/euthanise your guinea pig asap if she loses her appetite or any time now if you cannot operate as she is in obvious discomfort. It is always very difficult when it is up to you to call the shots in a situation like that, especially when it is the first time round and you are dreading it. The decision has to feel right for you, as long as it is made with your girl's overall welfare upmost in mind, and not your own fears and desires. There is a certain band in which this decision can be made; you are in it now unless your vet is prepared to try one of the options above or you are deciding to see another exotics vet.

All the best!

@furryfriends (TEAS) @helen105281 @Jaycey @Lady Kelly @Freela

 

[Lady Kelly]

Hi and I am really sorry to hear of your news. It's not what any of us want to be faced with. With PTS the advice I always had was better a day too soon than a day too late but you need to be some kind of mind reader to know when that day is.

It could be the tumour causing the discomfort with the eye rather than the medication. Are the vets at your place specialists? If not I would suggest an appointment with a specialist as this is not a common condition and they may be in a position to provide better guidance for you or alternative medications that may keep her comfortable for a bit longer

 

[DM030819]

@Hanzzellhoff Deciding when it's time is such a hard thing to do. I had to do it a few months ago for a piggy that wasn't mine so I felt I had to be 150% certain I was right. The piggy wasn't doing great when she came to me, but she was eating, seemed perky and there was hope for improvement. That changed after a few days and I could see that she'd has enough.

If you're not able to get any Zithromax, or have the eye removed then personally I would opt for sooner rather than later. I had a pig once with an inoperable lump and I decided it was time before he could start to suffer. I believe that as pigs are so good at hiding their illnesses when they are showing signs of pain or discomfort from internal lumps then it must be enough for them.

I'm sorry for your poor diagnosis.

 

[Flutterby]

I'm so sorry about the bad news

 

[Merab]

Welcome to the forum and so sorry for your news.
Knowing when is a hard decision but I think you will know when it’s time.
You know Nibbler and you will sense the moment.
It doesn’t mean that it will be easy to act but we’re here to support you at a difficult time.
Many of us really do understand your dilemma

 

[Emz1999]

Sending lots of love at this difficult time.

If treatment is not going to be possible just remember that 6 is a good age and I hope you may be able to rest a little easier knowing that you've provided her with such a lovely life. But from the sounds of it, she still has more to give and if you can find the painkillers to help her then I'm sure you'll have a good few months with her more.

I had one little lady who I was sure didn't have much more in her, but from first being recognised she stayed with us for a full year on and managed to stay to experience this year's summer grass.

 

[Hanzzellhoff]

Hi and welcome!

I am very sorry. It is the kind of diagnosis none of us want to hear.

Anyway, it sounds like a retrobulbar abscess (and not necessarily a tumour) to me; this is an abscess sitting behind the eye and it is more common than a tumour.
Baytril is often not strong enough to cut through an abscess. How long has the baytril been given and what dosage of of metacam is your girl on (please state whether it is dog or cat metacam as they differ in strength, but can both be given). It is very likely that she needs stronger painkillers as a large abscess behind the eye is painful.
Would your vet be prepared to try a very strong unlicensed antibiotic like zithromax (azithromycin), which is your best bet to get on top of it medically? Baytril is the only officially licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs worldwide, but it has its limits.

Unfortunately, you need a very experienced vet for a make-or-break eye removal operation at this age. How experienced is your vet with guinea pigs?

Please pts/euthanise your guinea pig asap if she loses her appetite or any time now if you cannot operate as she is in obvious discomfort. It is always very difficult when it is up to you to call the shots in a situation like that, especially when it is the first time round and you are dreading it. The decision has to feel right for you, as long as it is made with your girl's overall welfare upmost in mind, and not your own fears and desires. There is a certain band in which this decision can be made; you are in it now unless your vet is prepared to try one of the options above or you are deciding to see another exotics vet.

All the best!

@furryfriends (TEAS) @helen105281 @Jaycey @Lady Kelly @Freela

Thanks for the reply!
I've done Baytril for a week, and she's on the dog loxicom 0.3ml twice daily, she was initially on once daily but the vet looked in her formulary after she had scratched her cornea badly and found out it can be given twice daily. We don't have zithromax but I will find if we can get it in. I would love to take her to a specialist the only problem I have is time I work long shifts and get the weekends off which is when the local specialist is closed. I will look at taking her further afield maybe.

As for the enucleation I think she's too old for it, I see a lot of older animals being put through sx and they don't cope well. I also believe there is something more going on.
I got home last night and she had spent the whole day sitting in her little castle, she didn't come out for her food or her leafy greens etc just sat in there all puffed up for the entire day. Later on before I went to bed I checked on her and she was loudly wheezing. I checked her over and she stopped again but it was a horrible noise.

Last night I thought tomorrow will probably be the day for pts if she doesn't drift off in her sleep but when I woke up this morning she was at her food bowl? It's so difficult to know what she's feeling.

Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[Hanzzellhoff]

Hi and I am really sorry to hear of your news. It's not what any of us want to be faced with. With PTS the advice I always had was better a day too soon than a day too late but you need to be some kind of mind reader to know when that day is.

It could be the tumour causing the discomfort with the eye rather than the medication. Are the vets at your place specialists? If not I would suggest an appointment with a specialist as this is not a common condition and they may be in a position to provide better guidance for you or alternative medications that may keep her comfortable for a bit longer

Thank you for the reply!

My vets are not specialists sadly but they are trying everything to help her/me haha one went home and did some research on what medications could be used.
I will look into taking her to a specialist, just unfortunately I work long hours and get weekends off which is when the nearest specialist closes so I may have to take her further afield.
As for the pts advice, I really relate to yours. I would much rather her be out of pain before it gets too much, even if that means saying good bye earlier than expected. She seems to be having good days then bad days. Yesterday she spent the entire day in her castle hiding away, she was puffed up and just sat there. I offered her different tasty foods and she didn't want any of them. I left it all there for her and went out. when I got back she hadn't moved, in the evening she was wheezing so loudly, I checked on her and she stopped. That was a good deciding factor for me, or so I thought, this morning I woke up and she was at her food bowl!? So now I feel like if I pts I'm doing it too soon!
So difficult, I wish she could tell me how she's feeling.

 

[Hanzzellhoff]

Sending lots of love at this difficult time.

If treatment is not going to be possible just remember that 6 is a good age and I hope you may be able to rest a little easier knowing that you've provided her with such a lovely life. But from the sounds of it, she still has more to give and if you can find the painkillers to help her then I'm sure you'll have a good few months with her more.

I had one little lady who I was sure didn't have much more in her, but from first being recognised she stayed with us for a full year on and managed to stay to experience this year's summer grass.

That's really sweet.
Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for the reply!
I've done Baytril for a week, and she's on the dog loxicom 0.3ml twice daily, she was initially on once daily but the vet looked in her formulary after she had scratched her cornea badly and found out it can be given twice daily. We don't have zithromax but I will find if we can get it in. I would love to take her to a specialist the only problem I have is time I work long shifts and get the weekends off which is when the local specialist is closed. I will look at taking her further afield maybe.

As for the enucleation I think she's too old for it, I see a lot of older animals being put through sx and they don't cope well. I also believe there is something more going on.
I got home last night and she had spent the whole day sitting in her little castle, she didn't come out for her food or her leafy greens etc just sat in there all puffed up for the entire day. Later on before I went to bed I checked on her and she was loudly wheezing. I checked her over and she stopped again but it was a horrible noise.

Last night I thought tomorrow will probably be the day for pts if she doesn't drift off in her sleep but when I woke up this morning she was at her food bowl? It's so difficult to know what she's feeling.

Thank you so much for your advice!

If she is puffed up, she clearly is in pain and needs pain relief like loxicom.
There is always a certain up and down in these things where it doesn't hit quickly. Please consider how much are you prepared to put her through, seeing that she is decidedly not well.