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Specialist Breathing problems, otherwise ok...

S

StormyMidnight

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So our guinea pig (Stormy), nearly 5 years old, has for the past two weeks been wheezing, visibly struggling to breathe (as in, you can see her visibly taking her breaths, that was the first thing I noticed, secondly you can hear the air through her nose if you hold her up to your ear). Took her to the vet a couple days after first noticing this (it was milder then than it is now) - I had also only just noticed bumblefoot on one of her feet too - Vet could hear a wheeze in her upper respiratory tract but not in her lungs, and she was prescribed Baytril 0.2ml twice a day, plus 0.3ml x2 Loxicom for dogs as pain killer, plus Hibiscrub soak for the foot (although the latter I didn't do a very good job of as she wouldn't keep still with one foot in a bowl of it!) Ten days later took her back for a check up and the wheeze is now also in her lungs, so as the Baytril didn't seem to have made a difference vet suggested cutting all the meds (in case she was going to prescribe something different after x-ray next day) - no difference in Stormy at all by next day....

Meanwhile, Stormy has been totally & utterly normal throughout otherwise - still enthusiastically eating everything (hay, nuggets, veg, water) and is the first to rush to the side of the cage and prop herself up wheeking for veg (her wheeks are a bit croaky though). There is also no sign whatsoever of any discharge from her eyes, nose etc.

Next day (yesterday), still off the meds, we had her X-rayed, awake, only from above though, and the vet can see nothing at all wrong with her lungs, no fluid/pneumonia (thank god) etc. She said her stomach was a bit bigger than she'd expect with lots of poo and food and air, so we kept her separate from the others overnight just to make sure she is pooing & weeing normally - yep, lots of poops, and damp fleece, and hardly any white calcium deposits...

I am ringing the vet as agreed this afternoon to confirm pooing ok etc and to discuss what next. Vet's options are (a) sedate her in order to do more x-rays from different angles to check the front of her lungs etc, and possibly take swabs too to diagnose bacteria etc etc. She didn't want to do this when she otherwise seems so well, and I'd rather Stormy not have to go through this either if it isn't absolutely necessary (b) try steriods to open up her lungs - i've seen on other threads that steroids are not a good idea so I am going to refuse this - thankfully the vet herself said she was reluctant to do this anyway, esp prior to the x ray, in case there was a pneumonia. (c) I think there are other antibiotics she could try? FYI this is our local normal vet, prepared to refer us to the exotics specialists on the other side of town if she needs to (we've been to a couple of times before), but I think if she wanted to do that I'd want to go to Simon in Northampton instead, however, given the distance (we're in London) it would depend on what Simon would be doing I suppose...

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?! Both I and the vet are baffled given she's honestly seeming absolutely fine in herself. MAYBE the odd little curl up (upright, not lying down to sleep, which she also does) looking a bit more sorry for herself than she might do when completely healthy, but not much. The bumblefoot implies she's a bit under the weather and maybe in need of more vit. C, and i've been trying to increase the vit. C-high veg in her diet, but there hadn't been any change to her diet, or bedding etc etc at all.... Oh & all three other piggies who share the cage with her are fine. One thought I wondered about was whether she'd taken in some food or something that has gone to her lungs, given she doesn't otherwise seem ill - I did see her gag briefly about a month ago but then carry on as normal after that...

Sorry for all the waffly detail, wanted to give as much info as possible!
 
She did listen to her heart and said all seems normal, and that the lungs seem to be working ok ( as in breathing, taking in oxygen etc, albeit maybe faster breathing than normal) - we had a guinea pig Toffee who had sudden extreme breathing difficulties (couldn't eat either) who quickly ended up in an oxygen tank and had to be put to sleep in the end (couple years ago) - Stormy is nothing like that so far. We never found out what was wrong with Toffee because she was too ill to x-ray, poor thing, but it was probably pneumonia. Having said that, I probably knew less then than I do now about what to look out for etc...
 
Just spoke with the vet, who accepted my refusal of the steroids, and that I'd rather not sedate her for more x-rays etc yet, in case it actually causes her to deteriorate unnecessarily, obviously if she gets even worse I'd agree to that. Meanwhile, she's suggested switching to Bactrim to see if that gets her better. Having googled about that, sounds like that's okay to give a try... the vet needs to order it in, so I probably won't get it till Friday at the earliest. Here's hoping there's no change in her in the meantime!
 
Oh she's a cutie!

I agree with Weibke, it does sound like early onset heart issues which are relatively easy to manage with drugs (a combinaton of Fortekor and Frusol has worked magic for me in the past). It would also explain the bumble foot. Does she sleep very deeply too?

Re the breathing, you could speak to your vet about trying some diuretic meds and see if she reacts well to them which may answer the question about fluid on the lungs?
I have used the diuretic, Frusol (frusemide) very successfully in the past for heart/lung pigs as it helps get rid of any fluid and acts very quickly, you will know very quickly if this is the issue or not as the breathing improves within 24/48 hours. The liquid form is easier to work with as you can adjust at minute levels and they love the taste. Whilst Frusol can put a strain on the kidneys because they have to work harder to remove the fluid, they can prolong life and improve quality of life. and also help in eliminating other issues as you investigate her condition (without the use of Anaesthesia).
 
Thanks, the vet did say her heart sounded fine so I'm not sure really. I'll look into that. Do you mean Frusol would get rid of fluid on the lungs, or heart, or both? (She couldn't see any fluid on the lungs in the x-ray although that was only from the top)
 
I've looked up symptoms of heart problems and the only one other than the possible URI is the bumblefoot -she's not particularly lethargic or hard to wake up, she's not really less active than she has been, there's no hooting or anything like that... plus as i said the vet didn't see anything unusual about her heart yesterday.
 
Its actually really difficult for them to diagnose early heart issues as the heart pumps so fast, so sometimes it can be missed. The Frusol would move fluid from the lungs. Not sure about the heart, same I think but best to ask.

You will need to speak to your vet obviously but as the xrays were inconclusive its a way to check without sedating her for further xrays. i.e if you try the Frusol and it works quickly then you know its a fluid issue, if not then you can at least stop the medication look elsewhere. trial and error maybe? Not ideal but in an older more fragile piggy when you don't want to cause issues trial and error is sometimes a better option, particularly as these drugs are relatively gentle for short term use and provide signals to what may be going on. Same with the Fortekor.

Its not easy when you dont know what you are dealing with is it? They can be so troublesome sometimes! :luv:
 
Thanks, that does sound like a good idea. Unfortunately I tried ringing back but the vet has finished for the day and is not back until next week! I may need to call in the morning to see if there's another vet who would be happy to speak to me about this and prescribe the Frusol.... The way I left it earlier was that I was to ring back and ask them to order in the Bactrim (specially for me, so I'd have to pay for it) as another antibiotic attempt but now I'm not sure it's worth doing that! They can only get back to me tomorrow to confirm how much it'll cost and how soon they'd have it there for me to pick up....
 
I’d try and speak to the vet first (maybe another one) you can administer most antibiotics with Frusol. Only issue is that if she improves you won’t know which helped and therefore you’re still in the realms of the unknown.
 
Thanks. Nothing else I can do tonight, will ring the vet in the morning. At least there's been no change in her for the past week and that she's eating as much as ever!
 
FYI I spoke to another vet (at the same surgery) today and she wanted to try Bactrim first before Frusol, she had looked at the x-ray too and said there was no sign of anything wrong with the heart or any fluid... so i'm picking it up tomorrow. Meanwhile, no change in Stormy, despite being off all meds since Monday...!
 
Slightly left field suggestion, but could an allergy be a possibility? With the sudden mild weather over the last couple of weeks there’s a lot of tree pollen about...
 
Hi, thanks, the vet left me a message today saying it turns out Bactrim has been discontinued?! Not sure if they meant just from the place they order it or altogether... I need to ring them tomorrow to find out what other options they've figured out... Thanks for the suggestions.
Re allergy - the vet said there was no sign of allergies in the x-ray either.
 
So yesterday the vet had a listen to her breathing again and says it doesn't sound any worse than a week ago (despite having taken no meds at all). Turns out it's just the form of Bactrim they used to get that has been discontinued and so she's been able to prescribe either Co-trimoxazole or Septrin instead for me to collect from a pharmacy (about to do so now). 0.6ml twice a day, 40mg/200mg / 5ml concentration. From checking online, looks like the right dose. She didn't want to prescribe Frusol yet as she's adamant she can't see on the x-ray or hear any sign of it being a heart issue and doesn't want to cause other potential problems/take risks with the side effects.

If these antibiotics don't work or she gets even worse, we'll reassess... There are also the other two antibiotics you suggested Furryfriends (hello!) which she said are stronger so could try those later if the other doesn't work...
 
Sigh... wandered into 4 different places this afternoon, none of which had either option in stock... will have to ring around places tomorrow to try and get hold of some... Meanwhile I might actually give Stormy some Loxicom, as when she's not wandering around eating or running up for veg etc she's sat in a fluffy ball, it's rare that I see her comfortably curled up to sleep any more so I do think she might be in a bit of pain. It must be so annoying to be labouring to breathe like that all the time :(
 
StormyMidnight said:
Sigh... wandered into 4 different places this afternoon, none of which had either option in stock... will have to ring around places tomorrow to try and get hold of some... Meanwhile I might actually give Stormy some Loxicom, as when she's not wandering around eating or running up for veg etc she's sat in a fluffy ball, it's rare that I see her comfortably curled up to sleep any more so I do think she might be in a bit of pain. It must be so annoying to be labouring to breathe like that all the time :(
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I’m sorry she’s poorly. Yes she sounds in pain if she’s fluffed up in a ball. I hope she can get better soon. If she’s in pain, she’s unlikely to eat so may have to start stepping in with feedings...
 
Elthysia said:
I’m sorry she’s poorly. Yes she sounds in pain if she’s fluffed up in a ball. I hope she can get better soon. If she’s in pain, she’s unlikely to eat so may have to start stepping in with feedings...
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That's the thing, she's eating fine and not losing weight! At least, no more than 50g (she's normally between 0.950-1kg, she's 950g tonight. I'm keeping an eye on that daily.

furryfriends (TEAS) said:
When my rabbit has breathing issues, he swallows lots of air and then becomes bloated and in pain. Could this be happening with Stormy?
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Oh that is a very good point given what the vet said about her stomach in the x-ray (looking big and more air/food/poop in it than she'd expect - that's why we separated her that night to check she was pooing all right, which she was), and she still does have a pretty rounded tummy although she's always been that shape (pear-shaped) but yep might well be more than usual..! What can I do to help with that?
 
StormyMidnight said:
That's the thing, she's eating fine and not losing weight! At least, no more than 50g (she's normally between 0.950-1kg, she's 950g tonight. I'm keeping an eye on that daily.



Oh that is a very good point given what the vet said about her stomach in the x-ray (looking big and more air/food/poop in it than she'd expect - that's why we separated her that night to check she was pooing all right, which she was), and she still does have a pretty rounded tummy although she's always been that shape (pear-shaped) but yep might well be more than usual..! What can I do to help with that?
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We give Mr Trouble Zantac and Emeprid when his tummy gets gassy.
 
Thanks. Maybe I should look into something like that.
Here she is 'sleeping' right now :)
 

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Just been reading another thread about bloat and been reminded about certain types of veg - I should probably also cut down the amount of spring greens & kale she's having (though I wanted to make sure she was getting plenty of vit. c.) Our piggies have twice daily a bunch of a combination (so not necessarily all of these every day) of peppers, chicory, spring greens, romaine lettuce, tomato, cucumber, kale, herbs (parsley, coriander & dill), carrot, fennel.... I've also been adding a segment of an orange sometimes to Stormy's (she eats veg separately to the others so they don't steal hers, as she still has it cut into strips since having her bottom teeth removed)
 
Still no luck with pharmacies, one place I rang looked to see if they could order it but said it too had been discontinued! (not sure which one). Taking Stormy back in again tomorrow afternoon as she needs her front teeth burred too anyway (regular thing, bottom teeth were taken out a while back, just realised how long they're getting!), so will see what the vet comes up with... It's getting a bit ridiculous and wondering whether I should take her to the exotics specialist now really... Although she's not getting any worse, I know it's not a good idea to just keep ignoring it, is it...
 
I’m totally confused! Why are you having to source the medication? Your vet should be doing this. Did they give you a prescription? It seems totally wrong that you’re having such a delay, when your guinea pig needs the medication now.
 
The place they normally order it from had discontinued it (Bactrim, or its equivalent), so she wrote a prescription for a couple of others of the same stuff in hope I could get them from a pharmacy. Does anyone know if Bactrim or its equivalent has in fact been discontinued entirely as it does seem like it?
 
Oh dear god you are having a really bad time with this! My heart goes out to you. What vets have you tried? Is there no way you could take her to RSPCA? I’m assuming they’ll have everything seeing as they deal with unlimited illnesses xx
 
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