breeder with dalmations

[bsjlmb]

i'm sitting here waiting for the family to get up and found myself looking through the classified ads - i know it's silly as you see animals in need and cannot help them all! anyway, i came across a breeder and her website. she is so proud of her sows that she uses for breeding especially her 'rare' dalmations. after reading everything on her site i'm afraid i couldn't resist anymore - i had to email her. i simply explained the dangers of breeding dalmation and roans and how irresponsible it is to go ahead with it. i wasn't nasty in anyway just straight to the point. there were several things on there that i think were wrong but a lot that she had got right - but at the end of the day she is still breeding from them regularly. maybe if she doesn't know about the dalmation/roan breeding she will look into it now. i can only hope.

 

[twiams]

Oh you sound like me scanning the free ads haha !

I'm glad you took the time to email her and hi-light the dangers, just hope she listens to you ! (:

 

[herriotfan]

It will be interesting to see if you get a reply.

 

[bsjlmb]

Oh you sound like me scanning the free ads haha !

I'm glad you took the time to email her and hi-light the dangers, just hope she listens to you ! (:

i tried to get a guinea pig of another classified ad yesterday. they wanted £25 ono for it with the cage. when i looked at the cage it was tiny and it was outside. the cage was an indoor cage and it was obvious that it was living outside. i text them and asked if they had it and they replied 'yes'. so i asked if they would take £15 (thought i would be cheeky) but they said 'no'. so i asked what they would except been as they had advertised 'or nearest offer' and they replied seconds later saying it was sold! i got 2 other people to contact them for me but it was no use. the advert has now gone off the site so i am praying that it has gone to a good home. the cage had tins of paint stacked on top of it, was unsheltered and the pink plastic base was absolutelt filthy from the rain splashing up it. poor piggy didn't deserve this. i hope you have a wonderful new home now - i did try to help you

 

[Guinea pigs <3]

I can't look at the ads purely for this reason, I would lie awake at night thinking about them all. However, I think the people who can do it and then send emails re education are brilliant - well done you, I too really hope that piggy went to a good home. Humans can be so horrid

 

[bsjlmb]

It will be interesting to see if you get a reply.[/QUOT

i got a reply today from the lady with these piggies. i don't think she was very happy with me. i was only hoping to point something out to someone who maybe didn't know the problems. if i help one piggy it has be for the better.
this is the reply i got:

Hi Sally,
I dont know your experience or knowledge with guinea pigs especially dal's, but i am aware that breeding dals and roans is extreemly dangerous when done incorrectly, however all my guineas are treated with the upmost respect and their health and wellbeing comes first everytime! I do not breed a dal to a dal thats not how its done! dals must be bred to a self black boar or a dal boar to a self black girl. and if your lucky you get some dal babies.

i would never risk the health of my piggies. they get the best of the best in everything right down to the most expencive guinea pig food on the market, whereas most breeders feed the cheapest is guinea pig food at all.
i have been to people who feed, rabbit, goat and horse food.
people who only use newspaper - i use thoroughbred shavings.
people who limit hay quanity - mine have an unlimited supply
people who only provide 150ml drinking bottles - mine have 600ml changed twice daily
mine have an unlimited supply of fresh veggies
and i have been to people who have them in cages where one mom is with several babies but barley space for the mom to sit still let alone move- my pens have been bespokly designed by myself for purpose and most of them have more than one cage each. and even one cage each is far bigger than the usual.

I appreciate your concern but wish you wouldnt judge !
Katharine

 

[Bekki]

Is it bad that id never trust a breeder that couldnt spell? Also what on earth are thoroughbred shavings? and what is wrong with newspaper lol.

Anyway as much as we dislike breeding it sounds like this breeder knows their genetics stuff.

Assuming thats copied and pasted?

I also fail to see what part of treating an animal with respect involves breeding them and making them suffer pregnancy and birth.

 

[bsjlmb]

Is it bad that id never trust a breeder that couldnt spell? Also what on earth are thoroughbred shavings? and what is wrong with newspaper lol.

Anyway as much as we dislike breeding it sounds like this breeder knows their genetics stuff.

Assuming thats copied and pasted?

I also fail to see what part of treating an animal with respect involves breeding them and making them suffer pregnancy and birth.

i completely agree with you. and yes - it was copied and pasted. i'm not going to bother replying - i think i have got her back up already even though i was only pointing something out just in case she didn't know

 

[Squidge]

'thoroughbred shavings' will be horse shavings, so large soft flakes, dust extracted.

 

[Bekki]

'thoroughbred shavings' will be horse shavings, so large soft flakes, dust extracted.

I suppose that is better than cheapy dusty ones ... though I am not a fan of shavings for my pigs they get all itchy on them ...

 

[Caz N Drummer]

Is it bad that id never trust a breeder that couldnt spell? Also what on earth are thoroughbred shavings? and what is wrong with newspaper lol.

Anyway as much as we dislike breeding it sounds like this breeder knows their genetics stuff.

Assuming thats copied and pasted?

I also fail to see what part of treating an animal with respect involves breeding them and making them suffer pregnancy and birth.

Sorry, Since when does spelling come into play about whether this person can look after their pigs, spelling doesn't feed them!
That's just an irrational dislike.

 

[Bekki]

Sorry, Since when does spelling come into play about whether this person can look after their pigs, spelling doesn't feed them!
That's just an irrational dislike.

Sending out a badly spelled and punctuated response screams unprofessional to me. It is not irrational. Professionals do not send out anything with errors in as it suggests incompetence. A professional (not the word id use) breeder would not want their name associated with shambles.

Spelling does not come into whether somebody can look after their pigs I agree, but somebody who breeds and sells/shows them is essentially a business with a reputation to keep.

would you buy a product from a website with spelling errors? its the same thing.

 

[Caz N Drummer]

What twaddle!

 

[Bekki]

What twaddle!

In your opinion maybe. In mine it is certainly not.

Basic spelling in communication with somebody is not exactly difficult , especially in a more formal response.

I couldnt care less about peoples english on facebook or forums btw, I am seriously rubbish and lazy when places like this.

If somebody cant get their letters the right away around how are they supposed to be able to draw all the genetics charts and follow the literature on genetics, like any good breeder should. Genetics gets really complicated especially with recessive alleles and the effects of other genes on the appearance of others. I'd expect a good breeder to know the exact genetics of each breeding animal as far as possible and al the genetics of the offspring, both phenotypes and genotypes that is.

 

[Caz N Drummer]

No one would argue that Einstein wasn't a genius, but he had flaws to him too, does that make him any less of a genius?
We aren't all perfect, like you, you aren't perfect, I'm not perfect.
Seen lots of rescue sites with shocking grammar and spelling, are they not trying to portray themselve as professionals?

 

[Bekki]

You can pick my thinking to shreds if you like, though its being rather pedantic out of everything thats been said to focus on that. I am entitled to judge things however I like according to my own logic.

Any business should act professionally; the spelling, grammer and tone of that particular email are very unprofessional. With a business first impressions count. I will not use a business even from something basic like a takeway if the menu is badly designed or there are silly mistakes in it.

No rescue would send that kind of response out, they are not a money making business either. As a rescue is run by volunteers their website is not their priority looking after sick animals, the rescues I have dealt with have been amazingly professional and helpful.

Unless you are in fact the breeder in question I do not see why you are being so defensive.

Breeding with roans or dalmatians or breeding to get them should not be encouraged IMHO, the breeder might sell these onto people who do not know what they are doing and then lethals appear and that is disgusting. In my opinion breeding of these types of pigs should be totally avoided. This was the whole point of this thread please get back onto topic.

 

[Caz N Drummer]

Oh dear me is all I can say mallethead, shameful, shameful response.

 

[rachelsharp]

Oh dear me is all I can say mallethead, shameful, shameful response.

It was a perfectly decent response, in my opinion.

 

[cami]

There are no dangers to breeding dals.

This person clearly knows what the genetic make ups are which is usually the sign of a competent breeder or at least one that has done their research on their chosen breed.

 

[Curwhibble]

I have to agree with those who said the breeder sounds like they know what they are doing.

Spelling and grammar doesn't come into it for me, they're not a business, they're not a rescue, but a hobby breeder. My priorities when looking at a breeder involve the care of their cavies and their knowledge on not only the varieties they breed but cavy care as a whole. Whilst a more educated e-mail would present a different image it wouldn't change the quality of the breeder.

The reply sounds reasonable given what was sent. As we do not know who the breeder sells to or even who this breeder is we can't really make assumptions that they'll sell the cavies onto others who intend to breed without full backup. As it stands I think she sounds like a reasonable hobby breeder with a decent grasp of the genetics at play with her favoured varieties.

I mean, if someone e-mailed me out of the blue and launched straight into the potential issues involved with breeding dalmatians based on the fact i'd mentioned that I was proud of them i'd be more than a little hurt, especially if they had not first asked about my mating plans or what I knew about the variety.

It's commendable that people are so passionate about the issue that they'll cold e-mail people about it though, even if the way they go about it isn't my preferred style.

 

[bsjlmb]

You can pick my thinking to shreds if you like, though its being rather pedantic out of everything thats been said to focus on that. I am entitled to judge things however I like according to my own logic.

Any business should act professionally; the spelling, grammer and tone of that particular email are very unprofessional. With a business first impressions count. I will not use a business even from something basic like a takeway if the menu is badly designed or there are silly mistakes in it.

No rescue would send that kind of response out, they are not a money making business either. As a rescue is run by volunteers their website is not their priority looking after sick animals, the rescues I have dealt with have been amazingly professional and helpful.

Unless you are in fact the breeder in question I do not see why you are being so defensive.

Breeding with roans or dalmatians or breeding to get them should not be encouraged IMHO, the breeder might sell these onto people who do not know what they are doing and then lethals appear and that is disgusting. In my opinion breeding of these types of pigs should be totally avoided. This was the whole point of this thread please get back onto topic.

this is exactly what i was trying to get at. i worry that these pigs will be sold to people who have no idea about them and go onto have lethals which is so cruel to let them into the world to suffer. i personally do not think these piggies should be encouraged especially by stating they are 'rare' as it will make people want them even more - leading to more pain and suffering. to be honest i think breeding piggies at all is wrong although it will always go in. if you have been on the receiving end of a piggy who has had a traumatic birth (my rescue one did) you will completely understand why. seems to me that this subject has stirred emotions - people certainly have different opinions on the subject and we are all entitled to our own thoughts.

 

[saddlebredgirl]

The breeder sounds like she knows what she is talking about. And spelling has nothing to do with how good a breeder is or her knowledge. My english spelling is awfull but that's just because my 1st language isn't english.
And newspaper is the worst bedding its cold and wet and smelly and they can't make a nest in it.

 

[Bekki]

I am sorry but lets get over the fact that I said I wont trust a breeder who cant spell, it wasnt just the spelling btw, it was the grammar, layout and tone of that message ... completely unproffesional. This is not the issue at hand so lets get back on topic. The attitude was the main problem, if was very defensive , far too defensive for somebody who knows what they are doing apparently ... either way this is rescue friendly forum which is not very friendly toward anyone who breeds. I do not support the breeding of dals or roans on purpose, I actually think these genes should be removed as far as possible from general lineage and that only professional breeders (which this person was not) should use them ... though no breeding at all would be better ... pets at home do a good enough job of flooding the market with pigs.

Newspaper is fine as bedding, it is only cold and damp when it is not changed. A lot of peolple here use newspaper. Id argue shavings are worse but I wont waste my time on that. As for building nests I have not encountered a pig that will make a nest, they just sprawl out in their cages.

 

[bsjlmb]

I am sorry but lets get over the fact that I said I wont trust a breeder who cant spell, it wasnt just the spelling btw, it was the grammar, layout and tone of that message ... completely unproffesional. This is not the issue at hand so lets get back on topic. The attitude was the main problem, if was very defensive , far too defensive for somebody who knows what they are doing apparently ... either way this is rescue friendly forum which is not very friendly toward anyone who breeds. I do not support the breeding of dals or roans on purpose, I actually think these genes should be removed as far as possible from general lineage and that only professional breeders (which this person was not) should use them ... though no breeding at all would be better ... pets at home do a good enough job of flooding the market with pigs.

Newspaper is fine as bedding, it is only cold and damp when it is not changed. A lot of peolple here use newspaper. Id argue shavings are worse but I wont waste my time on that. As for building nests I have not encountered a pig that will make a nest, they just sprawl out in their cages.

i agree. rabbits make nests for their furless babies - piggies do not need to

 

[saddlebredgirl]

How do you know this person isn't a professional breeder? She sure sounds like she knows what she is talking about. And writing bad english in terms of layout and grammer sure doesn't make a bad breeder of anyone?

 

[MrPiggle]

After reading all these posts, I must say it all does sound rather judgemental, whilst I agree pro rescue is always the best option however the breeder at least has some concept of genetics which is better than none at all.

Whilst emailing the breeder with good intentions to voice your concern may not seem a bad thing to you, to the breeder criticisms from someone she does not know may be hard to swallow hence her defensiveness.

Just thought id say.

Oh and as an after thought if animals "suffered" (I use that loosely as how can we truly measure it?) so much giving birth we best not have any guinea pigs or any pets at all for fear they may suffer in the breeding process.

None of this is to 'have a go' at anyone but just thought id say to join the debate.

 

[saddlebredgirl]

Yip I agree. I don't see it as animals suffering when they give birth. Or think about it like this then humans also suffer when giving birth because they give birth just like animals. Why do people see piggies as suffering when the give birth but all other animals like dogs and cats giving birth are just the same. So what I want to say is I totally disagree with that term. Animals don't suffer when giving birth or otherwise they wouldn't be made by God to be able to have babies.

 

[saddlebredgirl]

I only have a problem with overbreeding. That makes animals suffer.

 

[bsjlmb]

Yip I agree. I don't see it as animals suffering when they give birth. Or think about it like this then humans also suffer when giving birth because they give birth just like animals. Why do people see piggies as suffering when the give birth but all other animals like dogs and cats giving birth are just the same. So what I want to say is I totally disagree with that term. Animals don't suffer when giving birth or otherwise they wouldn't be made by God to be able to have babies.

humans chose to give birth. breeders make their animals - whether pigs, dogs, cats etc etc the poor creatures have no choice. how would you like it if after giving birth your insides fell out of you. would you consider that as 'not suffering?'

 

[MrPiggle]

Granted humans choose to give birth , and granted some irresponsible breeders/owners over breed there animals, like you I am totally against this.

BUT

Surely it must be considered that, if left in a "natural" (for use of a better word) , guinea pigs would inevitably become pregnant quite often and this involves no "choice"?

I'm not saying this is a good thing and I'm not trying to justify breeding I'm just saying