Broken Bond? Please Help.

[bizissocool]

I had two perfectly bonded boars. Someone needed me to take two more for an emergency so I attempted to bond, but it did not work out. One of my boys has a small cut on him and I do not know who it’s from. As soon as the other boys were introduced my bonded pair began fighting. Even with separation they’re still not getting along the same and even got into a small tussle (no blood drawn). Can I please get some advice on how to help them re-bond? My little boy also has a limp now and we have no idea how it happened but it could have been from that little fight between my boys. I’m also afraid it could have possibly been me from when he resisted me picking him up (I had to to check for cuts or injuries). Any advice at all is appreciated. We are trying to get him into a vet. Prior to this, they had never ever fought. I also do not know if it was his bonded buddy that drew blood. I had a lot of extra money when I got my piggies but something happened in my life and I really can't afford vet bills right now so I'm worried sick.

 

[Truffolo]

Your piggies won't stop fighting now and all need to be separated. The new piggies might still have their bond intact, but you need to assess this carefully by observing this pair on neutral territory. For their safety, your original piggies need to be separated and the harm done to their bond by the fight is most likely permanent. Piggies don't tend to forgive once they have drawn blood unfortunately. The original pair should be kept in separate cages side by side so that they have the benefit of some interaction, but cannot fight as they will harm each other if they are kept in the same cage. The bonding videos on the YouTube channel of the Los Angeles Guinea Pig Rescue are very good and can provide excellent guidance on how to bond safely. But I think the bond between boars, once they have fought, is sadly very likely to be over and beyond repair.

 

[bizissocool]

Your piggies won't stop fighting now and all need to be separated. The new piggies might still have their bond intact, but you need to assess this carefully by observing this pair on neutral territory. For their safety, your original piggies need to be separated and the harm done to their bond by the fight is most likely permanent. Piggies don't tend to forgive once they have drawn blood unfortunately. The original pair should be kept in separate cages side by side so that they have the benefit of some interaction, but cannot fight as they will harm each other if they are kept in the same cage. The bonding videos on the YouTube channel of the Los Angeles Guinea Pig Rescue are very good and can provide excellent guidance on how to bond safely. But I think the bond between boars, once they have fought, is sadly very likely to be over and beyond repair.

Thank you for your reply. One of my boars is going through puberty so, while rare, I may be able to rebond them after a few months based on what i’ve read online but until that happens (if ever) they will be in separate 2x4 cages and the other pair will be rehomed. I’m honestly devastated by this but I know it’s best for them to be separated regardless

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this

Unfortunately, attempting to add piggies into a bonded pair of boars is always going to cause problems and permanently broken bonds are a consequence of that, Boars can only ever be kept in pairs.

Please don’t get your hopes up that a few months is going to make any difference to them - we don’t see boars who fight during their teens go back together. Fall outs are due to incompatibility and that doesn’t ever resolve itself - once they are incompatible, it’s lifelong.

It’s the act of adding new piggies in with them (particularly if it wasn’t done on neutral territory; then they will also feel invaded) which has disrupted your original two boys enough to cause them to fight with each other. If that has broken their bond, then it is going to be permanent - they don’t ever change their minds about a piggy they can no longer get on with.

While during the teens is the time of highest hormone output, testosterone doesn’t actually start to fizzle out until they are 4 years and older. But even older piggies with a broken bond and incompatibility between won’t change with age.

I’ve added some guides below

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

If you really do feel you want to try them together again, then any bonding has to be done on neutral territory and following the guide below. I personally wouldn’t attempt it until he is at least 18 months-2 years old.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours

 

[Truffolo]

Piggies are very hormonal little creatures and cannot be desensitised like more sophisticated animals such as dogs, who are more humanised. There is no point trying to intervene, pigs either click or they don't as far as bonding goes. They live in hierarchies that dictate who can live in a cage with whom. No amount of training or exposure will change that unfortunately, especially with boars. It is great though that you have nice big cages and each boy has plenty of space. Many of us have side by side boars and they seem happy living this way. I am sorry things didn't work out. I hope you can find a good home for your second pair of boys

 

[bizissocool]

I’m sorry to hear this

Unfortunately, attempting to add piggies into a bonded pair of boars is always going to cause problems and permanently broken bonds are a consequence of that, Boars can only ever be kept in pairs.

Please don’t get your hopes up that a few months is going to make any difference to them - we don’t see boars who fight during their teens go back together. Fall outs are due to incompatibility and that doesn’t ever resolve itself - once they are incompatible, it’s lifelong.

It’s the act of adding new piggies in with them (particularly if it wasn’t done on neutral territory; then they will also feel invaded) which has disrupted your original two boys enough to cause them to fight with each other. If that has broken their bond, then it is going to be permanent - they don’t ever change their minds about a piggy they can no longer get on with.

While during the teens is the time of highest hormone output, testosterone doesn’t actually start to fizzle out until they are 4 years and older. But even older piggies with a broken bond and incompatibility between won’t change with age.

I’ve added some guides below

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

If you really do feel you want to try them together again, then any bonding has to be done on neutral territory and following the guide below. I personally wouldn’t attempt it until he is at least 18 months-2 years old.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours

I guess I’m just so confused about everything, people are saying they can’t be reintroduced but the guides on here say they can! I have no clue what’s true and what’s not and I’m a first time owner so I’m even more clueless. According to the guide you linked they can be together again so I’m so lost here

 

[Piggies&buns]

I guess I’m just so confused about everything, people are saying they can’t be reintroduced but the guides on here say they can! I have no clue what’s true and what’s not and I’m a first time owner so I’m even more clueless. According to the guide you linked they can be together again so I’m so lost here

Once a bond is completely broken they will refuse to go back together. Any attempt a rebond after a fight will cause a further fight. That is unfortunately the outcome of a fully broken bond.

If you feel you want to try them again then you can make that decision but you would need to prepared with oven gloves to step in if they do fight again. If that attempt also fails then you should never put them together again as it is then clear they can no longer tolerate each other.
If you do do it, ensure you fully follow the guide - completely neutral territory with no hides in the bonding pen.

 

[Truffolo]

Any attempt to reintroduce them would need to be on neutral ground in a well prepared run. Have oven gloves handy in case you need to stop a fight (to protect your hands from being bitten) but do not interfere. If a fight starts or if the piggies become very agitated and uncomfortable, the bond is broken and there is no point trying another reintroduction. The piggies have made their feelings for each other very clear and more attempts to reintroduce them will result in greater agitation and animosity Fallen out boars can live in side by side cages, but are not safe together in one cage

 

[bizissocool]

Once a bond is completely broken they will refuse to go back together. Any attempt a rebond after a fight will cause a further fight. That is unfortunately the outcome of a fully broken bond.

If you feel you want to try them again then you can make that decision but you would need to prepared with oven gloves to step in if they do fight again. If that attempt also fails then you should never put them together again as it is then clear they can no longer tolerate each other.
If you do do it, ensure you fully follow the guide - completely neutral territory with no hides in the bonding pen.

Once a bond is completely broken they will refuse to go back together. Any attempt a rebond after a fight will cause a further fight. That is unfortunately the outcome of a fully broken bond.

If you feel you want to try them again then you can make that decision but you would need to prepared with oven gloves to step in if they do fight again. If that attempt also fails then you should never put them together again as it is then clear they can no longer tolerate each other.
If you do do it, ensure you fully follow the guide - completely neutral territory with no hides in the bonding pen.

The keep calling out for each other and searching around the cage like they do when I have to take one out for a nail trim or something. They don’t seem happier without each other which breaks my heart. Does this mean their bond isn’t totally broken? I’m sorry for asking so much on this thread but I don’t know anybody in real life that knows much!

 

[Piggies&buns]

The keep calling out for each other and searching around the cage like they do when I have to take one out for a nail trim or something. They don’t seem happier without each other which breaks my heart. Does this mean their bond isn’t totally broken? I’m sorry for asking so much on this thread but I don’t know anybody in real life that knows much!

Not necessarily - how they behave once separated or how they behave between bars is not necessarily an indication of their ability to have a functioning hierarchy and bond.
For example - separated boars who lay together either side of a divider are not displaying a willingness to be together. This kind of behaviour is simply a territory marking behaviour making sure the other doesn’t invade.

If you feel you want to try to reunite then you can go ahead and try. We can only give general advice but can’t see what actually occurred or what is occurring now. For example, Sometimes owners will use the word fight when that is not actually what happened.

 

[CTWC]

Did you say you weren't sure who had caused the injury?

 

[bizissocool]

Did you say you weren't sure who had caused the injury?

yes, I’m unsure. It happened one of the few moments I wasn’t looking (of course lol)

 

[bizissocool]

Not necessarily - how they behave once separated or how they behave between bars is not necessarily an indication of their ability to have a functioning hierarchy and bond.
For example - separated boars who lay together either side of a divider are not displaying a willingness to be together. This kind of behaviour is simply a territory marking behaviour making sure the other doesn’t invade.

If you feel you want to try to reunite then you can go ahead and try. We can only give general advice but can’t see what actually occurred or what is occurring now. For example, Sometimes owners will use the word fight when that is not actually what happened.

I really appreciate the advice! I will be keeping them separated indefinitely as I only want the best and most safe environment for them.

 

[CTWC]

I'm just wondering if it wasn't your original two that fought maybe their bond hasn't broken? I'm absolutely NO EXPERT though but I'm not sure everyone has realised you don't actually know who fought

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm just wondering if it wasn't your original two that fought maybe their bond hasn't broken? I'm absolutely NO EXPERT though but I'm not sure everyone has realised you don't actually know who fought

OP did actually say in the first post:

‘As soon as the other boys were introduced my bonded pair began fighting’.
There is also a mention of a small tussle even after the new boys were removed

 

[CTWC]

I apologise

 

[Truffolo]

I really appreciate the advice! I will be keeping them separated indefinitely as I only want the best and most safe environment for them.

That's fine, lots of us have boars living in their own pads with their former cage mate alongside in his own cage. They seem to be fine like this