Brothers - is their bond doomed?

[Lubblobba]

I got two brothers at 2 months old. They both got very sick and I had to separate them and nurse them back to health.

It must have been 3-4 weeks later that I read all the guides on here for bonding and attempted a rebond. There was lots of chasing and mounting but also loads of popcorns, lots of eating together and they seemed happy. I made a terrible mistake of putting them in one carrier together while I cleaned their cage and they had a fight.

I separated again for another 6 weeks as I've been really unwell and wasn't sure what to do. I rebonded again and this time it went even better. Some mounting and chasing but mostly sitting together eating.

The problem is Jacob seems to be dominant and he is perfectly nice to Jasper, but Jasper is constantly rumble strutting, putting his face is Jacob's bum and face and rubbing up to him. Jacob seems to like his space which is understandable and will put up with Jasper to a point. He tells Jasper off nicely but clearly has got tired of it.

I noticed that they started having stand offs with chattering but neither were conceding. I'm giving Jasper meds daily for fungal and noticed he had two bites on his lip and decided to separate.

The problem is they seem to be bonded? They are constantly calling for each other and trying to get to each other, and that is still after the however many weeks/months they were apart but nearby. There's 1-2 meters between their cages. They were adjacent but the bar biting was unbearable.

I'm not sure what to do. It seems like they like each other, they get on well when Jasper isn't rumble strutting. When they're apart they want to be together. But Jacob is tired of being poked constantly.

I'm not sure what the best thing to do is? They're 6 months so hormones are rife. It would be easier if they didn't like each other. Neither of them care about my other two pigs either, only each other, which suggests they're bonded. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Queen of wands]

I’m no expert but I tried a couple times like you . But the last time it was full tornado fur flying and in less then 5 min , and so now I know . They started together but graham just wouldn’t let him eat he would hear him munching and race out and chase him so I separated Hershey was so much happier , I tried again a while later cause they seemed to like each other at the bars , it wasn’t good they where together less then a week that time , months later give it another shot , hard noooo! Personally that was heaven sent for all of us , we have a beautiful zen thing going and I will not be trying again until someone is out of puberty . I found it very stressful and really regretted not getting girls, but NOW I couldn’t be happier they are so playful and sweet

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

It can be that two piggies do like each other but can’t function together - can’t live together, can’t be apart. It is likely in these situations that they will be better to remain separated though. They can still interact between the bars - this is why their cages need to be much closer together though. Piggies can only see clearly to around 30cm or so, so 1-2 metres apart is removing a lot of interaction and communication via body language.
I would slowly begin to move their cages closer together, a little at a time so they can get used to it over time.
Do be careful not to confuse any territorial behaviours between the bars as a desire to be together in the same cage. Things like laying against a divider together is actually marking a boundary rather than wanting to cuddle up.

If they were both ill (with the same thing particularly) we would not have actually recommended you separate them (unless them becoming ill was the catalyst for bond issues to come to light in which case a fall out may always have occurred whether they were medically separated or not). Medical separations are known to be contributing factors to dysfunctional or broken bonds and there is often no real need to separate unwell piggies.

Bonds In Trouble

 

[Lubblobba]

I’m sorry to hear this.

It can be that two piggies do like each other but can’t function together - can’t live together, can’t be apart. It is likely in these situations that they will be better to remain separated though. They can still interact between the bars - this is why their cages need to be much closer together though. Piggies can only see clearly to around 30cm or so, so 1-2 metres apart is removing a lot of interaction and communication via body language.
I would slowly begin to move their cages closer together, a little at a time so they can get used to it over time.
Do be careful not to confuse any territorial behaviours between the bars as a desire to be together in the same cage. Things like laying against a divider together is actually marking a boundary rather than wanting to cuddle up.

If they were both ill (with the same thing particularly) we would not have actually recommended you separate them (unless them becoming ill was the catalyst for bond issues to come to light in which case a fall out may always have occurred whether they were medically separated or not). Medical separations are known to be contributing factors to dysfunctional or broken bonds and there is often no real need to separate unwell piggies.

Bonds In Trouble

The issue with them being separated but adjacent was they were gnawing bars and desperately trying to get to each other, do I just push through this and hope it settles down?

Jasper was hospitalised and we needed to ensure he was pooping so they were adjacent but a grid between. Then Jacob went downhill and stopped pooping so we had to keep an eye on him, but will bare in mind for the future thank you.

 

[Piggies&buns]

The issue with them being separated but adjacent was they were gnawing bars and desperately trying to get to each other, do I just push through this and hope it settles down?

Jasper was hospitalised and we needed to ensure he was pooping so they were adjacent but a grid between. Then Jacob went downhill and stopped pooping so we had to keep an eye on him, but will bare in mind for the future thank you.

Slowly push their cages closer together over time so they can gradually get used to being closer.
Their cages need to be as close together as possible but you are likely to see dominance between the divider - that’s normal for at least a time

I’m sorry they were unwell.
Just for further information pooping isn’t an adequate reflection of food intake. Poop output is delayed by 1-2 days behind food intake so doesn’t provide any useful real time information. Only daily weight checks provide the necessary food intake information (weekly weight checks should be done as routine lifelong care, switching to daily when there are health concerns). We would not recommend separation to monitor poop output in any event.

 

[Queen of wands]

I blocked it a bunch of times I have a coroplast piece ready to go but they learn there smart , I did say oui ! Oui to let them know . Another thing that has helped me is their “blanket” so I put it in at night and when I clean I hang it on the grids , when I get them out at all I use their blankies with there scent on it !

 

[Queen of wands]

You just gotta get creative with boys if you hold one then you hold the next one and they get weird lol. But they are really great I love my boys and mine sit right at the bars to wait for me or watch nanalan because it’s where I sit so I can interact with both of them without having to get up and go to the other cage I’m to old for that

 

[fluffysal]

Please don't regret having boars. As they get older they really chill and, mine in particular, are very soppy, silly and affectionate. My boys have lived as happy neighbours for nearly a year as my younger one is fear aggressive due to being alone as a pup.

 

[Lubblobba]

Slowly push their cages closer together over time so they can gradually get used to being closer.
Their cages need to be as close together as possible but you are likely to see dominance between the divider - that’s normal for at least a time

I’m sorry they were unwell.
Just for further information pooping isn’t an adequate reflection of food intake. Poop output is delayed by 1-2 days behind food intake so doesn’t provide any useful real time information. Only daily weight checks provide the necessary food intake information (weekly weight checks should be done as routine lifelong care, switching to daily when there are health concerns). We would not recommend separation to monitor poop output in any event.

Thanks, I will try this.

I had a boy last year become very ill suddenly but didn't lose weight. He was still eating but less than usual. The vet didn't mention hand feeding. It was only when I noticed no poop I rushed him to a vet again but it was too late. Hence the separation with the two brothers, but I didn't realise it could strain/break a bond.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes, separating causes stress - it consequently lowers the immune system which can make recovering harder; plus it can break bonds.

I’m sorry for your loss.
I’m sorry the vet didn’t tell you the importance of syringe feeding - it can be literally life saving. Still eating does not mean they are eating enough. They need fibre constantly running through their gut but even a small reduction in intake can be detrimental if it isn’t caught and syringe feeding isn’t started.
As I say watching poop is very unreliable. By the time you see no poop they already haven’t eaten either enough or at all for up to two days and that then means stasis has begun and the opportunity to syringe feeding promptly has been lost. Recovering from stasis can be a difficult road.

 

[Lubblobba]

Yes, separating causes stress - it consequently lowers the immune system which can make recovering harder; plus it can break bonds.

I’m sorry for your loss.
I’m sorry the vet didn’t tell you the importance of syringe feeding - it can be literally life saving. Still eating does not mean they are eating enough. They need fibre constantly running through their gut but even a small reduction in intake can be detrimental if it isn’t caught and syringe feeding isn’t started.
As I say watching poop is very unreliable. By the time you see no poop they already haven’t eaten either enough or at all for up to two days and that then means stasis has begun and the opportunity to syringe feeding promptly has been lost. Recovering from stasis can be a difficult road.

Really wish I'd known. But thank you, I do now, so I appreciate it!