Bullying? - new bond

Aw, he’s gorgeous ❤️ how lovely, he‘s going to get a lovely new home with you and Little x or BB
I saw you were looking for a piggie train and in normal circumstances I would have tried to help with us being in Cornwall the next county to Devon but with Ted being poorly I couldn’t commit to anything solid as I just didn’t know how he was going to recover. We are up to Northampton on Wednesday all being well x
 
Bill & Ted said:
Aw, he’s gorgeous ❤ how lovely, he‘s going to get a lovely new home with you and Little x or BB
I saw you were looking for a piggie train and in normal circumstances I would have tried to help with us being in Cornwall the next county to Devon but with Ted being poorly I couldn’t commit to anything solid as I just didn’t know how he was going to recover. We are up to Northampton on Wednesday all being well x
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Hopefully he likes at least one of the boys! Aw thank you anyway, luckily we can manage ourselves :) Hope your trip to Northampton goes well.

It might not be for a while that we find out if the boys will get on. Think we’re going to quarantine for 2 weeks but I’m a bit unsure. I know that piggy was vet checked but going to have to ask when. My worry is that he’s old, won’t know where he is and won’t even have the sound of another piggy for comfort. I don’t want him to die from stress so trying to decide whether to quarantine or put him in a cage side by side with Little. But then, don’t want Little to catch anything that new pig might have since he’s old too. It’s a hard one. Don’t know what to do for the best!
 
Little Ones said:
Hopefully he likes at least one of the boys! Aw thank you anyway, luckily we can manage ourselves :) Hope your trip to Northampton goes well.

It might not be for a while that we find out if the boys will get on. Think we’re going to quarantine for 2 weeks but I’m a bit unsure. I know that piggy was vet checked but going to have to ask when. My worry is that he’s old, won’t know where he is and won’t even have the sound of another piggy for comfort. I don’t want him to die from stress so trying to decide whether to quarantine or put him in a cage side by side with Little. But then, don’t want Little to catch anything that new pig might have since he’s old too. It’s a hard one. Don’t know what to do for the best!
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It’s a bit of a dilemma wondering what to do for the best? If he looks ok and is acting normally I would be inclined to put him near Little and BB but I should imagine that goes against common sense ☺
 
I'd put him near at least, so he can hear them as it might be a shock for him after all those years alone. Even if quarantine wasn't an issue it might be gentler to encounter other guinea-pigs at a distance first without contact? He's not been near enough to another pig to catch much for some years!
 
Yes, I agree. It’s not like a pet shop piggie that’s ppp been with lots of piggies from a breeder
 
Free Ranger said:
I'd put him near at least, so he can hear them as it might be a shock for him after all those years alone. Even if quarantine wasn't an issue it might be gentler to encounter other guinea-pigs at a distance first without contact? He's not been near enough to another pig to catch much for some years!
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Bill & Ted said:
Yes, I agree. It’s not like a pet shop piggie that’s ppp been with lots of piggies from a breeder
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That’s true, the most he could catch would be mites from the hay or something, surely? I’m not sure what illnesses are transmittable to piggies. I read that the purpose of quarantining in a separate room is to do with fungal spores (which makes sense) but also so nothing can be transmitted through breathing, so URI for example.
They seem like decent enough owners (the mum, anyway - not so much the dad). Granted, there’s some things that aren’t right such as being in a hutch outside and having straw for bedding but they make sure he eats veggies and herbs and they seem to care about him. They did take him to the vet at some point, after all. I think something like fungal or a URI would be noticeable fairly easily when I take a look at him?

The plan was for when new piggy eventually meets Little, it would be through the bars for a couple of days. I don’t like the idea of just putting both boys together as I don’t think new pig (really need to think of a name, lol) will know what’s going on. Perhaps I should just put him in the same room, new pig could perhaps have his cage on a desk, with the other cage on the floor beside it? Since he’s old he won’t be as resilient health-wise, so I don’t want him to get a stress related illness by him feeling completely alone. I’m thinking I will have them in the same room the more I’m writing this! If he was younger, I’d think differently.
 
Piggy has been collected. He’s such a lovely piggy. Looks perfect health wise, doesn’t mind the travelling at all and is eating his hay. He’s also had a drink of water. He really likes people, which is to be expected as people have been his sole companions.
We missed the train by one minute so will be waiting an hour for the next one.
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Ah he’s gorgeous ! I hope he and Little can get on .... I can envisage two old boys (boars) living out their senior years putting the guinea pig world to rights over some hay ! 🥰
 
Gorgeous. Hopefully he still knows how to interact with other piggies.
 
After seeing him and everything, we decided to forgo the quarantine and put them side by side. New piggy looks really healthy, very bright. He's quite bony and weighs 1137 grams. Very similar to Little.
As soon as I put them side by side, new pig was really excited. This was them during their first interaction:
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New piggy was really shoving his face through the grid too when Little would turn away so he’s very eager for the interaction!
 
Aw, just caught up! he is a little darling ❤️Have you thought of a name yet? He has been so good at travelling too, he’s like my Ted, he doesn’t mind at all either. How lovely, I hope everything goes well and Little has found a new quieter companion, this is such a lovely story. Lonely piggie finds new warm and loving home and a companion for happy times chilling out in their autumn years! 😀
 
Bill & Ted said:
Aw, just caught up! he is a little darling ❤Have you thought of a name yet? He has been so good at travelling too, he’s like my Ted, he doesn’t mind at all either. How lovely, I hope everything goes well and Little has found a new quieter companion, this is such a lovely story. Lonely piggie finds new warm and loving home and a companion for happy times chilling out in their autumn years! 😀
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We’re leaning towards calling him something like Digby or Diggy. I was really surprised with how well he travelled! I thought Little was a good traveller but new piggy was even better. He didn’t mind the train sounds, or the moving, he ate well and would come to the front of the cage to ask me for water. He also had some really deep sleeps too. It must be a lot less stressful for you when Ted has to see Simon. I was really worried new piggy would be so stressed but because he was really chilled out and enjoying himself well enough, that then made me less stressed out and less worried about him.
Fingers crossed they like each other! They’re wanting to interact through the bars but keep missing each other, lol. New piggy will stand there hoping Little will go over to him but Little can’t see anything, nevermind new piggy! Then to get new piggy’s attention, Little will bite the bars but Little has no bottom incisors so even though he’s trying his best, you can’t really hear anything 🤣
They’re both very eager to talk to each other which is good. Feeling a bit bad for BB as he’s really feeling sorry for himself. Hopefully if the retirement pair work out, BB can find himself a friend of a similar age. So we’ll have a high school/college and a retirement home next to each other!
 
Little Ones said:
We’re leaning towards calling him something like Digby or Diggy. I was really surprised with how well he travelled! I thought Little was a good traveller but new piggy was even better. He didn’t mind the train sounds, or the moving, he ate well and would come to the front of the cage to ask me for water. He also had some really deep sleeps too. It must be a lot less stressful for you when Ted has to see Simon. I was really worried new piggy would be so stressed but because he was really chilled out and enjoying himself well enough, that then made me less stressed out and less worried about him.
Fingers crossed they like each other! They’re wanting to interact through the bars but keep missing each other, lol. New piggy will stand there hoping Little will go over to him but Little can’t see anything, nevermind new piggy! Then to get new piggy’s attention, Little will bite the bars but Little has no bottom incisors so even though he’s trying his best, you can’t really hear anything 🤣
They’re both very eager to talk to each other which is good. Feeling a bit bad for BB as he’s really feeling sorry for himself. Hopefully if the retirement pair work out, BB can find himself a friend of a similar age. So we’ll have a high school/college and a retirement home next to each other!
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That sounds like a great plan. One step at a time, Little and D will be able to get to know each other for a little while through the bars and hopefully they will be a big hit with each other. Then you can think about BB and a little friend for him too x
So glad you managed to get him, he’s obviously been waiting for the right slave to come along and save him 😊
 
Bill & Ted said:
That sounds like a great plan. One step at a time, Little and D will be able to get to know each other for a little while through the bars and hopefully they will be a big hit with each other. Then you can think about BB and a little friend for him too x
So glad you managed to get him, he’s obviously been waiting for the right slave to come along and save him 😊
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We really fell in love with him straight away. His owner had him out on her knee when we arrived, I started petting him and he was just so comfortable and was giving everyone piggy kisses - it was just so adorable. He clearly likes human interaction, but it can’t replace piggy interaction! It warms my heart that after 5 years, he’s finally got some proper company
 
Thought I’d give an update. I also think it makes sense to keep all of our bonding things condensed into this one thread too.
Little seems very happy to be apart from BB, he just looks so much more happier and is sleeping with his eyes shut again in his cage.
BB isn’t doing so well. He constantly bites the divider between he and Little unless we cover it. He literally doesn’t stop. He’s been biting constantly for an hour now as that’s when we uncovered it. Last night it was covered. Also last night everyone got the same amount of hay each more or less. New pig and Little didn’t have too much left in the morning but BB’s looked practically untouched. We only split he and Little yesterday afternoon but he’s not doing so good. Not sure what to do with him? So any advice would be appreciated.
New pig is doing well. He’s a big drinker. He’s keen for interaction with Little. He also met BB through the bars when BB came out for a run. Their interaction was pretty much the same as Little and new pig’s and new pig wanted the interaction to last longer than it did. He’s doing well though. This morning, I put my bedroom light on and that was his cue to come out from his hidey as he wanted to interact with us. He’s very people orientated that’s for sure!
 
I would cover the divide between Little and BB for now. Perhaps you could move him so new pig is between them both? Maybe that could perk him up. Sounds like he wants to be back with Little but that’s not what Little wants. Can you contact rescues and see if they have any single boars you could try him with? I’d also start weighing him daily to see how he’s doing. If he’s losing you’d have to step in with syringe feeding.
 
Siikibam said:
I would cover the divide between Little and BB for now. Perhaps you could move him so new pig is between them both? Maybe that could perk him up. Sounds like he wants to be back with Little but that’s not what Little wants. Can you contact rescues and see if they have any single boars you could try him with? I’d also start weighing him daily to see how he’s doing. If he’s losing you’d have to step in with syringe feeding.
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We’ve just managed to find an acrylic sheet to put in between so he can’t bite the grids. I think I will put new pig between them both actually, I hadn’t thought of that.
We will be contacting rescues for him but we want to wait a bit first. New pig is intended to be Little’s friend but if it doesn’t work out then we will try him with BB so want to wait until we know what pairing we end up with! He’s not dealing with being on his own as well as the others though.
Right thanks, will get him weighed and start syringe feeding tomorrow if he’s losing.

Also, when do you think it’s best to try to bond? Tomorrow? Or perhaps longer?
 
Bonding started 6 minutes ago. Boys were split after 5 minutes. New pig was constantly mounting and humping. Little was squealing in submission or just trying to eat, but new pig was very hostile. Little gave some strong nips back when their faces met but ultimately new pig was really dominating. Might give it half an hour then try with BB?
 
I think if it was me I wouldn't try bonding the new pig with BB yet, but let the new piggy settle in for maybe a couple of weeks with BB as a next door neighbour, as it's all very new for him especially with not having my contact with other piggies for such a long time.
 
Well, once things calmed down we decided to try BB with new pig. The very same thing happened, incessant humping. It went beyond an acceptable level when we tried him with both our boys. Out of the two, new pig seemed to get along better with Little, I think? Little was very submissive until he had been humped for 5 minutes straight and started fighting back.
We’ve decided to leave new pig with bar interaction for either 1 week or two. It seems like it’s not a character comparability issue but rather perhaps some fear aggression? Though, BB seems to have fear aggression with Little and he and new pig behave quite differently. Maybe new pig just doesn’t know how to behave after so many years. Either way, we’re going to have bar interaction for a week or two before retrying a bonding. We’re also going to try and hold out for longer, it did look really bad but then we’re people and not piggies. Definitely think new pig needs a bit more time, though.
 
What did Little do when he was fed up of the humping? If new pig hasn’t lived with a guinea pig for a long time it may be the case he doesn’t know how to behave around one. Have you read through the levels of dominance to see where they were? Just be aware that interaction through the bars isn’t a guarantee that they’ll get on.

How was BB acting when you tried him with new pig?
 
Siikibam said:
What did Little do when he was fed up of the humping? If new pig hasn’t lived with a guinea pig for a long time it may be the case he doesn’t know how to behave around one. Have you read through the levels of dominance to see where they were? Just be aware that interaction through the bars isn’t a guarantee that they’ll get on.

How was BB acting when you tried him with new pig?
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It all sort of freaked me out, now that I look back on it. It all happened so fast, they are together 5 minutes.
Little and new pig (think we’re calling him Digby) were put in. Digby went straight for Little, mounting his back and humping, every time Digby would get off he’d be straight back on. After maybe 2 minutes of constant humping, Little began to squeal in submission. Digby carried on. Little would try and walk away but he’d be dragging Digby with him on his back. Then when Digby got off, Little would turn so their faces were in front of one another and give sort of like those warning nips to Digby’s nose, ears, upper head because Digby kept coming for him. I think we just panicked? I had been reading and re-reading the guides, but thought removing was probably for the best. Looking back, maybe I could’ve given them longer? It’s just that Little is frail, so we got worried. Digby does weigh the same as Little, though. The only dominance here that happened was the humping - and it did happen for the full 5 minutes. There was maybe only 30 seconds that Digby wasn’t on Little.

With BB, it was a lot worse. The same thing happened, but BB would somehow get Digby off face him. Digby would keep trying to get near BB’s butt which he didn’t like so at one point Digby humped his face. There was also a point where Digby ripped some of BB’s fur out with his teeth whilst humping, leaving him with a sore red spot. There was also wee squirting too. Those two were having what seemed to be an actual dominance match. There were a few instances where Digby would walk away but then BB would stalk after his butt and Digby would quickly run around and try to mount him. Those two were together about 10 minutes. There was a lot of noises from both of them, i don’t think any teeth chattering but I don’t remember. With them, the dominance behaviours were the humping, wee squirting, ripping out of fur and then chasing. There was a moment where BB submitted, but Digby still continued mounting/humping and so BB stopped submitting and got quite riled up.
Like I said, I read and re-read the bonding guide but I just couldn’t tell what to do. It sort of took me off guard. I’ve only ever done a bond twice in my life and neither have been so full on. I’ve also never seen mounting and humping until we got BB so it scares me a bit when it’s happening to Little.
The main thing is that Digby has an incessant need to be mounting/humping. Even when Little submitted, he sort of didn’t get the memo that he had to stop. Little’s nips were quite angry too. Digby just couldn’t read the signals that the other boys were giving him.

I know interaction through bars doesn’t guarantee anything, I’m just hoping that it might help him understand another pig a bit more, if that makes sense? Since the bondings happened, Digby has been quite annoyed on the whole. He rumblestruts when Little is at the bars but this also happens now when we pet Digby. It’s so strange.
 
After our failed bonding (Zara, we know it was you!) George and Zara were rumbling through the bars for the next couple of days but it did settle down. I'm guessing everyone gets riled up and then worries that the other one is going to somehow be able to get into 'their' bit of cage. Zara will still sit and glare at George but now he knows she can't get in he's not too worried. I called up Blue Cross for after-care advice and they said I should have perhaps left it longer before mixing them (like weeks or months?) but maybe I can try again in a few months (?) We'll see. Hindsight I suppose... but they were making all the right noises to each other. In Zara's case I don't think weeks or months would make a difference! She bitch-slapped George till he ran squealing for his life round and round the pen. Humping never came into it, it was just attack mode. Little will certainly be getting plenty of stimulation from his neighbours and new pig is in an infinitely better position than he was. It's a little crude but perhaps after 5 years he's just desperate for a shag?! After a few weeks he'll get to know the others better and it might be worth trying him with Little again, seeing as he didn't actually rip out his fur and Little didn't run away. It might be a good thing that you stepped in at that point before they decided that they didn't like each other. I would have done the same to protect Little. Oh these boars! :hug:
 
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