Bullying

guineapigz88

guineapigz88

Junior Guinea Pig
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Location
Perth Australia
Hi,

We are first time guinea pig owners, we have 2 males, which are brothers they are coming up to a year old, we got them when they were 8 weeks, about 3 months ago we got a de-sexed female, for the first few weeks there was no problems but just recently one of the males has started bullying his brother, and also mounting Minnie, the female, I have noticed that the male pig been bullied has scabs on his face and ear from his brother.

Have we made a big mistake getting Minnie, she is very chilled and just wants to eat. They live in a big c & C cage.

Should we separate the bully from the other two, who get along just fine, but then feel bad that Trevor the bully is alone.

Really worried about them.

I have read that males coming into teenage years can get feisty, but I have seen them fight, lots of teeth chattering and flying around the cage, I have also seen bits of fur around the cage, so they are biting.

Thoughts please ?
 
So you have two males neutered and one female together? How big is the cage also?

Sorry for the questions, welcome to the forum
 
If you have two boys and a girl it is a huge no unfortunately:(

This will almost certainly end up with fights as soon as the sows come into season.
You need two very laid back and chilled boars for it to work and that is so rare

Tagging @Wiebke for advice on what to do. Do you have space to split into two groups?
 
You could split Trevor then get him another friend male or a wifey pig
 
I recommend either getting two more un-sexed females or separating the male and getting him his own female or male.
 
Even if you spay the female which is a hugely risky operation they will still argue and try and hump her. this will drive the boys crazy even though neutered.

My advice would be to split before serious damage is done, I know this is not what you want to hear I am sorry. Wish there was a n easier fix
 
When there are more males than females, the males may begin to fight over the female whether they can wifey her or not. Having more sows than boars is best if you want to keep them in a group,but if not then separating them is another option if you are going to get another piggy for the separated one.
 
Adding a 3rd Cavy




You already have two females?
You can add another female or a neutered male. If one female is very dominant, you'll want to try to find a less dominant female.

You already have two males?
You can add another male. A younger male is usually a good idea if the pair is adult. If the pair is still young, adding an older male usually works and a young one could work but perhaps not as well as an adult.

You already have one female and one neutered male?
You can add another female.


Our advice is based on our experience of combining guinea pigs. The bottom line is one boar per group of females. We have not been able to successfully introduce a second boar to one or more females. It's a combination that rarely works. We have heard of a few cases of this working, but they have been in larger herds which have a significant degree of free-range space. They do not live in traditional cages, large or otherwise.

According to Social and Behavioral Requirements of Experimental Animals, "Guinea pigs live in groups of five to ten individuals in the wild (Sutherland and Festing, 1987) and thrive under group housing, although it is unlikely that two or more sexually mature males will live together without incident unless they have been together since birth." Remember the comment here is about mature males living together with females present. "In their natural environment, guinea pigs exhibit a strong herd or family orientation, and this should be maintained in the laboratory setting, if at all possible. The one boar per harem arrangement is the recommended procedure in breeding colonies. Guinea pigs should not be housed singly . . ."

When adding another guinea pig to a group, ALL social dynamics within the group will likely change. The social order will be disrupted and need to be resorted out from scratch.

Also, any time you remove a guinea pig from a group for any length of time, say a few days to a week, they usually go back through the entire social ordering process again. In other words, it's like doing introductions all over again.

Guinea Pigs Social Life
 
Thank you all for your replies, if we separated the female from the two males would the males stop fighting?
 
guineapigz88 said:
Hi,

We are first time guinea pig owners, we have 2 males, which are brothers they are coming up to a year old, we got them when they were 8 weeks, about 3 months ago we got a de-sexed female, for the first few weeks there was no problems but just recently one of the males has started bullying his brother, and also mounting Minnie, the female, I have noticed that the male pig been bullied has scabs on his face and ear from his brother.

Have we made a big mistake getting Minnie, she is very chilled and just wants to eat. They live in a big c & C cage.

Should we separate the bully from the other two, who get along just fine, but then feel bad that Trevor the bully is alone.

Really worried about them.

I have read that males coming into teenage years can get feisty, but I have seen them fight, lots of teeth chattering and flying around the cage, I have also seen bits of fur around the cage, so they are biting.

Thoughts please ?
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome

Unfortunately, even though Minnie won't come into season, she is and remains still a sow - and therefore a huge cause of contention between the two boars by her very presence. A boar can live with any number of sows, but a sow can't live with any number of boars unfortunately.

Please take out your dominant boy and ideally find him a character compatible companion of his own. This can be a another spayed sow (although they are generally rare) or having him neutered and then living with his own sow.
Cross gender bondings are the most stable of pairings, so I would recommend to rather opt trying to get your two boys through the hormonal teenage months as a couple, I would instead aim to find your more dominant boar his own perfect mate to live with.

For the time being, you can keep your dominant boar next to the other two with full interaction through the bars to keep him from becoming depressed while you are doing your research. Once you have two boars and any number of sows you will ultimately always end up with two cages, whatever you do.

Take the time to read the information in these links here. You will hopefully find them very helpful.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care

Since your options depend very much on your local availabilities as well as access to a good rescue or vet, we can only help you further with working out what is the best way forward if you please added your country, state/province or UK county to location in your account details (accessed by clicking on your username on the top bar). This will make it appear with every post you make and allow us to tailor any answer to what is available and relevant where you are straightaway. We have members and enquiries from all over the world and from very different conditions and backgrounds; so we have to keep any advice as general as possible to cover all bases. Thank you!
 
Thank you so much everyone has been so kind and helpful, we are in Australia, we got Minnie from a rescue, I am not sure we have space for another large cage and I think it would be too hot in summer to keep pigs outside, I really think we can only keep 2, what would be the best combination, I feel so bad that I have messed this up.
 
guineapigz88 said:
Thank you so much everyone has been so kind and helpful, we are in Australia, we got Minnie from a rescue, I am not sure we have space for another large cage and I think it would be too hot in summer to keep pigs outside, I really think we can only keep 2, what would be the best combination, I feel so bad that I have messed this up.
Click to expand...

Would you consider having another cage above the first one? We have got quite a few members that have gone down this way.
Here is a picture of my own set-up, which uses cheap Ikea tables that fit into the footprint of the lower cages and that I just lift with my shoulder when changing the bedding. It is not the space, but the principle I want to demonstrate!
IMG_2111_edited-1.jpg


If that isn't an option, please keep Minnie with the boy she is happy with and contact the rescue re. your other boy; cross gender bondings are much more stable. Any rescue that is not checking the situation into which they rehome their piggies is however not one I would consider good standard. Mixed gender pairings do not need quite as much space as boar pairs.
Cage Size Guide

Please do not keep guinea pigs outside; in summer it is too hot and in winter often too wet and cool for guinea pigs; not to mention snakes...
 
I think it depends on whether the boys can go back together after the disruption. Your options are to separate the dominant boy and get him a boar friend, or have him neutered and get him a wife. Or separate the sow and find her a sow or neutered boar. If you do the latter, you have to have her underneath the boys as the smell can cause a ruckus with the boys.
 
Thanks, I will have to have a think how to deal with this, we are definitely going to go up with the cage situation, it’s a really good idea.
 
Hi guys,

So I have been in contact with another rescue and they have a male baby age 4 weeks, who needs a home, we are going to make another cage above the original cage, thinking of keeping Minnie and the calm boy together and the dominent pig with the baby, what do you think. ?
 
You can try. But in any case make sure your sow and boy are below the pair of boys. That way her scent can’t travel upwards.

Are you taking your dominant boy to the rescue to be bonded or will you be doing it yourself?
 
Yes I can keep Minnie and Cory at the bottom, I will have to do the bonding myself as we live a long way from the rescue, they will take the baby back if it doesn't work out but I am still nervous about Trevor and the baby, I just hope because the baby is small he won't feel the need to bully him. I am going to do some research on bonding.
 
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