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Buttercup - Suspected Pneumonia

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FlowerGirl

FlowerGirl

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello!
I used to be a member here, not sure what has happened to my account but I'm glad to have re-found this forum! I'm hoping for some advice/general support as one of my girls is very poorly.

I currently have two girls, Buttercup and Daisy. I believe they are about three years old.

Over the past week, Buttercup has become very ill. What started as slightly decreased food intake has progressed to suspected pneumonia.

On Thursday evening she didn't come out for her evening veg (though she had been eating hay during the day), and on getting her to the vet on Friday morning she had gone from about 1kg at her previous visit to 860g, so she had probably been eating less than usual for a few days. The vet could find nothing obviously wrong with her (her breathing seemed ok at that point) so sent us home with metacam and metoclopramide.

I started hand feeding on Friday afternoon. On Saturday, I noticed her breathing was a little heavier than usual, but it was extremely warm so I (stupidly perhaps) put this down to the heat, as she got very warm on my lap during feeding and seemed to do better once in the (cooler) cage. By Sunday morning the breathing had become a little noisy so I took her to an emergency vet where she received oxygen and a baytril injection, and they were happy for her to come home after a few hours when her breathing had improved.

Last night (Sunday) she had some interest in her hay and ate for a short time, but today she's back to showing no interest.

She's currently on:
Baytril - 0.66ml once per day
Metacam (cat) - "2-3 drops" once per day (I've been giving 0.3ml, which I believe is slightly more than prescribed, I'm not sure if I should reduce that?)
Metoclopramide - 0.43ml twice per day

Today I've bought some Sudafed (chesty coughs) and given her 0.2ml, and am planning to continue that 2x daily based on previous advice. Is this still a good idea?

I've also got some rehydration treatment to give her alongside food, and Vitamin C tablets to crush and add to her feed (haven't started this yet - is adding to the syringe food best? or water?).

I'm hand feeding (currently mashed pellets with avipro plus, I'm waiting on some recovery food) every 2-4 hours round the clock but I'm only getting 1-5ml of food into her at a time. I'm pretty sure this is due to her breathing as she was much easier to feed on Friday when the breathing wasn't an issue. She's taking water or rehydration solution more happily so I'm giving her as much of that as she will take.

I'm worried that I'm not feeding enough, but I usually stop when she starts throwing herself around at which point it seems better for her breathing to put her back and let her calm down. (The vets stressed that her staying calm was more important than eating). I'm still really worried that this isn't going to be enough to keep her strength up though.

I have a nebuliser that I bought for a previous piggy with respiratory issues - I'm wondering if her breathing would benefit from a session or two with just saline, any opinions?

So yes, I'm a very worried piggy mum. I'm ready to take her back to the vet if her breathing gets worse or if she's not improved within the next day or so, but does anyone have any further suggestions for now? Things that I should or shouldn't be doing? Moral support?

Thank you!
 
I'm sorry she is so poorly. Did the vet mention whether she had fluid on her chest? if so she will also need a diuretic. When I have had pigs with Pneumonia I have found that Bisolvon can really help too as it helps clear the mucous in the nasal passages. I also used steam therapy in a steam inhaler with 2 drops of Olbas oil, and held it over the nose in 5 second bursts. There are stonger antibiotics too that tend to be more effective, and I got my Buzz through his first bout of it with Zithromax.

I am not experienced in using a nebuliser so I would run that past your vet.

The rehydration sachet I would usually suggest to give separately by syringe but if she is struggling with a syringe it may be better to put it in the syringe food. It sounds like you will need to feed little and often and slowly too is she is struggling to breathe.
 
Hi Helen, the vet didn't say if there was fluid on the lungs - he didn't do any diagnostics, just the oxygen and baytril. (Is it possible to tell if there is fluid on the chest from listening to her lungs?) He did talk about the possibility of x-rays and bloods to confirm pneumonia but there was a worry about sedating her (and also the cost, though if he had strongly recommended the diagnostics I would have gone ahead.) The only other possibility he mentioned was an allergy, which I think is unlikely?

The steam inhalation sounds like a good idea, I'm not sure how well she'd cope with having anything held over her nose but I might try a bowl of hot water on the desk next to her while I feed her and see if that makes a difference, hopefully the steam will travel far enough to make a difference? I do have an inhalation cup though so I'll give that a go first, just in case she does tolerate it.

She is actually taking the rehydration liquid, better than the feed, so I'll keep going with that at least.

I've just cleaned the cage and given them their evening veg, again she's ignored it and gone straight to bed but I'm hoping for a fresh poo from Daisy for some poop soup, going to attempt another feed and her evening emeprid soon.
 
A bowl next to her would help too. Yes a vet should be able to hear fluid by stethoscope, usually it sounds like they are under water.

If the vet could be a conscious xray that would be another way of confirming if there is fluid. Usually with Pneumonia there is.
 
The vet did mention a conscious xray but said that it would still require some sedation. That was the emergency vet though, I'll talk to my regular vet about it.

Unless her breathing is significantly better tomorrow morning I'm calling my regular vet, hopefully he'll be able to see her. It just took almost an hour to get 3ml of food in her, plus maybe 10ml of rehydration solution and her emerid. I tried the steam cup which didn't -appear- to make a difference to her breathing, but I may not have used it for long enough, I'll give it another go tomorrow.

Will also ask the vet about a diuretic. I'm tempted to ask about changing the ab too, either switching or adding doxy? But she only started the Baytril yesterday afternoon (it seems like a lot longer) so maybe I haven't given it enough chance.
 
Doxy is good too, but like you say they may want to try the Baytril for longer. If they can't do conscious hopefully it will just be a whiff of gas. My Rose is having one tomorrow and I have been told that's what she will have if it can't be done conscious. I would ask about Bisolvon too, it's great stuff.

When Buzz had Pneumonia he was on:

Zithromax
Bisolvon
Diuretic
Steam therapy
 
Ok, I'll be leaving for an appointment in an hour or so, I will ask about:

- Diuretic
- Bisolvon (I actually have a couple of sachets from a previous pig but unfortunately it's just past expiry, typical)
- Using the nebuliser (either with the bisolvon or saline or something else)
- Possibility of adding doxy in a day or two or his thoughts on a different ab
- Conscious xray

I'm hoping he might be willing to write me a prescription for the doxy (if he thinks it's appropriate) for me to get at a closer vet if it looks like she needs it in a day or two as it's a real trek (just over an hour each way) and I'm worried about stressing her out with the travel.

Thanks so much, Helen, I feel much better about this appointment now, hopefully we can get Buttercup more comfortable asap, I feel so bad for her at the moment.
 
Ok, hopefully I can remember more or less what happened at the vet (I've been quite emotional and sleep deprived so hopefully I understood everything that was said!)

He took a concious xray, which showed one of her lungs is much more inflamed than the other. He said her lung capacity is extremely reduced and that basically, it will probably be very difficult to sort out. It sounded like it was near the "worst case scenario" end of the scale. At one point I thought he was going to recommend putting her down there and then but he suggested giving her until the end of the week to give the Baytril a chance. If she does improve, I'll take her in next week for another xray.

He gave her an injection of a bronchodilator and a bottle of F10 for the nebuliser, to use a couple of times a day for 5-10 minutes. I asked about the diuretic and he said it probably wouldn't do much good with this kind of inflammatory fluid build up, as it's more used for heart congestion. He also said he thought it was very likely to be sensitive to Baytril so he didn't think the doxy was worth adding at this point. He was very patient and answered all of my questions, definitely worth the long journey.

She's had her first treatment with the nebuliser and I felt like she was breathing a bit more easily afterwards, but that may have been wishful thinking.

The best news is that she perked right up when I came in with their dinner this evening (a huge change from yesterday) and had a little go at some veg. She didn't eat for very long before going back to hide but it's given me a tiny bit more hope. I'm hoping this means her breathing is easier at least so I might be able to get a bit more syringe food into her, and fingers crossed she'll have a go at some hay at some point too.
 
That sounds a very productive appointment. I don't quite agree on the diuretic but I am not a vet, Sounds like the bronchodilator has helped though and with the nebulising aswell, hopefully there will be some improvement.
 
Buttercup's breathing has improved a lot in the past week, her appetite seems to be very slowly improving, she's eating a lot more syringe food (and much more willingly), is more interested in her veg and has started to show very tiny signs of interest in her hay again (she's starting sleeping and rooting around in it again, though I'm not convinced she's actually eating any yet). She has also put on a small amount of weight and has maintained that for the past 3 days (she's staying at about 850g now, up from 800g last week).

I'm still trying to feed every 2-4 hours, and we're up to about 70ml of syringe food a day now...the last couple of days I've had some 5-6 hour gaps when I thought she was eating a bit more for herself, but she's been particularly quiet and her breathing seems not as good as it has been today so I'm going to go back to the more regular feeds as it looks like she does still need the extra support. (I hope that's all it is and not the infection getting worse again...)

I'll call the vet first thing to make another appointment this week, will hopefully get another xray and talk to the vet about further action. I only got enough Baytril to last another few days and I don't want to stop before the infection is completely cleared, so hopefully he can advise on how long to continue for.
 
Her breathing isn't too bad today but she's a lot quieter than she has been and she's not looking as comfortable in the cage, this definitely feels like step back. We're going back to the vet in the morning, she's still taking syringe food (not as much in one go and more slowly than she has been but still willingly). I stopped using the rehydration solution a few days ago when she was eating a lot more as she seems to prefer the plain water, but I've started her back on that too, and feeding every couple of hours today.

Her poos haven't been normal for over a week now (mostly just very small, sometimes clumped together with the occasional normal looking one), I'm assuming that's due to a mix of the baytril and lack of hay, but I wonder if it's her digestion which is causing the problems now. I'm giving Avipro mixed with her food, I'm wondering if I should try something else to help counter the antibiotics though. I'm so gutted as she was really starting to look so much better.
 
Small poos could even mean dehydration, so you are right to restart the fluids. How much are you giving? Is she having the Avipro over an hour after her Baytril?
 
I've been giving 1-5ml fluids every 3-5ml of food, as much as she will take really (she's been having 10-25ml of food per feed). The syringe mix usually ends up quite watery too. I'm mixing the avipro with her syringe food, not at every feed but she usually gets a feed 2-3 hours after the baytril (which is given in the evening) and I'm adding the avipro to that, and usually to her morning food too. Maybe I'm not adding enough avipro? Or would it be better added to water instead?
 
I've used Fibreplex in the past but didn't go for it this time, I hoped the avipro would be enough, but I might see if I can pick up a tube at the vet tomorrow, she isn't eating any hay so the extra fibre couldn't hurt. I know I had a previous vet say he didn't think it was worth the money if using a good quality syringe food but at this point it has to be worth a try!
 
I have had moderate sucsses with pro colen
It is for carnivors but my vet said the poo binding propeties works the same in carnivours
 
She's taken a turn for the worse this evening, she's really listless, not really responding to attempts to syringe feed her. I think she might be bloated, her stomach feels quite distended. I had her on a hot water bottle and gave her a bit of a massage but she hasn't passed any stools, and I've only seen a couple from her today. Her metacam ran out yesterday so I can't even give her that to take the edge off. I can't really afford another trip to the emergency vet but I don't think she'll make it otherwise...I don't think I could forgive myself if she died from digestive upset after fighting through the respiratory problems all this week. I just hope they have a cavy savvy vet on call. Please wish us luck.
 
Wish you a lorry-load full of luck. It's a horrible thing to be going through, and you're doing your best. If she can still fight you are right there to fight with her, but if it's not meant to be please don't be hard on yourself. xx
 
Nothing useful to add except virtual hand holding and positive vibes x
 
I so hope Buttercup is ok , but what ever happens , you are not to blame , you have done all you could and you are a supper piggy mom
 
She's gone. Got her to the vet and she was very cold and flat, and her breathing wasn't great. The vet said her only chance would be with hospitalisation for several days at least, plus more diagnostics to investigate the underlying cause of the pneumonia etc. but that her chances were slim. Given the poor prognosis she recommended euthanasia. I wouldn't have been able to afford the sort of treatment the vet was talking but I so badly wanted to bring her back home and keep trying. But she was really starting to struggle to eat this evening...I know there's not much else I would have been able to do, and it wouldn't have been fair on her. With her wriggling around in my arms though, it was such a hard decision to make. In the end the vet tried to put a catheter in, at which point Buttercup started gasping for air. They put her on oxygen and she passed on her own a few moments later. I don't know if it was the shock of the catheterization attempt that made her go more quickly, but the fact that she passed so quickly and easily is a small comfort.

I have bought her home and will bury her beside my previous pigs (hopefully the rain stops long enough for a funeral). I'll probably spend the next few days giving poor old Daisy lots of cuddles (which she probably won't appreciate, but that I will certainly need).

Thank you so much to everyone who commented, I really appreciate all the advice and support I've received. I'm so devastated to have lost her after she's fought so hard these past couple of weeks, but at least I know she's not suffering any more.

RIP Buttercup. I'm so sorry to have lost you so soon. Popcorn free, beautiful girl.
 
I am so dam sad for you, you tried so hard and please dont blame your self you are such a good piggy mom
Run free little Buttercup
 
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