C&C in playhouse?

FirstTimePigs

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I'm looking into the possibility of converting my daughter's 170 x 105cm playhouse into a guinea pig home. We will add electricity for heating (probably an oil filled radiator) and can switch out the windows for mesh over summer. We can also add insulation too as required, though it's in a sheltered pot (and we are UK based). Ideally, we'd link a Zippee tunnel to a Omlet outside run so they can get outside during the day too.

The playhouse is sturdy and in good condition. Initial plan was for a 4 x 2 C&C cage. However would the guinea pigs need a hutch too/instead? - though we want to leave some space for our daughter to sit in the playhouse with them. Can anyone recommend snug hideys/similar which would work in a C&C cage? Or provide any other advice?

Thank you
 
:wel:

Using a shed or playhouse is always a brilliant thing to do for outdoor piggies. However, I would be hesitant to use a c&c in a shed, and would always (and do) go for a hutch inside the shed, for a few reasons.

You would like to think the shed would be entirely predator proof but caution is always needed. Even if a fox couldn’t get in, rats can chew wood and can get through tiny gaps. A c&c would not offer them any protection if something was to get inside.

Keeping then warm in a c&c may not be easy.
Many people with outdoor shed piggies do use oiled filled radiators, but it’s going to be shed dependent on how well it heats it up in the first place and if and how quickly the temperature drops if you turn it off or when the thermostat turns it off - you don’t want piggies exposed to fluctuations in temperature. Some say the oil filled radiators work well, others say it does little more than take the edge off. Being in a c&c, you would need a heater to fully heat the entire space and keep it consistent between 18 and 22 degrees for months on end all day and night. Just taking the edge off will likely not be good enough if they are in a c&c as you cannot trap the warmth inside the cage. It would most likely be fine if they were in a hutch given hutches can be insulated and covered which keeps warmth inside, probably allowing you to turn the heater off at night.

For summer you would also need an alternative plan for living and be very aware of what happens in the playhouse. Sheds are brilliant in winter as they offer protection against the elements but can be death traps in summer (and this includes hutches and runs outside). They tend to get hot quickly and you would need to be prepared to move them out.

Tunnel from shed to run is a great idea but keep in mind that they should ideally not be on grass/in a run unless you are there supervising them.

What sex are the piggies?
Two sows can be in a cage with the measurements of a 4x2 c&c, but two boars need a 5x2 (basically boars would need the whole floor space of your playhouse).
This is also where having a hutch in the space will be problematic though because boars need a 180x60cm hutch which wouldn’t fit.
Sows need a 150x60cm hutch, this will also take up almost all the floor space and may not even leave enough room for the hutch doors to be properly opened.

Hides - I would recommend you only use double exit wooden hides outside. Nothing plastic as they get too hot in summer and can condensate in winter exposing piggies to damp. Bendy log bridges work very well
Bedding - no fleecey items or bedding as in winter particularly, as they wont dry properly and can absorb moisture from the air which will leave piggies in wet bedding

My personal experience - my piggies live in a 8ft x 6ft insulated shed with a stable door, and also an internal mesh door so the outer door can be left open and they are still secure inside. I have a hutch in the shed. The shed does not have electricity but even so it remains around 5-10 degrees warmer than outside temperatures which is a godsend in winter and really makes all the difference. The hutch door is left open from May until October and they come and go between hutch and shed as they please. In winter, they have access to the shed floor to play during the day but are locked into the hutch at night for warmth and protection.
For winter the hutch is also insulated and has a thermal hutch cover and blankets to keep warmth inside, with several snugglesafes being used. I’ve never had any issues keeping them warm enough in winter (all winter) and at night using this method. Inside the hutch itself always remains at their comfort zone, even if it gets a bit cooler in the shed itself (and this is why they are locked in the hutch at winter nights - I am certain they are warm enough).
Summer is where the problems are. It gets far too hot, far too quickly, so they have to move into the house during any hot weather in summer. They’ve just gone back out to the shed after having had to move inside for the past week of just over 30 degree temperatures where the shed hit 42 inside.
Even if I had electricity out there, fans still wouldn’t work and would just draw hot air in and blow hot air around, air con also isn’t designed to be used in sheds.
 
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Thank you - this is really helpful. I suspect we will go for sows if and when the time comes. I can see that a hutch is handy for extra warmth and protection and we would want the pigs to have adequate space. Could the hutch be smaller if they had constant access to most of the rest of the playhouse? I understand that ramps can be tricky, but are there any small hutches which are slightly raised - ie. so they would have floor space underneath as well as in the “rest” of the playhouse? Thanks again for your help. I’ve had years looking after gerbils but am new to pigs, and my husbands guinea pig days were in the 80s/90s when the accepted standards were quite different!
 
Ps outdoor would be secure one with roof and floor, so should be ok during daytime
 
Sows need a minimum permanent space of 120x60cm but 150x60 is the recommended size. Do just bear in mind that there may be times where you have to lock them in so do not let the hutch be any smaller than 120cm (it’s minimum welfare size) as if it’s too small as it could cause you problems.

Almost all hutches will be slightly raised off the ground but the gap will vary. Standing it on a brick can raise it if it is a lower gap

Another thing to note is we would always recommend that you rescue rather than buy where at all possible. if you are able to rescue, then please do speak to rescue centres prior to making any housing purchases. If they do not approve of what you do/buy then they won’t rehome to you without modifications which is going to cost more in the long run. Plus, not all rescues will rehome to outdoor homes either at all or from this time of year. A lot of rescues will insist on a 150cm (5ft hutch) for sows
Also, and very importantly, it is starting to get too late in the year for getting piggies who need to live outdoors (unless you can guarantee that you can keep a shed at 18 degrees right through until next April/May time. Piggies who have only been indoors up until now (including in a pet shop), will be starting to run out of time to acclimatise to outdoor conditions and will struggle to deal with being moved outside once we get towards mid to end of September
 
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Ps outdoor would be secure one with roof and floor, so should be ok during daytime

Good but do ensure you are careful. It’s not just whether something can actually get into them, but also if a predator including cats prowls around the enclosure and youre not there to chase them off. This will absolutely terrify guinea pigs.
Also consider weather conditions - garden runs should not be used when it is 25 degrees or more or if there is any risk of a sun-heated breeze (which can significantly raise the temperature the piggies are actually experiencing); or after about October as draughts and damper conditions of being outside will not be good for them (generally they cannot go into garden runs between October until around April).
 
Thank you very much. My plan is for our daughter to ask for the items required for birthday/Christmas this year on the understanding that we couldn’t get any pigs till the spring. I will look into the larger size cage but would love the pigs to be able to use the floor space underneath to max the space they can use in the playhouse. Is it ok to raise the hutch (how high would I need to raise it?) and, if so, what size ramp would you recommend? Any particular hutches you’d recommend?

A few other questions:

If the playhouse is secure is there any further “pig proofing” required save perhaps some C&C or similar to keep away from the oil filled radiator? And Lino or similar on the floor?

Would you recommend any insulation in the playhouse? I’ve no idea of what types one might use!

Thanks so much for your help
 
Yes it’s fine to raise it but you wouldn’t want it high. A few inches - just enough for them to get underneath (remembering that getting them out won’t be easy) - would be fine.

This guide will help with ramps - Ramps in Cages
Remembering that the higher you raise the hutch, the longer the ramp will need to be to keep it at a shallow gradient. Piggies don’t like climbing - and although most will learn to use a ramp, some never will - so ensuring the ramp has sides on it to prevent falls, has a good grippy surface and isn’t steep is important.
I used Velcro to attach VetBed to my ramp in the past (don’t use ramps now). It provides excellent grip and can be removed for washing. It’s the only fabric item which I can get away with using

Chartwell hutches from Home and Roost are well recommended. They do come with a little ramp but you will need to add grip etc to it to encourage use.

You will absolutely need to add insulation. Celotex would be the best thing (not cheap) but the silver radiator insulation foil is also good. You would need to make sure the piggies cannot get to the insulation or any wood of the shed as they will chew it to destruction. So either ply lining (on top of insulation) the whole playhouse (expensive but most way of ensuring good insulation and protection from chewing ) or using c&c grids around the entire perimeter (and ensuring they cannot get to the radiator) so they piggies cannot get access to insulation or wood.
Once insulated you need to ensure adequate ventilation to prevent condensation occurring.
You would also be wise to insulate the hutch either with the silver foil insulation or by buying a proper thermal hutch cover.

Floor - yes lino will be needed to protect the floor. You then need an absorbent bedding on top of that.
This is where free roaming a larger space can get quite expensive on bedding - they need a good layer of something absorbent (my personal preference is megazorb), and then topped with hay. Spot cleaned of poops and any wet areas daily and a full clean out once a week.

This is our sheds thread which may also help you - Member Gallery: Sheds

and our hutch thread
Member Gallery: Hutches

Cage Size Guide
 
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My pigs have lived in a playhouse for about 3 years (not right now though there inside)
. I never insulated until recently and ive never had an issue in winter personally, the main reason I did now was for the heat in summer, you should absolutely do it if you can afford though
. Put some vinyl floor down (even if they wont be touching the floor you will need it)
. You will need to add a secure latch on the door that a fox cannot open, kids playhouses tend to come with easy openable ones which is why I say this
. What ive done in the past as a cheaper option to runaround/omlet systems etc to provide an "outdoor" area is secure a wooden run so it lines up with the door and then just open the bottom door so the animals can come out, that only works with stable doors though... and it saves making a hole in the wall
. You will need a light for late nights and winter, The best ones ive found are reachable puck lights, there not marketed for outdoor use but ive never had a problem
- As for a hutch or c&c, mine have always just had the entire floor space but in your case a hutch would be better, what you could do is maybe let them have the entire space in the day and lock them in the hutch at night for extra security
 
I'm looking into the possibility of keeping two pigs (girls) in my daughter's playhouse. Current plan is to have hutch with 24/7 access to part of playhouse floor plus daytime access to secure outdoor run via Zippi tunnel.

Having done some more measurements, I realise the playhouse is limited on space if we are to be able to open hutch doors /get in there to care for pigs. What size hutch would be better - 3ft wide, 2 ft deep double height hutch or 4ft wide 18 inch deep double hutch? Would get as shallow a ramp as possible.
 
If you had either of those hutches, the hutch door could never be shut, not even for a short period of time as they fall very short of minimum welfare requirements. So in any emergency/unplanned/unforeseen situation, you would need an alternative cage (meeting size requirements) to bring them into the house for any reason.
(And to be honest, because keeping them outside is hard work, particularly in summer, you are well advised to have a spare indoor cage in any event.)
Weather conditions are getting worse - hotter summers and more storms in winter which has the potential to cause damage to sheds etc (we always advise piggies are brought indoors during any windy period as we see sheds blow down, trees fall on them etc)

So, strictly speaking both of those cages are far too small but if it is all you can fit you need to go for the one which gives the biggest space. Double hutches do not double the floor space and their space needs to be big enough on the bottom level only. Single level hutches are best for guinea pigs.
Two sows need a welfare minimum of 4ft x 2ft which covers 8 square feet
The 3ft hutch comes to 6 sq ft. The 4ft comes to 5.8 sq ft.
Remembering that the smaller the hutch, the harder it is to get a shallow enough ramp in them as they do not have the length in the hutch. The ramps in most commercial 3 or 4ft hutches would be unsuitable.

If you are rescuing, then do discuss this with them before buying a hutch
 
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I agree. It sounds like the playhouse is too small to house a hutch that meets minimum standards. I’ve seen your other thread and think it would be helpful to keep both discussions together as the shed and the hutch are going to be together to form the guinea pigs’ habitat. I will merge your threads.
 
I've been doing even more measuring...! As an alternative, I think I could squeeze a 3x3 ft enclosure inside the house. We could also have a C&C enclosure inside the playhouse with access to secure outside run when weather was suitable.

I think this would give an appropriate amount of floorspace for two pigs? If so, has anyone got any recommendations for custom built enclosures for inside? I like the look of C&C but a 3x3 comes up slightly bigger than 3ft x 3ft - and I need to fit this into a spot exactly that size.

Thank you all for your help and support - I really appreciate your guidance.
 
You might do better to speak to a local carpenter/joiner and have a hutch made to the exact measurements. You need whatever housing you have inside the playhouse to be secure and to keep them warm.

Yes a 3ft x 3ft enclosure comes to 9 sq ft so just above the minimum size
 
Noted. On security inside the playhouse, how big an issue is this in practice? The playhouse is very robust (made by a shed company) with strong wood and no gaps.
 
Noted. On security inside the playhouse, how big an issue is this in practice? The playhouse is very robust (made by a shed company) with strong wood and no gaps.

Very much depends on your area and what wildlife you have around, and what may be attracted by food etc being in the shed. If, for example, a fox discovers the piggies are there, they can become very determined.

If you are happy to not have them in a hutch in the playhouse, then that is your call to make.
I just know how much work it is keeping warm in winter etc and keeping checks to make sure nothing is getting in, my shed is also purpose built by a shed company and is very sturdy.

you can overlap c&c grids and tie with cable ties. You won’t get 3 grids wide in a 105cm shed but you would be able to make it two and a half. It would then need to be 4 grids long (or bigger) to make up the size.
You could also have them free roam the entire space as that would more than meet size requirements. As I said, you’ve got to be certain you can keep it a constant 18-22 degrees with an oil radiator without fluctuations and that it’s safe.
If you were to do not have a hutch, then you might like to attach a strong mesh (the lower the gauge the stronger the mesh (ie a 12 gauge is stronger a 16 gauge) with small holes to the entire inside of the shed, then add insulation. That will offer another layer of protection to help stop anything getting in
 
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Thank you very much. Plan would be that the pigs would live inside but could be put in shed (with outdoor run attached) during day when weather suitable - so would need to be secure but not suitable for all weather conditions.
 
Thank you very much. Plan would be that the pigs would live inside but could be put in shed (with outdoor run attached) during day when weather suitable - so would need to be secure but not suitable for all weather conditions.

Your original post mentions heating etc. so I thought it was that they would live in there?

If your plan is to have them live in the house but play in the shed during the day, then that could change everything.
Are you still planning on insulating and heating it then?

You say it doesn’t need to be suitable for all weather conditions, then that makes it sound like heating and insulation may not be needed, and thus not needing to be suitable for all weather conditions limits its ability to be used.

The realities of shed keeping could mean that the shed is only able to be used from April/May until June. After that it could well be far too hot inside a shed. Lawn runs shouldn’t be used once the temperature is 25 degrees.
After October until around April it’s too cold for indoor dwelling piggies to be put outside unless the shed temperature matches your house temperature. They could not have access to an attached outside run during this time so you’d be moving them to play just in the shed.

This means the shed is only able to be used for 2-3 months of the year
 
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Apologies for the confusion. Original plan was for them to live full time in the playhouse. But due to difficulties with getting suitable hutch and managing varying weather conditions, am now exploring permanent home inside - but potentially using playhouse in suitable weather as outdoor/daytime option as could attach that to an outside run. If we did that, then we would not necessarily bother with insulation and/or oil filled radiator - though might if that increased amount of time we could use the "outdoor option".
 
Though perhaps it's better spending money on a good outdoor run than converting the playhouse? The idea of the playhouse appealed as it would give indoor and outdoor space - and, if sufficiently secure, could be used whilst we are out at work.
 
So most indoor dwelling piggies would do just that - live inside but be put into a lawn run when someone is home to keep an eye on them. They can go in a lawn run between April/May until September/October (situation dependent - the autumn and Spring guide as to whether they can go out is if you can stand on the grass in bare feet wearing a t-shirt without feeling chilly or damp on your feet, then they can also go out). Basically you treat piggies like tender plants - avoid frosts etc

The effort involved in insulating and heating if they aren’t going to live in there, to me, seems like a lot, and it may only extend its use from 2-3 months to 3-4 months a year.
You may be able to get it warm, but cooling it down is quite another thing (something I still cannot manage!).

In summer, you still don’t want them on the lawn if it is 25 degrees (in reality possibly slightly cooler than that given a hot breeze can increase the temperatures greatly) so if they were in the shed with run connected and it got warm in the sun, then they’ve actually got very little choice - a shed which may become too hot, or be outside which even in shade, may also end up being too warm if they sun is causing heated breezes to pass in). It’s just safer to have them indoors if you cannot supervise.
July/August time often they cannot be out at all except early mornings and evenings once it is cool enough

Its 23 degrees with sun and quite large clouds here today...my shed is currently showing at 29 degrees, was 32 earlier. So even though it’s not be too hot by weather report, the reality in the shed is very different. Piggies are safely in the house where it’s cool, they will be going into the lawn run now I’m home and then back into the shed just before dark provided the temperature in there comes down
 
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Another update(!). I've found a company who can custom build a 90x90cm indoor enclosure, with detachable legs so we can store hay etc underneath. It would be a variant of this sort of thing (see attachment). Would love some input from experienced pig owners on a couple of points:

1. Would 35 cm sides be about right? Obviously need to be high enough but want our daughter to be able to lean over to pick them up.

2. Any thoughts as to what height base should be from ground, ie how long the legs should be?

3. Two sides will be wood, two mesh or perspex. I'm assuming mesh would be easier to clip on water bottle and hay rack. Or would perspex be better? It would be in non-draughty part of our living room.

4. I was thinking of getting a roof just in case we had small kids visiting. But wondering if this is overkill and a pain to store (I could just require them to be closely supervised!)

5. Is it worth paying extra for a mezzanine level or is all one level better for ease of access?

Any other suggestions or input gratefully received.
 

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A custom cage is always a good option my boys have a custom cage that’s wood and Perspex. As it’s custom of got as big as your space will allow 😊
Ours is 80cm above ground as it’s on cupboards, you certainly wouldn’t want it any higher I’d say between 50-70cm would be a nice height. 35cm heigh sides are Perfect. It’s worth noting that piggies don’t always enjoying being picked up and will run away from you so it’s more than likely you will need to catch them and let your daughter hold them once caught!
I’m terms of water bottle, my is attached to the wooden part, I’ll attached a picture below, Perspex is a bit nicer than mesh as you I can then see them more!
I personally wouldn’t bother with a mezzanine, but that personal preference, a ramp can take a little away from floor space and they are ground roaming after all ☺️
 

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Thank you, really helpful advice. And good idea about attaching bottle to wood - though I guess you don't have a lid? (Do you feel the need for one? - if it's raised, small visitors can't reach anyway!). Daughter is nearly 9 and is very good good animals (and we have had gerbils for years) so I suspect she may end up teaching me to catch them! 😂
 
Your enclosure looks to be an amazing size. Wish we could go that big, though we're doing our best with the space we have got :-) I wondered about a mezzanine to provide added interest but appreciate that wouldn't count as floor space and might overcomplicate/make harder to clean .
 
We don’t have a lid no, we don’t have children so they is no need for us. But your right if they are raised high enough it shouldn’t be necessary! Ours is 180cmx70cm we live in a flat so it takes up a bit part of our living space but we don’t mind, we have two boys so it needs to be this big!
Some pigs will like a second level some won’t, I just find them extra faff and like you say harder to clean!
 
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