Cage Size for 2 separate boars.

[Piggies&buns]

It would be quite tough to split it safely and to get my parents onboard to make so many "renovations". I have already made it so their cars cant fit in the garage lol, and my mum is insistent I can not take up any more room in the garage.

My best option is to remove Winston completely and get Reggie a more suitable friend, but then the only way to make that work efficiently is to have him in my bedroom or a couple feet away in his own cage. Would he ever be able to live a happy life in my bedroom? I would keep his life as good as possible.

Assuming there can be no renovations/side by side living made possible, would it be good to have him in his own cage a few metres away and still able to hear them or in my bedroom.

While I absolutely do appreciate and I am certain you would do everything you can to make winston’s life a good one, the fact remains being totally on his own in your room without any interaction with another piggy is not really the way forward. Sadly human interaction isn’t enough.

Being in the garage and able to hear but not next to would have to be the compromise. It wouldn’t be ideal but it would be better than being in your room.
Piggies communicate via scent, body language and by sound so the further he is away from other piggies, the more interaction he loses.

 

[piggl]

I have a blue store bought cage, it is about the same size as a 2x3 (I would have to measure it).
If I could place this near their run during the day would this help? I could also place it infront of their hutch overnight, but a full time c&c a couple feet away would be the best option long term wise.

I just worry that he would feel left out sat beside them in his cage while they run about interacting with each other? Whereas if he was in his own cage a little bit away he could live his own little life near enough away to smell and hear them.

Another question, would hearing and smelling Winston upset Reggie and friends bond at all?

Thank you for all your help by the way and I apologise for all the back and forth.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Dont apologise, I’m happy to help.

Provided the commercial cage meets size requirements (minimum of 120x60cm) and could be next to the run during the day and put in front of the hutch at night then that would be a better option than being in a cage a few feet away. This is because it would enable that all important constant side by side interaction. Obviously the space is important but so is the 24/7 interaction and coming up with a solution which meets both those needs is the main priority.

If the commercial cage you have is not big enough or if you’d prefer him to have more space anyway, then I’d recommend the ferplast plaza 160 Or even the 140 version would be absolutely fine.

Winston would not feel left out. He would have interaction through the bars while enjoying his own space. He isn’t going to get jealous by seeing reggie and friend running about.
When my four boys go out in their runs, I have Dexter and popcorn in one run and obviously Wilbur and Hugo in individual runs. They are all next to each other in a block so all four can interact through the adjoining sides of all three runs. Wilbur and Hugo don’t get jealous just because they can see Dexter and popcorn living together - they all just run along the bars together, chatting and rumbling. Dex and pops go back to their top level hutch and Wil and Hugo go back to their side by side enclosures and all live perfectly happily.

If it really comes to it that there is no choice but for him to be in a cage but a few feet away from them then that will have to be what happens - it is better for him to be in the same room as other piggies even if not able to be directly next to them vs being in your room which would not be suitable.
You are doing a great job at getting through this situation.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh and sorry I missed this bit - smelling winston would not upset reggie and friend’s bond.

 

[piggl]

Unfortunately i’ve spoke to my mother and if Winston doesn’t come inside I have to get rid of Reggie and keep Winston in the hutch.
She doesn’t believe (and is kind of right) that I can’t fully insulate and keep Winston safe in a freezing brick garage in a open bar cage. The only reason they are safe now is because they are in a hutch, which has special insulation on all sides and they are next to a boiler. I have a special pure wool sleeping blanket that goes across their sleeping area overnight in the winter and even then they sometimes have to stay inside, closed up all day to keep them safe from the cold.
It gets to like 5-6 degrees and thats now, let alone winter.

She is also under the impression that the other pigs will upset him, which I know isn’t true but there’s no way I can change her mind. She loves the pigs as I do but it’s kind of a miracle that’s she’s even considering this change.

I’m allowed to get a new cage and stuff for Winston and a friend to keep Reggie company but only if Winston comes inside.

I want what’s best for Winston but I really can’t lose Reggie, I want the best for both of them.
Is it cruel to keep Winston inside? I would get him a good sized home and do everything I can to keep him comfortable. I really do not know what to do.

My hearts broken that it’s come to this, truly.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh i am so sorry to hear this.

Is your garage really only 5-6 degrees now?
Is there absolutely no way you can bring them into your room if things are already that cold out there, even if they are 2x3s? Two commercial cages even (which will come in narrower than c&c)? (Without reggie having a new friend).

My experience was that it was possible to keep an open bar cage warm in the winter we just had but my shed is insulated which helps and is never as cold as the temperatures your garage gets to.
I’m not going to pretend it was easy and I did worry. A winter colder than one we just had and it may be a different story though. I might be panic buying a 4ft hutch and trying to squeeze it in! I made a thermal cover for his cage using silver foil insulation to go over it (and under it) (the same way the hutches are insulated) and then blankets over the insulation. Heatpads and a thermometer so I can monitor and it stayed nice and warm in there for him.
If your garage doesn’t even get to 10 degrees then I can see it’s going to be a problem.

We can only advise that for a single piggy, human interaction doesn’t compare or replace the side by side 24/7 companionship and interaction of other piggies. Being in your room by himself is not ideal, It doesn’t sound like you’re going to have much choice but to do it though.
Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities
As you will know, not that it is something you would consider but rehoming reggie and keeping winston in the hutch will not solve anything - Winston would still be fully alone so the effect is the same.

For single piggies being in cages one on top of the other isn’t usually an option as it removes most of their ability to interact but if the only option is that he is in your room totally by himself, then I would put a one up, one down cage as a better choice than being alone without even being able to hear another piggy. Perhaps theres some space for whoever is in a top cage to come down during the day so they have a bit of side by side time. I know that goes against everything I’d normally say and it’s not ideal but it would be a compromise in this difficult situation and a potential way that he doesn’t have to be fully by himself with no chance of interaction with another piggy.

 

[piggl]

What if I found a big single story hutch for Winston to live in a couple ft from the normal hutch. I just don’t think it will give him as much space as a 2x4, which makes me feel bad.

I know I already asked this but are you sure him hearing them interact and live their life won’t just upset him instead of enrich him? He will be able to smell them and hear them but not see them.
I feel bad having him sat there in his hutch being able to hear and smell them but not see them, it seems more discomforting and upsetting then helpful.

@Betsy sorry for tagging you but I wanted to ask. I believe that the beautiful Thea lives by herself but near your other two ladies, could you share any insight on how this works for you?

I’ve never felt so much anxiety in a while haha, I just want the best for them and I feel so stuck. I really don’t think there is any future in them staying together because it will just continue to hurt my old boy.

 

[Piggies&buns]

What if I found a big single story hutch for Winston to live in a couple ft from the normal hutch. I just don’t think it will give him as much space as a 2x4, which makes me feel bad.

I know I already asked this but are you sure him hearing them interact and live their life won’t just upset him instead of enrich him? He will be able to smell them and hear them but not see them.
I feel bad having him sat there in his hutch being able to hear and smell them but not see them, it seems more discomforting and upsetting then helpful.

@Betsy sorry for tagging you but I wanted to ask. I believe that the beautiful Thea lives by herself but near your other two ladies, could you share any insight on how this works for you?

I’ve never felt so much anxiety in a while haha, I just want the best for them and I feel so stuck. I really don’t think there is any future in them staying together because it will just continue to hurt my old boy.

Hutches dont lend themselves to side by side living very well but again it’s about finding a suitable compromise in your situation where the ideal living situation can’t be accommodated.

I absolutely promise you, living beside a pair (or even beside reggie if he was to remain single also) will not upset winston or do anything to risk the bond between the pair. It completely will enrich winston’s life and provide him with what he needs when he can’t live with another piggy. Being totally alone without any interaction will not be good for him and that will result in the potential for loneliness and depression (even if he never shows it).
All our advice for single piggies always has been and always will be that piggies need to be side by side for interaction.

One of the set ups I experimented with was all four of my boys side by side (I couldnt make it work long term because it took all the shed floor space which left no room for hay bales.)
Wilbur and Hugo loved being side by side with each other and being side by side with Dexter and popcorn as the bonded pair. Full 24/7 interaction and they were all at their happiest. If I could have left it like that then I would have.

 

[Piggies&buns]

What size hutch would you be looking at - a 4ft hutch (120x60cm) even meets minimum for a single piggy so is fine. A 5ft hutch (150x60) would be lovely for a single piggy and would be the hutch equivalent of a 2x4 c&c.
No, it’s not as big as a 2x4 (it comes in narrower) but there is nothing wrong with 4ft (for a single piggy) or 5ft hutches measurement wise.

 

[piggl]

Have you ever kept your pigs in a single story hutch, I know it is about the same as the bluebell they are in now but it just doesn't feel right I don't know.
I have been looking at a couple, I would love to get a chartwell but I do not know if I can spend £170 on a hutch that will not even be a permanent residence, after Winston I mean.
I was also looking at this one - https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/guinea-pig-den-hutch# - I know pets at home hutches are not the best but it does not have to be weather resistant for my use, I just need it to keep him safe and happy. Its much more reasonably priced and comes in at H54 x W124 x D45cm which is not bad for what I need. Will this be big enough for Winston to live happily in? I just feel like there is not enough room to move about even if it is about the same size as the one they have now, if not bigger.

I apologise to keep going on about it and again I am truly so thankful for all your help, but the thought of him hearing them playing but not being with them sounds like it would be distressing. When I am scrolling on my phone and come across a sound with squeaking guinea pigs both my boys go on alert and start searching around for the pig, I don't want this to be Winston's life 24/7, especially if he is by himself.

Edit - What about this one, coming in at 6ft long, it would give him more room to stretch his legs hopefully - Indoor Stackable Rabbit Guinea Pig Hedgehog Hutch | H&R - It says hospital home but I am not really sure why.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I prefer single storey hutches and they are all living single storey. I turned my doubles into single storeys and would never have a double storey again. Upper levels dont count towards the cage size anyway so the fact your boys have two levels now doesn’t make any difference to the amount of room they have.

I personally wouldn’t have that hutch - at only 54cm external measurement, it’ll be probably closer to 40cm internally so would be less space than in the 5ft bluebell they have now. Yes, the same goes for the bluebell - internal measurements would be less than the 61cm external width measurement and of course you don’t go by internal measurements but given this one already starts smaller external, id discount it.

It’s ok honestly, but i promise you he will be fine hearing other piggies. Seeing and hearing others is entirely what he needs. If he never heard another piggy again, never saw another piggy again, then that is when he would be distressed.
Remember, playing a sound on your phone of a piggy neither of your boys have ever heard before, can’t smell, can’t see is very different to living alongside a pair when they can smell them, see them, get to know them and can interact with them. My boys have stood of attention when hearing sounds on my phone - it doesn’t change the fact that they are living happily side by side and happily communicate with each other. Neither Wilbur or Hugo are bothered by hearing or seeing Dexter and popcorn being together - they just join in, all chatting together.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Edit - What about this one, coming in at 6ft long, it would give him more room to stretch his legs hopefully - Indoor Stackable Rabbit Guinea Pig Hedgehog Hutch | H&R - It says hospital home but I am not really sure why.

It may be 6ft long but it is only 40cm wide (therefore even less internally - it would be like keeping him a c&c cage only one grid wide) so unsuitable as permanent living space. You don’t want anything less than 60cm wide.

 

[piggl]

Thanks so much for your explanation, I don’t mean to go on and on but I am so thankful for your kind, ongoing and understanding advice/support.

What about this one - https://amzn.eu/d/dsOmG3q - It’s 138x53cm.

Edit - I’ve just seen your post now. Is there any hutches you would recommend?
Second Edit (sorry) - Is the 4ft chartwell acceptable? At 65x118, I was sceptical but i’ve seen a video of it and it’s actually a decent size. I’d prefer the 5ft but worst case scenario is the 4ft okay for my boy?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thanks so much for your explanation, I don’t mean to go on and on but I am so thankful for your kind, ongoing and understanding advice/support.

What about this one - https://amzn.eu/d/dsOmG3q - It’s 138x53cm.

Edit - I’ve just seen your post now. Is there any hutches you would recommend?

A 4ft Chartwell is your best option. A 5ft would obviously be better but a 4ft covers what he needs

 

[piggl]

Oops, jinxs! I think this is my best option.

Fingers tightly crossed my mum allow it, as I said my mum does love them but she still has quite old fashioned views on animal care. The moneys coming from me so hopefully it shouldn’t be too much of an issue.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thanks so much for your explanation, I don’t mean to go on and on but I am so thankful for your kind, ongoing and understanding advice/support.

What about this one - https://amzn.eu/d/dsOmG3q - It’s 138x53cm.

Edit - I’ve just seen your post now. Is there any hutches you would recommend?
Second Edit (sorry) - Is the 4ft chartwell acceptable? At 65x118, I was sceptical but i’ve seen a video of it and it’s actually a decent size. I’d prefer the 5ft but worst case scenario is the 4ft okay for my boy?

Yes the 4ft is absolutely fine. If I need to get Wilbur in a hutch at all, then it’ll be what I get.

but to answer specifically about the 138x53 you’ve linked in - it is wholly unsuitable for more than just the reason of measurements. It doesn’t have a solid roof so would be just as hard to keep warm as if you kept him in a commercial cage. Plus it has a mesh floor so would be a big safety hazard.

 

[AidaB]

Just wanted to offer you a virtual hug.
Its lovely that you are trying to bounce around ideas, and come up with a workable solution.

 

[piggl]

Yes the 4ft is absolutely fine. If I need to get Wilbur in a hutch at all, then it’ll be what I get.

but to answer specifically about the 138x53 you’ve linked in - it is wholly unsuitable for more than just the reason of measurements. It doesn’t have a solid roof so would be just as hard to keep warm as if you kept him in a commercial cage. Plus it has a mesh floor so would be a big safety hazard.

That makes sense, it did look a bit flimsy. There would be newspaper and puppy pads etc. ontop of the mesh but even then I do think it would be difficult to keep insulated, and I didn’t even think about the roof.

We have a busy day today so I probably won’t get a chance to sit down with anyone to speak about it but I should hopefully get some time tomorrow and I will let you know how I get on.

Thank you again from the bottom of my heart. The time, effort and care that you, and the other staff members, put into this forum is so appreciated.

 

[piggl]

Just wanted to offer you a virtual hug.
Its lovely that you are trying to bounce around ideas, and come up with a workable solution.

Thank you, and thanks for your help earlier on. As I said you’ve got a very lucky pair of boys, their setup is gorgeous x

 

[AidaB]

Thank you, and thanks for your help earlier on. As I said you’ve got a very lucky pair of boys, their setup is gorgeous x

Your welcome, and thank you. It was the only solution, and we had to think through a few options to arrive at this one, not perfect, but now works for us. Trust me that playpen does not stay up all the time, and will be up less over the winter.

 

[Betsy]

Thea lives on her own but that was her choice. It's not ideal as I would have loved her to share her Penthouse Suite with Misty and Bramble but she was having none of it and the bonding attempt was a complete disaster. So I had to come up with a compromise where she lived alone but wasn't lonely. Thea lives in the Penthouse Suite of a 6ft Chartwell hutch and Misty and Bramble live in a 120 Ferplast on a table which is the same height as the hutch. They have timeshare in a 16 square foot run every other day for around 8 hours (Thea is in the run one day, Misty and Bramble the next day). This gives them all excercise time in the run during the day and interaction time during the evening/overnight. Thea has really perked up since the failed bonding with this arrangement. It works well for my situation. Really hope you can come up with a suitable compromise for yours.

 

[piggl]

Thea lives on her own but that was her choice. It's not ideal as I would have loved her to share her Penthouse Suite with Misty and Bramble but she was having none of it and the bonding attempt was a complete disaster. So I had to come up with a compromise where she lived alone but wasn't lonely. Thea lives in the Penthouse Suite of a 6ft Chartwell hutch and Misty and Bramble live in a 120 Ferplast on a table which is the same height as the hutch. They have timeshare in a 16 square foot run every other day for around 8 hours (Thea is in the run one day, Misty and Bramble the next day). This gives them all excercise time in the run during the day and interaction time during the evening/overnight. Thea has really perked up since the failed bonding with this arrangement. It works well for my situation. Really hope you can come up with a suitable compromise for yours.

Thanks for your reply!

I think I will timeshare my run aswell. Could you let me know if you change the mat or whichever flooring you use inbetween the uses (in the run)? Or do you allow all girls to use the same stuff?

 

[Betsy]

Thanks for your reply!

I think I will timeshare my run aswell. Could you let me know if you change the mat or whichever flooring you use inbetween the uses (in the run)? Or do you allow all girls to use the same stuff?

The girls all use the same stuff. I poop pick in between (obviously) and add in extra hay. They are on a sheet of fleece, a mattress cover and that is on top of an offcut of vinyl flooring on my garage floor.