cage tour!

[mackie]

tour of my babies’ house
upstairs- this is their play area. i gave them a variety of dangly toys. these toys give them noise satisfaction & provides a healthy way to satisfy their chewing needs! i also give them ping pong balls for mental stimulation and physical enrichment. my piggy’s love them! (one’s a soccer ball) they also have 1 big wooden ball and 1 big wicker ball. the upstairs’ level is low enough for them jump on, and also has a slide for them! my piggy’s are definitely occupied

base floor- i use pine bedding, i’m thinking of giving them paper bedding instead to prevent them from inhaling dust and causing lung issues. beside the slide is an orange wire hay feeder. i had to zip-tie it to the cage to prevent gibby from ripping it off and making a total mess i prefer wire hay feeders as opposed to other types because i find it easier to clean, more convenient to fill, and it doesn’t use any floor room. to the very right of the cage is a big, dark blue tinted house for them to provide them more security and comfortability. beside the house is a bright orange food bowl for chopped fresh produce hanging beside that is a glass, 16oz water bottle. i usually fill it 1 or 2 times a day depending on their thirst. underneath the upstairs level is very shaded, a good spot for them to hide/nap. there’s not anything under there, only a bundle of sticks. my piggies’ love the texture of this, ESPECIALLY gibby.

exterior-
the cage is a 30”(L) by 18”(W). it’s enough room for them to do their thing. the outside of the cage has 2 openings, one on the top and one on the side. the base of the cage is green & it’s jungle-themed. i put a small blanket over the roof of their cage to stop air drafts from coming in the cage. keeps the warm in, too

if anyone has some more ideas/tips for their cage, send them my way!

 

[Betsy]

That sounds lovely but your cage is really far too small. 30" is less than 1 metre which is the size of my hospital cage for 1 poorly piggy who can't move around much and that is small for a single ill piggy. I certainly wouldn't put 2 piggies in there.

For welfare the recommended minimum cage size for pair of sows
is 24" x 60". Boars need more room so the recommended minimum cage size for them is 24" x 72". The more space you can give them the better. Guinea pigs are ground roaming animals and are not natural climbers so 2nd levels don't count.

Your cage may look big enough to you at the moment if your piggies are young and very small but they will soon grow and will outgrow that cage and their health will suffer as they won't be able to move round properly. Also lack of space can lead to them falling out.

 

[mackie]

That sounds lovely but your cage is really far too small. 30" is less than 1 metre which is the size of my hospital cage for 1 poorly piggy who can't move around much and that is small for a single ill piggy. I certainly wouldn't put 2 piggies in there.

For welfare the recommended minimum cage size for pair of sows
is 24" x 60". Boars need more room so the recommended minimum cage size for them is 24" x 72". The more space you can give them the better. Guinea pigs are ground roaming animals and are not natural climbers so 2nd levels don't count.

Your cage may look big enough to you at the moment if your piggies are young and very small but they will soon grow and will outgrow that cage and their health will suffer as they won't be able to move round properly. Also lack of space can lead

 

[Piggies&buns]

Very nice but I do agree with @Betsy.
For a pair of teenage boars, this isn’t big enough and can easily lead to them falling out. I see your youngest isn’t yet in his teens so when he also hits hormones, things can really escalate.
As Betsy has said, their cage needs to be 72 by 24 inches to give them enough space for their health and well-being and for the sake of their bond.
30 by 18 inches is sadly below minimum welfare requirements. It’s a shame a cage of size can be sold for guinea pigs.

Cage Size Guide

 

[Siikibam]

I agree. Get them a bigger cage and you’ll see how much they enjoy it. They’re still young enough to do lots of zoomies and popcorns, very entertaining!

Hay being messy is part of piggy ownership. They really enjoy piles on the floor that they can run through, hide under, eat, lie in and sleep in. I would also scatter feed the veg and pellets. And they need more than one hide, with two exits.

The other thing is all these chews. They don’t really need toys. Cardboard boxes with entrances cut on would be nice and cheap, and they can redecorate (chew) on them to their hearts content. Carrot cottages are another good one they can chew. Or even a paper bag (handles cut off) stuffed with hay and maybe some veg. They’d be entertained for a good while.

 

[mackie]

Very nice but I do agree with @Betsy.
For a pair of teenage boars, this isn’t big enough and can easily lead to them falling out. I see your youngest isn’t yet in his teens so when he also hits hormones, things can really escalate.
As Betsy has said, their cage needs to be 72 by 24 inches to give them enough space for their health and well-being and for the sake of their bond.
30 by 18 inches is sadly below minimum welfare requirements. It’s a shame a cage of size can be sold for guinea pigs.

Cage Size Guide

yes ma’am! i absolutely agree. that is why this is not their main spot. my piggies roam freely (safety precautions + safety limits) it’s healthier! i appreciate the concern this cage is solely for night time.

I agree. Get them a bigger cage and you’ll see how much they enjoy it. They’re still young enough to do lots of zoomies and popcorns, very entertaining!

Hay being messy is part of piggy ownership. They really enjoy piles on the floor that they can run through, hide under, eat, lie in and sleep in. I would also scatter feed the veg and pellets. And they need more than one hide, with two exits.

The other thing is all these chews. They don’t really need toys. Cardboard boxes with entrances cut on would be nice and cheap, and they can redecorate (chew) on them to their hearts content. Carrot cottages are another good one they can chew. Or even a paper bag (handles cut off) stuffed with hay and maybe some veg. They’d be entertained for a good while.

hi! thank you so much for the helpful advice. as i mentioned above, my piggies are able to roam free (some limitations in the house) in my home this cage is solely for night time. i prefer to let my piggies roam freely due to them being adventurous animals, needing a lot of floor room, & their history i find it to be a good bonding experience and good for their physical & mental health. for their feces & pee, i use disposable sheets to keep the floor sanitary. the hay in the cage is not the issue. my sweet potato tends to get hay out of the cage by pushing the feeder side to side. this way, the hay stays mostly in the cage! as for the toys, i give my piggie’s lots of toys to continue to encourage mental & physical stimulation. the toys also help by dulling their teeth. it’s absolutely necessary for them to use their toys to dull their little daggers. not doing so may lead to dental complications as their body ages. i find it more effective to use proper toys to supply plenty of entertainment (to enrich their experience during the times of being in the cage), giving them a mentally healthy outlet for their energy, & to contribute to maintaining their attentiveness! using lots of these toys provides more benefits as opposed to using alternative toys.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Its lovely they free roam, but even for being used to lock them into at night, the cage still needs to meet size requirements which is does not.

Those kinds of toys dont do anything for the teeth. Its the back molars which need to be kept worn down and the only thing which does that is eating hay and grass. The incisors are used for picking up food and biting pieces off and as such are self sharpening and kept healthy by a correctly functioning set of molars. Therefore the chew toys, which they can only access by the incisors dont really do anything for teeth.
If your piggies like to use them then that’s fine for enrichment. The vast majority of piggies ignore toys as they much prefer large piles of loose hay to play in

 

[mackie]

Its lovely they free roam, but even for being used to lock them into at night, the cage still needs to meet size requirements which is does not.

Those kinds of toys dont do anything for the teeth. Its the back molars which need to be kept worn down and the only thing which does that is eating hay and grass. The incisors are used for picking up food and biting pieces off and as such are self sharpening and kept healthy by a correctly functioning set of molars. Therefore the chew toys, which they can only access by the incisors dont really do anything for teeth.
If your piggies like to use them then that’s fine for enrichment. The vast majority of piggies ignore toys as they much prefer large piles of loose hay to play in

thank you so much. my licensed veterinarian has verified these toys as being helpful in contributing to their dental health. yes, their incisors help in the process of eating & the molars do need to be filed by some type of material to prevent. the incisors do elongate as time passes, & the toys do contribute to helping file them. thus specifically helping the incisors. not filing the incisors & others may lead to ‘entrapment’ of the tongue. this prevents the tongue not having a lot of mobility. though the toys do not help specifically help the molars, it is inaccurate to say that it does not contribute to their dental needs at all. the molars are absolutely accurate, though! i appreciate that information, thank you

 

[Betsy]

My piggies have never had any chew toys. They keep their teeth filed down by eating lots of hay.

 

[mackie]

i simply do this to help the process, among other factors

My piggies have never had any chew toys. They keep their teeth filed down by eating lots of hay.

 

[RosieLily]

Hi! Hope you get a bigger cage for the little ones soon! Before I came to this forum, my girls also had a cage far too small. Though they roamed freely most of the time, they were still bickering at night in their cage due to lack of space. It got worse as they were growing up, so now they live happily in a giant cage .

The people on the forum truly know the best tips for happy piggies, they have all helped me so much along the way!

 

[mackie]

Hi! Hope you get a bigger cage for the little ones soon! Before I came to this forum, my girls also had a cage far too small. Though they roamed freely most of the time, they were still bickering at night in their cage due to lack of space. It got worse as they were growing up, so now they live happily in a giant cage .

The people on the forum truly know the best tips for happy piggies, they have all helped me so much along the way!

my babies are adjusting very good to the cage. the general information is accurate & i do appreciate it a lot. although, for specifically my pigs, i find it a good home for them at the moment. as my pigs get bigger, i’ll definitely get a bigger cage. as for at this time, it’s completely safe to keep them in this cage during the night. & my babies do not argue, nor has there been any sort of altercation between them. i’ll separate these pigs if there is any sort of aggression. as i’m sure this community is giving accurate & very helpful information, i personally believe this set up is perfectly okay for the time being. i completely agree, i’ll need a bigger cage soon! thank you so much

 

[mackie]

Hi! Hope you get a bigger cage for the little ones soon! Before I came to this forum, my girls also had a cage far too small. Though they roamed freely most of the time, they were still bickering at night in their cage due to lack of space. It got worse as they were growing up, so now they live happily in a giant cage .

The people on the forum truly know the best tips for happy piggies, they have all helped me so much along the way!

my pigs already established a hierarchy & thus established dominance between them. due to this, there has been absolutely no encounters. i’m very diligent towards this matter.

 

[RosieLily]

my pigs already established a hierarchy & thus established dominance between them. due to this, there has been absolutely no encounters. i’m very diligent towards this matter.

Gently, the boys are still young and one of them isn't even in his teenage years yet according to your other thread. I would start looking for a bigger cage right away so everything will be set and ready to go, they do grow up fast

 

[PigglePuggle]

Hope you can get a larger cage soon, as you may well find that once they reach their hormonal "teenage months" the hierarchy and their interactions will shift quite considerably- more space is really important at that time.
Also just to note that as well as the considerable personal experience of many of our trusted members, as a UK based forum our welfare and housing advice is based on the minimum welfare standards recommended by the RSPCA, to meet UK animal welfare laws.
The minimum cage size for 2 piggies as per these guidelines is 48 inches by 24 inches (120x60cm) as described in our cage size guide that @Piggies&buns helpfully linked in for you above

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

US and UK cage size welfare recommendations are the same. Unfortunately, outside Switzerland there is no legal enforcement that prevents the sale of undersize cages to unsuspecting customers - and far too many sadly fall for it. For pet shops, the profit is in repeat sales for maintenance; their best customers are impulse buyers that don't do their research into the species they are bringing home first and who go for the cheapest option.

This picture from our cage size guide will hopefully help you to understand what a difference a larger cage makes. Please be aware that guinea pigs are a ground roaming species that has evolved covering quite a long distance (over a mile) between their denning area and their feeding grounds where they move to and fro two twice day.

Please also keep in mind that babies will grow quickly in the coming months and that they won't remain cute little babies for long.
The biggest cause of teenage boar fights and fall-outs is lack of space so the under-piggy cannot remove themselves from the stronger boar's territory as they would normally do and is forced to fight if a personality match is not there or the pressure becomes too much for both. Teenage lasts from ca. 4-14 months of age but strong hormone spikes can hit even adult boars up to 3 years.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[mackie]

Gently, the boys are still young and one of them isn't even in his teenage years yet according to your other thread. I would start looking for a bigger cage right away so everything will be set and ready to go, they do grow up fast

yes. the plan is to get a bigger cage very soon.

 

[Black piggies]

You're obviously a conscientious piggy owner, but starting on that journey of realising that what most pet shops and many vets say, doesn't meet adequate welfare standards. That was a shock for me. This forum is your friend on such matters

 

[mackie]

Hi!

US and UK cage size welfare recommendations are the same. Unfortunately, outside Switzerland there is no legal enforcement that prevents the sale of undersize cages to unsuspecting customers.

This picture from our cage size guide will hopefully help you to understand what a difference a larger cage makes. Please be aware that guinea pigs are a ground roaming species that has evolved covering quite a long distance (over a mile) between their denning area and their feeding grounds where they move to and fro two twice day.

Please also keep in mind that your babies will grow quickly in the coming months and that they won't remain cute little babies.

The biggest cause of teenage boar fights and fall-outs is lack of space so the under-piggy cannot remove themselves from the stronger boar's territory as they would normally do and is forced to fight if a personality match is not there or the pressure becomes too much for both. Teenage lasts from ca. 4-14 months of age but strong hormone spikes can hit even adult boars up to 3 years.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

View attachment 178469

yes, absolutely! this cage is only temporary. it is definitely not fit for permanent use. the plan is to get a bigger cage (a lot bigger) very, very soon. as noted above, gp’s do need a lot of floor room. this is why i let them roam freely (there are some limitations) i’m not oblivious to that, obviously. i had a different cage, it is not functional. this is a temporary home for them to be in only during the night hours. typically, my pigs are in a bigger cage (solely). it is basic judgement that this is not an quintessential housing situation, it is only for the time being. i plan on posting an update as i get a bigger cage set up for them. thank you so much for all of the advice, suggestions, and information. i highly appreciate it. & yes, it definitely helped! i’m looking for a cage a little bigger than that for the 2 of them. i appreciate the concern, too!

 

[mackie]

You're obviously a conscientious piggy owner, but starting on that journey of realising that what most pet shops and many vets say, doesn't meet adequate welfare standards. That was a shock for me. This forum is your friend on such matters

thank you there are not a lot of veterinarians that specialize in these matters here. the cage is definitely NOT adequate standards for a permanent housing situation. this is why my pigs roam freely most of the time. i absolutely disdain this type of cage. it is only temporary! i’m getting a bigger cage very soon.

 

[mackie]

yes ma’am! i’m not a fan of the cage that my gp’s are currently in. i’m am NOT defending it at all. it simply needs to be bigger! i’m looking at a bigger cage for them. the suggestions & information helped stupendously! thank you!

Hope you can get a larger cage soon, as you may well find that once they reach their hormonal "teenage months" the hierarchy and their interactions will shift quite considerably- more space is really important at that time.
Also just to note that as well as the considerable personal experience of many of our trusted members, as a UK based forum our welfare and housing advice is based on the minimum welfare standards recommended by the RSPCA, to meet UK animal welfare laws.
The minimum cage size for 2 piggies as per these guidelines is 48 inches by 24 inches (120x60cm) as described in our cage size guide that @Piggies&buns helpfully linked in for you above

 

[Siikibam]

Do you mean you have their molars ground down regularly? As mentioned, the toys won’t help wear their molars down. So there’s no health benefit to using them. But if they enjoy them then let at them

 

[Black piggies]

Hi!

US and UK cage size welfare recommendations are the same. Unfortunately, outside Switzerland there is no legal enforcement that prevents the sale of undersize cages to unsuspecting customers - and far too many sadly fall for it. For pet shops, the profit is in repeat sales for maintenance; their best customers are impulse buyers that don't do their research into the species they are bringing home first and who go for the cheapest option.

This picture from our cage size guide will hopefully help you to understand what a difference a larger cage makes. Please be aware that guinea pigs are a ground roaming species that has evolved covering quite a long distance (over a mile) between their denning area and their feeding grounds where they move to and fro two twice day.

Please also keep in mind that babies will grow quickly in the coming months and that they won't remain cute little babies for long.
The biggest cause of teenage boar fights and fall-outs is lack of space so the under-piggy cannot remove themselves from the stronger boar's territory as they would normally do and is forced to fight if a personality match is not there or the pressure becomes too much for both. Teenage lasts from ca. 4-14 months of age but strong hormone spikes can hit even adult boars up to 3 years.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

View attachment 178469

@Wiebke what's the history of Swiss welfare laws for guinea pigs? I'm curious how they came about.

 

[mackie]

Gently, the boys are still young and one of them isn't even in his teenage years yet according to your other thread. I would start looking for a bigger cage right away so everything will be set and ready to go, they do grow up fast

yes ma’am! i am. it’s going to be a little bit of time. as i stated previously, i am currently looking for a bigger cage. thank you! this is only a temporary housing for them.

Do you mean you have their molars ground down regularly? As mentioned, the toys won’t help wear their molars down. So there’s no health benefit to using them. But if they enjoy them then let at them

no ma’am. that’s preposterous “file” as in dulling. the statement previously mentioned regarding it does not provide any type benefits is inaccurate. the molars statement is entirely accurate. although insinuating that toys do not contribute any assistance towards their dental health at all is inaccurate. it’s misinformation. toys do NOT assist in dulling their molars, hay typically does that for them. toys DO help in dulling their incisors & therefore do provide assistance to their dental needs. there are many ways to dull them, toys being only one option. some people use only hay, some people use toys, some people go to a veterinarian clinic. it’s a preference

 

[Deleted member 139433]

You've already had excellent advice re cage sizes so I wont repeat. I am however looking forward to seeing their new space. I'm sure lots of us on here are happy to share our cage creations to help you with ideas. I find C&C by far the best option as you can create any space you like. Also, as an owner of several boars, I can also assure you that they will definitely need their space from each other.

As for the toys, and as a previous owner (as many others are on here) of a dental piggy, I spent many a long trip to see who are regarded as the best guinea pig dental specialists in the UK, I can definitely confirm that the toys will have no impact on teeth health and wearing. It is the same in other species (herbivores) that have continuously growing teeth. If toys were an option for dental health, it would definitely be recommended by these vets. There would also be more evidence in the literature (though as we know, there is very limited reliable literature on guinea pigs at present).

It's lovely that your piggies like them for entertainment - mine have never bothered with them. They much prepare hay piles to burrow in! They will also entertain the occasional card board tube stuffed with hay. I would also be very careful with pet shop bought toys as they are not always considered safe for many small mammals. It's the same with dog toys and treats - I'm always very careful of what I buy from a pet shop.

The only sure way to maintain dental health is ad-lib, excellent quality fibre in the form or hay and grass etc. The health of the incisors usually correlates with the health and condition of the molars. A work colleague of mine actually has some research published; discussing dental health in small herbivores as a result of modern management and feeding of fibre. As a specialist in her field, she agrees that toys have no impact and that some toys/chews can have negative impact on the correct wearing and structure of incisors. I have seen this myself in our horses (particularly those we have had in from the rescue centres) with extremely similar dental structure, those that chewed on wood (crib biting) or excessively biting on objects such as toys or plastic feeding mangers (as a result of lack of high fibre diets) actually had uneven wear and some structural damage to incisors over time; this then eventually led to problems with the molars and structural integrity of the jaw.

Just let us all know if you would like us all to share cage set up ideas

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke what's the history of Swiss welfare laws for guinea pigs? I'm curious how they came about.

A new animal welfare law which, like any law requires a mandatory vote (the Swiss are voting all kinds of issues 4-6 times a year as they have a much more direct democracy where the ultimate control is with the people and not the parliament or government), was voted down in the 1990ies because it was widely felt that it was watered down too much during the parliamentary debate.
As a result, the next attempt in 2004 was a very comprehensive take on enshrining the 5 Animal Freedoms in law. This includes legally forbidding the sale and ownership of single animals in any group species of which guinea pigs are one (no longer being allowed to keep guinea pigs as singles was actually rather ridiculed at the time). Anyway, this time the law was emphatically passed. However, Switzerland is still the only country which has not just recognised the 5 Animal Freedoms (like the UK in 2006 or the USA) but has also put them fully into law and is enforcing their adherence and practice. It was people power that has brought this about; if left to a government working from the top down, animal rights, especially for small pets, inevitably come well down any agenda if they are actually on the agenda at all...

There have been some kinks that needed to be found a working solution for but the situation in Switzerland is made to work by baby boar castration. Pet shops can only sell cages from the legal minimal cage size onward (which is European standard and frankly sub-standard but at least better than the hamster-sized 'starter cages' in the rest of the world). Shops and breeders can only sell mixed gender pairs with the baby boar castrated at around 200-250g of weight before becoming sexually active at 3 weeks while fertile boars are strictly allowed only in the hands of licensed breeders who are regularly controlled and have to renew their licence pending an inspection. This means that there are no unplanned pregnancies, hardly any fall-outs between piggies and very few cases of indiscriminate breeding, which will land you in court if you are found to be breeding illegally.

There is a grey area as what happens if one of a pair dies but this is being worked around by 'renting' a breeder guinea pig which then returns to the breeder after the death of the owned piggy. Swiss rescues are demanding much higher standards of ownership (the picture above won't get you a pass for adopting guinea pigs) because they have many more people wanting to adopt than they have adoptable piggies so they can be really, really, REALLY picky.
@Swissgreys lives in Switzerland and is much more up to date with the handling of the law.

The 5 Animal Freedoms are:

1. Freedom from hunger or thirst by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour
2. Freedom from discomfort by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area
3. Freedom from pain, injury or disease by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment
4. Freedom to express (most) normal behaviour by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind
5. Freedom from fear and distress by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering

PS: As for cage ideas, you may find our member galleries very helpful, @mackie . For larger cages, C&C grids work out more cheaply than commercial cages and are also more flexible in the case of a fall-out. It is worth doing your research and saving up for a good-sized cage.
Member Gallery: C&C cages/homemade cages
Member Gallery: Commercial Cages
All About C & C Grid Cages Around The World

 

[mackie]

You've already had excellent advice re cage sizes so I wont repeat. I am however looking forward to seeing their new space. I'm sure lots of us on here are happy to share our cage creations to help you with ideas. I find C&C by far the best option as you can create any space you like. Also, as an owner of several boars, I can also assure you that they will definitely need their space from each other.

As for the toys, and as a previous owner (as many others are on here) of a dental piggy, I spent many a long trip to see who are regarded as the best guinea pig dental specialists in the UK, I can definitely confirm that the toys will have no impact on teeth health and wearing. It is the same in other species (herbivores) that have continuously growing teeth. If toys were an option for dental health, it would definitely be recommended by these vets. There would also be more evidence in the literature (though as we know, there is very limited reliable literature on guinea pigs at present).

It's lovely that your piggies like them for entertainment - mine have never bothered with them. They much prepare hay piles to burrow in! They will also entertain the occasional card board tube stuffed with hay. I would also be very careful with pet shop bought toys as they are not always considered safe for many small mammals. It's the same with dog toys and treats - I'm always very careful of what I buy from a pet shop.

The only sure way to maintain dental health is ad-lib, excellent quality fibre in the form or hay and grass etc. The health of the incisors usually correlates with the health and condition of the molars. A work colleague of mine actually has some research published; discussing dental health in small herbivores as a result of modern management and feeding of fibre. As a specialist in her field, she agrees that toys have no impact and that some toys/chews can have negative impact on the correct wearing and structure of incisors. I have seen this myself in our horses (particularly those we have had in from the rescue centres) with extremely similar dental structure, those that chewed on wood (crib biting) or excessively biting on objects such as toys or plastic feeding mangers (as a result of lack of high fibre diets) actually had uneven wear and some structural damage to incisors over time; this then eventually led to problems with the molars and structural integrity of the jaw.

Just let us all know if you would like us all to share cage set up ideas

i love the advice! i’m informed differently, & that’s okay! different locations obviously carry different information (especially veterinarian advice) i appreciate the time it took to type all of this. very informative! as i previously mentioned, the toys are for maintaining entertainment for them. not limited to dental health. i’m not testing the accuracy supporting the information. i am simply saying all veterinarians tend to see things differently. that specific veterinarians may be veracious, or may not be. i’m assuming this information is published & the accuracy of it has been reviewed by a veterinarian medical board? do veterinarians practice this opinion & give this information to their patients? i’d love to see more regarding this information & the origins of it. specifically the original veterinarian of this theory & the article supporting it. multiple veterinarians, articles, & studies are proof that toys do help. it is effective in some gp’s, not all. it might be due to different locations? i might not be seeing the same information as listed above. some veterinarians’ opinions may differ. as i specified previously, some people use toys & some people do not. & that’s that i’m up for some investigation regarding the ‘disadvantages’ of using toys in this manner.

 

[Deleted member 139433]

i love the advice! i’m informed differently, & that’s okay! different locations obviously carry different information (especially veterinarian advice) i appreciate the time it took to type all of this. very informative! as i previously mentioned, the toys are for maintaining entertainment for them. not limited to dental health. i’m not testing the accuracy supporting the information. i am simply saying all veterinarians tend to see things differently. that specific veterinarians may be veracious, or may not be. i’m assuming this information is published & the accuracy of it has been reviewed by a veterinarian medical board? do veterinarians practice this opinion & give this information to their patients? i’d love to see more regarding this information & the origins of it. specifically the original veterinarian of this theory & the article supporting it. multiple veterinarians, articles, & studies are proof that toys do help. it is effective in some gp’s, not all. it might be due to different locations? i might not be seeing the same information as listed above. some veterinarians’ opinions may differ. as i specified previously, some people use toys & some people do not. & that’s that i’m up for some investigation regarding the ‘disadvantages’ of using toys in this manner.

Of course. I appreciate your open-mindedness and I'm fully aware how much variation their is in academic research of a veterinary manner from country to country; with different countries more often than not adopting a widely differing ethical stance.
Any work published as a result of research at our academic institution is of course peer-reviewed by professionals in their field. Small Animal Veterinary Journals contain the publication (you are welcome to use google scholar to locate the paper 'Importance of high-fibre diets in contrast to alternative dental management systems in small and large herbivores') though I do predict you will have limited access. It does also appear as a sub-publication in our Equine Veterinary Journals (and other equine literature) as a result of reference to larger herbivores and their dental structures to make comparisons. We have access to full publications as an academic institution, but I'm sure you appreciate I cannot hand out access to publications to the general public.
With regards to impact of solid objects and toys on dental structure and mandibular health, this is published again in Equine Veterinary Journals and similar sources. Yes, not guinea pigs, but similar impacts are likely to be seen in other herbivores that rely on the same dental mechanisms and chewing motions.
I cannot comment on other veterinary practices, but I do fully support the opinion of the dental vets that I use. They also advocate the need for further guinea pig research but can fully support their opinions based upon years of expertise and successes in their field.
I'm sure my small animal colleagues would be more than happy to discuss this further, though as I'm sure you can appreciate, they are very busy and have limited capacity to share access to literature/ongoing research outside of the institution. They are also very open to discussion with regards to appropriate environments for small animals as a lot of money and time is dedicated to enclosure research for a wide variety of species.

 

[mackie]

Of course. I appreciate your open-mindedness and I'm fully aware how much variation their is in academic research of a veterinary manner from country to country; with different countries more often than not adopting a widely differing ethical stance.
Any work published as a result of research at our academic institution is of course peer-reviewed by professionals in their field. Small Animal Veterinary Journals contain the publication (you are welcome to use google scholar to locate the paper 'Importance of high-fibre diets in contrast to alternative dental management systems in small and large herbivores') though I do predict you will have limited access. It does also appear as a sub-publication in our Equine Veterinary Journals (and other equine literature) as a result of reference to larger herbivores and their dental structures to make comparisons. We have access to full publications as an academic institution, but I'm sure you appreciate I cannot hand out access to publications to the general public.
With regards to impact of solid objects and toys on dental structure and mandibular health, this is published again in Equine Veterinary Journals and similar sources. Yes, not guinea pigs, but similar impacts are likely to be seen in other herbivores that rely on the same dental mechanisms and chewing motions.
I cannot comment on other veterinary practices, but I do fully support the opinion of the dental vets that I use. They also advocate the need for further guinea pig research but can fully support their opinions based upon years of expertise and successes in their field.
I'm sure my small animal colleagues would be more than happy to discuss this further, though as I'm sure you can appreciate, they are very busy and have limited capacity to share access to literature/ongoing research outside of the institution. They are also very open to discussion with regards to appropriate environments for small animals as a lot of money and time is dedicated to enclosure research for a wide

from the information i am able to gather, i’m finding it impossible to support this assumption. i’m going to assume it’s due to different locations,

Of course. I appreciate your open-mindedness and I'm fully aware how much variation their is in academic research of a veterinary manner from country to country; with different countries more often than not adopting a widely differing ethical stance.
Any work published as a result of research at our academic institution is of course peer-reviewed by professionals in their field. Small Animal Veterinary Journals contain the publication (you are welcome to use google scholar to locate the paper 'Importance of high-fibre diets in contrast to alternative dental management systems in small and large herbivores') though I do predict you will have limited access. It does also appear as a sub-publication in our Equine Veterinary Journals (and other equine literature) as a result of reference to larger herbivores and their dental structures to make comparisons. We have access to full publications as an academic institution, but I'm sure you appreciate I cannot hand out access to publications to the general public.
With regards to impact of solid objects and toys on dental structure and mandibular health, this is published again in Equine Veterinary Journals and similar sources. Yes, not guinea pigs, but similar impacts are likely to be seen in other herbivores that rely on the same dental mechanisms and chewing motions.
I cannot comment on other veterinary practices, but I do fully support the opinion of the dental vets that I use. They also advocate the need for further guinea pig research but can fully support their opinions based upon years of expertise and successes in their field.
I'm sure my small animal colleagues would be more than happy to discuss this further, though as I'm sure you can appreciate, they are very busy and have limited capacity to share access to literature/ongoing research outside of the institution. They are also very open to discussion with regards to appropriate environments for small animals as a lot of money and time is dedicated to enclosure research for a wide variety of species.

very interesting! is there any way to access this information? or some material regarding this information to look at? (e.g. factual sites, educational veterinarian journals, libraries that may hold information on this?) i’d love to see more on this!

 

[Deleted member 139433]

from the information i am able to gather, i’m finding it impossible to support this assumption. i’m going to assume it’s due to different locations,

very interesting! is there any way to access this information? or some material regarding this information to look at? (e.g. factual sites, educational veterinarian journals, libraries that may hold information on this?) i’d love to see more on this!

What access do you currently have to international publications? I strongly suggest google scholar. It is unlikely that individual veterinary practices will publish the information, as this will be reserved for veterinary research and educational institutions. Veterinary professionals do not feel the need/nor are obligated to publicly publish the education/research behind the expertise that they have to offer.
I'm not sure how you go about accessing academic literature in the US? I presume you will need to go via educational institutions too?
Best of luck in your search. Perhaps a discussion within the field in your own country will also be of use? That's presuming you are of an educational/research background?

There is always going to be differing opinion, whether than be academic, professional or the opinion of those with hands on experience. I've been more than open to discussion, and fully support my initial comments that toys are not a recommendation for maintenance of dental health, with the advice of veterinary professionals and those with years of practical experience from whom I've developed my own knowledge of guinea pig care (mostly thanks to this forum).

I would be more than happy to continue to discuss, but I can't help feel that your reactions to comments and your replies are somewhat facetious. I'm sure others will be happy to continue this discussion.

Best of luck in your research and search for further information - it is nice that you care so much about your piggies