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Calcium Queries - What Am I Doing Wrong?!

Rachel116

New Born Pup
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Hi All,

Apologies for the long post but I'm at a loss and have never had calcium issues with my previous piggies. The vets are at a loss when it comes to my piggies too as they can't see what I am doing wrong either. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Symptoms
Wilbur - 2 year old neutered male recue with a history of a poor diet. I have had him since August. Has always had a few wees daily with calcium deposits however not sludgy, gritty and no discolouration or blood. I would class the deposits as normal just too frequent.

Willow - 14 months I have had since 12 weeks old female, spayed two weeks ago due to very severe hormonal issues. Passing sludge every two to three days (see image) we have just treated her for a UTI as she was passing some blood, since starting antibiotics blood has gone. I suspect she has been passing sludge for a couple of months however hard to know as they were on shavings up until beginning of March - I changed to fleece to monitor wees and prepare for spay surgery. I had noticed some sludge in January and February however I assumed it was Wilbur due to his past. Since having them separated due to her spay surgery I can confirm Willow is the only one passing the sludge. In between the sludge passing episodes her wees are clear, which is also what threw me off it being her.

Diet
I have had a lot of guinea pigs before and never had issues with calcium/sludge or stones with what I have fed in the past. I have been careful given Wilbur's issues and since noticing the sludge end of Jan I have been even more careful but maybe I am missing something?!
Water: Tesco Ashbeck - they are both very good drinkers and drink at least two thirds of a bottle between them a day.
Hay: Great quality Timothy Hay from Hay Shed ad-lib. In the winter I use meadow hay in a snuggle/burrow area however since being on fleece they haven't had that.
Pellets: 40g shared per day of Science Selective Guinea Pig pellets. I have recently started doing 20g in the morning and 20g in evening to spread it out.
Veg: AM: (Per Pig) 1cm thick disc of cucumber, 1cm chunk carrot, a little patch clump of grass cut from the garden, 1cm think slice of pepper (colour varies). PM: (Per Pig) 1cm thick disc of cucumber, 1/4 stick of celery, 1-2 leaves of romaine lettuce depending on size of leaf.
Treats: They get the occasional selective naturals meadow loop or a timothy hay based chew. They also get a little readi-grass if it has been too wet/frosty to cut grass from the garden.

In terms of treatment, Willows bladder will probably be flushed once she has recovered from her spay. I am trying to avoid having to get Wilbur's done if possible as he is a timid little boy and I worry the vet stay will stress him out. I don't want to flush the bladder and then it reoccur as I haven't stopped the cause.

Again sorry for the long post but I am at the end of my tether and must be missing something. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. How long does calcium build up take to improve/clear following a diet change?
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Sorry I can’t advise but want you to know that I’m holding you in my thoughts.
A mystery like this is so frustrating
 
Looks like you are doing everything right. I am sorry you are going through this
 
Have you asked over at Guinea Lynx a US based medical website and forum?
 
Hi

You may want to cut out the carrot - that is like feeding block chocolate but you may give instead a sprig of coriander and once or twice a week a one inch slice of greens. It is a higher calcium veg but it also contains vitamin C and crucially magnesium, which is not in enriched foods like pellets. You could give a green bean instead of carrot or another herb once or twice a week.

It could be that you are just a little too low or too high in terms of calcium and that the balance is just a touch out.
I would cut the pellets a bit further because that gives you more leeway with higher calcium veg which often also come with more trace elements, vitamin C and/or magnesium.

When using US sources for the UK (or vice versa), it is important to know that the USA is mainly a soft water country whereas the UK is mainly a hard water country. Most calcium is coming via the water and pellets (even no added calcium pellets have more of it than the same weight of kale, the veg highest in calcium). I would not remove pellets altogether but you can replace part of them with forage - fresh or dry.

It is worth trying to think in terms of diet that there are basically only three food groups:
- water
- grass fibre (hay and fresh grass), making over three quarters of the daily food intake
- replacing wild forage in the original diet: veg, fresh and dry forage, pellets, any treats etc.
It can help to perceive the latter as a single group so you can trade in between. They are not lots of single independent groups - they add up to a total that needs to harmonise with your water.

Wild piggies do actually know how to balance their forage and will deliberately eat plants according to how the actual phosphorus : calcium : nitrate balance is depending on the season and the forage plants available so that their balance is as ideal as possible. Little factoid for the day... :)

I wish you all the best. It can be difficult to find the right balance for your location and your own diet, the concept of which keep evolving, which means new adaptations and rebalancing for us.

As to stones and sludge, part of it is down to genetics, not being good natural drinkers (nothing you can do about that but bacteria in the bladder can also contribute to stones) or something suddenly going wrong in the complex calcium absorption process - unless you grossly overfeed calcium rich food which is the most surefire way for causing them (which you don't, of course).
By the way, stones are usually formed from carbohydrates and not calcium.
 
Thank you everyone it’s reassuring to know there wasn’t something glaringly obvious I am doing wrong! Hopefully I can get them sorted soon. What’s good to know is they both seem to be happy and comfortable piggies. My female is on Metacam post op and as precaution to help relieve any inflammation from the sludge. We will decide where to go next at the next vet visit on Saturday.
 
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