Can adding another older sow calm younger piggies?

[Chloe.123]

Hi. I currently have 2 sows they are 4 nearly 5 months old. They are still quite nervous and I think this is because of where they came from. I am able to pick them up in the hutch to go into the run etc but this comes with it’s own problems... Honey the more dominant of the two, bites and she bites very hard! I have now started carrying her in one arm with food in my hand to distract her.

I am starting this as this evening I needed to cut their nails and Honey put up a big fight to avoid me touching her feet, I had to wrap her in a towel while my partner cut them.
I am now wondering if an older sow would help to calm them? At the moment they only have each other to feed off with the emotions

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Bill & Ted]

Have you thought of letting them go into a snuggle pouch or small cardboard box when transporting them from hutch to run. They are really easy to train to do this. They will naturally find somewhere to hide when cornered, so will pop into a snuggle pouch quite easily. I did this when Bill and Ted where small and they soon got used to doing this, it’s safer too.

Not sure about older female as I have only males, but it sounds like it would make sense: I’m sure someone with more experience will be along shortly.

 

[HeatherW]

How long have you had them for and what's their background? Wiebke is guinea pig behaviour guru. How do you currently approach and pick them up? And at what point does Honey start to bite?

If you can give more info on that, we may be able to get a better insight to possible triggers for her behaviour.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi. I currently have 2 sows they are 4 nearly 5 months old. They are still quite nervous and I think this is because of where they came from. I am able to pick them up in the hutch to go into the run etc but this comes with it’s own problems... Honey the more dominant of the two, bites and she bites very hard! I have now started carrying her in one arm with food in my hand to distract her.

I am starting this as this evening I needed to cut their nails and Honey put up a big fight to avoid me touching her feet, I had to wrap her in a towel while my partner cut them.
I am now wondering if an older sow would help to calm them? At the moment they only have each other to feed off with the emotions

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any help!

Your girls are right in the thick of the teenage months right now. Sows also go through them but as they rarely end in fights and fall-outs, it is a much less known fact. If you want to look for an adult to take their pointers from, I would strongly recommend looking for a neutered rescue boar rather than a sow and preferably reescue date them if you can get to a rescue that offers dating (unfortunately, the Blue Cross doesn't and most RSPCA branches also don't offer dating under experienced supervision).

As to the behaviour, please take the time to read these guides here. You will hopefully find them very helpful.
How Do I Settle Shy New Guinea Pigs?
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig
" Biting" And What You Can Do

Approaching the problem from the prey animal guinea pig and not the human perspective and using their social needs and interactive body language to establish a framework they instinctively understand and accept will hopefully get you there without use of force. Always start with a welcoming and loving gesture. Establish friendly dominance - you are inviting your piggies into the group you are leading. Tell them that you love them, but also assert your dominance when it comes to misbehaviour. You as the leader says what goes in your group! Always end with a gesture of love.
This is how savvy neutered boars integrate new piggies into their group and assert their dominance seemingly effortless. It is surprisingly effective!

As to picking up and settling them down, it is a matter of avoiding triggering their prey animal instincts. Getting them used to your hands as a source of food and treats can also help. Keep in mind that your two girls have likely been born to a somewhat stressed mother at a mass breeder's and that they have had virtually no friendly human interaction before they were ripped away transported to a shop and sold into a rather frightening home with so many strange sounds and smells, feeling very lost in unknown territory in the power of an unpredictable predator.

These guides are all part of our new owners guide collection, which also contains a list of recommended rescues, bonding and behaviour guides.
Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

 

[Claire W]

I agree with the above that @Wiebke is our behaviourist specialist.

The only problem with adding a third is that one girl may end up being left out. I once had a trio of girls and the youngest ended up being left ont which is why I ended up with four

That doesn’t mean to say that 3 sows won’t work out though. My latest 3 girls before I added a neutered boar was a very happy trio. It all depends on the personality of the piggies

 

[PigglePuggle]

We added a pair of older ladies (not on purpose, a nice but clueless chap who lives near us needed to rehome them) and a neutered boar, and although this distracted my hormonal girls a bit it created a whole new set of bonding and behaviour issues. One older lady might get bullied if she's not used to feisty teenagers, or a dominant older lady might team up with one of the others and someone could be left out. A neutered boar is lovely but the girls might fight over him or even be scared of him! All these things are options but wont solve any existing issues with your piggies.
Wiebke's advice and bonding and behaviour guides are brilliant, have a good read and think about things before commiting to extra piggies

 

[Chloe.123]

How long have you had them for and what's their background? Wiebke is guinea pig behaviour guru. How do you currently approach and pick them up? And at what point does Honey start to bite?

If you can give more info on that, we may be able to get a better insight to possible triggers for her behaviour.

I’ve had them for nearly 3 months, I’ve tried everything that I did with my boys sitting quietly with them, hand feeding etc. I got them from a lady who called herself a ‘hobby breeder ‘ they were kept in indoor cages in her garage with (I’m guessing) very little handling. I knew I should have walked away but when I saw them I just couldn’t!

Honey is very confident in her hutch she will come up to you when you open the door and let you stroke her, she can be a difficult to pick her up and I think I panic and then she panics. She starts to bite when I move to walk towards the run, I wondered if it was the motion of moving that’s she’s not used to? Her sister is still very nervous but she has come a long way.

 

[Chloe.123]

Have you thought of letting them go into a snuggle pouch or small cardboard box when transporting them from hutch to run. They are really easy to train to do this. They will naturally find somewhere to hide when cornered, so will pop into a snuggle pouch quite easily. I did this when Bill and Ted where small and they soon got used to doing this, it’s safer too.

Not sure about older female as I have only males, but it sounds like it would make sense: I’m sure someone with more experience will be along shortly.

Thank you. I will try the cardboard box tomorrow!

 

[Chloe.123]

Your girls are right in the thick of the teenage months right now. Sows also go through them but as they rarely end in fights and fall-outs, it is a much less known fact. If you want to look for an adult to take their pointers from, I would strongly recommend looking for a neutered rescue boar rather than a sow and preferably reescue date them if you can get to a rescue that offers dating (unfortunately, the Blue Cross doesn't and most RSPCA branches also don't offer dating under experienced supervision).

As to the behaviour, please take the time to read these guides here. You will hopefully find them very helpful.
How Do I Settle Shy New Guinea Pigs?
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig
" Biting" And What You Can Do

Approaching the problem from the prey animal guinea pig and not the human perspective and using their social needs and interactive body language to establish a framework they instinctively understand and accept will hopefully get you there without use of force. Always start with a welcoming and loving gesture. Establish friendly dominance - you are inviting your piggies into the group you are leading. Tell them that you love them, but also assert your dominance when it comes to misbehaviour. You as the leader says what goes in your group! Always end with a gesture of love.
This is how savvy neutered boars integrate new piggies into their group and assert their dominance seemingly effortless. It is surprisingly effective!

As to picking up and settling them down, it is a matter of avoiding triggering their prey animal instincts. Getting them used to your hands as a source of food and treats can also help. Keep in mind that your two girls have likely been born to a somewhat stressed mother at a mass breeder's and that they have had virtually no friendly human interaction before they were ripped away transported to a shop and sold into a rather frightening home with so many strange sounds and smells, feeling very lost in unknown territory in the power of an unpredictable predator.

These guides are all part of our new owners guide collection, which also contains a list of recommended rescues, bonding and behaviour guides.
Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

Thanks! I didn’t realise sows went through a hormone phase. I may consider a neutered boar, it’s not something I had even thought about. I will try everything possible to get closer to them first. I’d prefer adding another piggie as a last resort.

As for where I got them from, they really didn’t come from the best place and like you said no friendly interaction at all. I think this has played a big part in their behaviour now

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks! I didn’t realise sows went through a hormone phase. I may consider a neutered boar, it’s not something I had even thought about. I will try everything possible to get closer to them first. I’d prefer adding another piggie as a last resort.

As for where I got them from, they really didn’t come from the best place and like you said no friendly interaction at all. I think this has played a big part in their behaviour now

Try avoiding any predatory behaviour and use our piggy whispering tips. I have and have had lots of rescue piggies over the years. If you use their language, they will understand you and accept you much easier. And, as other members can tell you, the piggy whispering trick really works because you mimic what a guinea pig group leader would do in that situation.

The rest is patience and persistence.

Adding another piggy is not always the best situation unless the piggies can choose and accept each other before you bring a new addition home. Otherwise it can go rather horribly wrong.

All the best!

 

[HeatherW]

Body language definitely makes a difference. My Pickle defensively "bit" (but didn't close her teeth or aim to draw blood) my OH the other day. Pickle's never done that before, so although he said he was moving slowly, I think he may have been moving his hand towards her like a snake (slow but aiming straight for her).

I usually move my hand alongside (rather than directly towards) and, if I see them start to flinch, I pause and keep talking to them to give them the chance to work out what I'm doing and that I'm not a threat. Before I touch them, I let them have a moment to sniff me first before they either stay and let me pet them or run off because they're not in the mood!