Can anyone help me sort out Pippin please?

[elizabeth_stocker]

Hello there, I have a very small black sheltie guinea pig called Pippin. She is 2.5 years old. Both her and her twin sister became ill two months ago with some sort of stomach problem. They both suffered from diarrhoea and were treated by the vet with Baytril and Panacur and anti inflammatory. Until last week both seemed to have recovered completely apart from producing bright orange / brownish urine.

On monday morning Pippin had another bad attack of very soft droppings but seemed fine and then yesterday (thursday) I woke up to find her refusing to eat anything at all and very lethargic. Her belly was quite swollen but soft and quite lumpy feeling. No evidence of any droppings. I took her to the vet again yesterday and they said that they thought she had liver problems and gave her a mild steroid and another course of baytril.

Last night she started eating again and then passed the strangest droppings I have ever seen (see attached picture). The overall length produced was about 4" - 5" in length. They are shiny and have a sticky coating but are extremely dry and hard. When I broke them apart they are dry and very hard inside. I expected them to be soft and I don't know how she managed to pass them out. Since they have gone she is behaving normally and appetite is back.

I have never seen anything like this before and wondered if anyone could advise. I am particularly worried about the orange urine and the prospect of her having liver damage.

She is an adorable little pig and I think the world of her - so sweet!

Thank you in advance, Elizabeth

 

[missy]

Hi Elizabeth.

Poor little piggies! I can see why you'd be so worried, especially about Pippin.

I'm afraid I don't really know much about liver problems and have no experience of piggies with similar conditions but I'm sure other people will be able to help.

I was just wondering if they'd been given a probiotic alongside the Baytril as antibiotics are very harsh on piggy tummies and, whilst not being the cause of everything, Baytril could definitely affect a piggy's appetite and upset tums. If Pippin is still on Baytril then I'd definitely look at giving her a probiotic too, if not already.

Also, if Pippin goes completely off her food again I would syringe-feed her food to ensure that her digestive system keeps working (it's vital for guinea pigs to keep eating regularly). I wouldn't be surprised if the unusual poos have been caused by the fact that she stopped eating for a day or so. There are specially designed pre-prepared emergency feeds (eg Critical Care, available from vets or online) or it's possible to make a mushed up feed by soaking regular guinea pig pellets in water - just ask if you need help with any of this.

Just to clarify, is it only Pippin who has the discoloured urine or does her sister also have it? And are there any signs of discomfort when peeing or pooing? Has the Vet tested the urine at all?

Hope you get all the answers and help you need.

Best of luck to you all

 

[Abi_nurse]

The orange urine may have been the signs of the liver problems but has your vet tested for a urine infection? Its hard to know what to suggest because any number of things can go wrong with the liver and different things need different medications and treatments. What did your vet say exactly? Your piggie may benifit from some probiotics, if she is on bayril and had steroids its going to put a bit of strain on her guts and probiotics will help balance out the bacteria in the gut.

I really hope she starts feeling better soon. Love being sent your way.

x.

 

[missy]

Also, forgot to say...has Pippin been drinking plenty of water? She could well be dehydrated. Have her poos gone back to normal or are they still very hard? If I were you I would make up some Dioralyte type rehydration solution (for humans) and give her some orally, via syringe. It's probably worth taking her back to the Vet though, especially if her poos aren't back to normal yet, as dehydration can obviously be serious and, with suspected liver issues, you need to be careful what you give her.

 

[louise_stocker]

Hi
I'm Elizabeth's sister and just wanted to post a picture of Pippin and her sister so you all know what beautiful little piggies they are. Lots of love to you both and hope you're feeling better soon.

Louise xx

 

[missy]

Hi
I'm Elizabeth's sister and just wanted to post a picture of Pippin and her sister so you all know what beautiful little piggies they are. Lots of love to you both and hope you're feeling better soon.

Louise xx

They are certainly beautiful piggies x

 

[elizabeth_stocker]

Hello Missy, thank you so much for this - it is the first time I have used the forum so please excuse my lack of knowledge in using it. Pippin is much better and eating and drinking normally. She is still on Baytril and I am giving her protexin Bio Lapis and did do last time for at least a week after she finished the antibiotics. She is behaving normally but is not passing much from her bowels at all. Just tiny little pellets about a 2 - 3mm long. I think that her gut has not been functioning properly for about 8 weeks now but hoped that with the probiotic and normal feeding it would sort itself out on its own. I suspect that her gut is probably bunging up again and am waiting to see what happens tomorrow. My sister tells me that the vet can give a gut stimulant and I was wondering about asking for this is there is no improvement in the next couple of days. Can you advise on this? Thank you so much again for your time. Elizabeth

 

[elizabeth_stocker]

I should have mentioned, there is no sign of any discomfort on peeing or pooing. My last guinea pig lived to be 8.5 years and had numerous bladder infections so I am familiar with this. Thank you again

 

[guineagurl]

I don't really know much about this but I just wanted to say Pippin and her sis are stunningx)x)x)x) I really hope Pippin gets better soon P.S Welcome to the forum!

 

[elizabeth_stocker]

Thank you Abi nurse - the vet wasn't particularly helpful really and just said they thought it was her liver and that steroids were the only solution. Didn't suggest testing urine at all. If I go again I will suggest this. Thank you

 

[elizabeth_stocker]

Thank you - they were about 10 weeks old on this picture - very much loved!

 

[Pebble]

My Willow started producing similar poos last night. For the last week he has been fighting an infection/ gut stasis and I have been giving him intensive nursing/feeding day and night. To date his poos have been small and crumbly but last night he started passing long thin poos with some pain associated with this.

Your piggie poos indicate there is considerable dehydration in the gut (not necessarily evident by a skin test - Willow didn't look dehydrated at all - just his poos/gut seemed affected)and possibly a problem with gut motility as well. This could have been caused by the antibioitic affecting the gut flora but there may have been oher contributory factors

Willow is now having a daily sub-cutaneous injection of fluids from the vet and being syringe fed 5-6ml diarolyte (or similar rehydration fluid) plus 3-4ml water every hour or so day and night for the next 24-48 hours. Some zantac to move the gut is also helping - 2mg/kg twice or 3 times daily....and a probioitic such as fibreplex. I am also syrnge feeding him a mix of mashed pellets/probiotic/Supreme Recovery/Vit C with a small amount of olive oil added (one teaspoon per bowlful) - 10-15ml every 3 hours.

Is she eating properly? You need to weigh her twice daily to monitor her weight as with dehydration/rehydration big changes in weight can occur over a 24hour period

As for the orange urine Willow has it too and his liver is fine!...however it is actually a normal colour immediately after he's passed it but thenchanges to orangey pink within half an hour (gave me a right fright when I saw his fleece first time) -So it might not necessarily be liver problems - some of the drugs such as anti-inflamms/vit b either contain a dye that shows up in the urine or breakdown into other compounds that are excreted and then oxidise on exposure to air, developing into orange or pink after about half an hour. Willow's urine has been checked and it is fine.

As dehydration can be life threatening I suggest that if her poos have not got more moist, you go back to the emergency vet tomorrow as early as possible for a rehydration injection, get some diarolyte from the supermarket.....and be prepared to spend the majority of your bank holiday giving fluids every 1-2 hours and food every 3 hours...Willow is showing a vast improvement compared to yesterday..which is down to syringing him through the night.
HTH
x

 

[missy]

Hi Elizabeth,

I'm glad to hear that at least Pippin is eating for herself but, as Pebble suggested, it's still a worry that her poos aren't yet back to normal and dehydration seems likely. I'm afraid I don't really have enough experience/knowledge of this particular problem to advise further, but I know that Pebble is very knowledgeable on piggy health and always gives great advice, so personally I'd definitely trust her suggestions. From what Pebble has said, it sounds like Pippin definitely needs some extra help with her digestive system even though her appetite is back.

Given that dehydration is an immediate concern, if I were you I would try giving her some Dioralyte asap (widely available in supermarkets/chemists). Even though it's marketed for humans, the renowned guinea pig specialist Peter Gurney recommended Dioralyte (given "little and often" ) so don't worry about the fact that it's not sold for animals. (I've given it to my pigs and lots of us here have also)

Sorry I can't help further but it sounds like you're doing a great job so far. Hopefully you'll see big improvements soon x

 

[elizabeth_stocker]

Thank you Pebble and Missy,

We had another bad session on sunday with very bad diarrhoea with Pippin. I decided to continue with the antibiotics and give Critical care three times a day to see if I can just get her gut to settle down. It just seems to be going from one extreme to the other. Since sunday evening things seem a little more settled and thankfully Pippin seems normal, active and alert and is happily eating and drinking enthusiastically. I would be interested to know more about the gut stimulants that the vet can give - does anyone know how these work? Thank you again.

 

[missy]

Sorry to hear that Pippin had such a bad day but I'm glad that she's since improved. Fingers crossed you can find a treatment which can keep her improvement steady x

Sorry I don't know anything about that medication but hopefully someone else does.