Can I Add A Neutered Boar To My Two Girls To Stop Their Dominance/bullying Issues ?

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oxtinamona

oxtinamona

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I've got two 6 months old sows. Recently one of my babies flipped out a bit and started what I thought (still to be confirmed) was bullying but it very likely high dominance show off which involved loads of chasing and nipping and just not being nice to my other furry beauty.

We are hoping for things to ssettle very much, because I cannot bare the thought of giving one girl up(we aren't fortunate to own a house and are renting a flat and size restrictions mean we cannot have two separate c&c).
however, should the worst happen, would adding a neutered boar stabilise the girls and settle once and for all the he is the boss so they don't fight ? X
 
oxtinamona said:
I've got two 6 months old sows. Recently one of my babies flipped out a bit and started what I thought (still to be confirmed) was bullying but it very likely high dominance show off which involved loads of chasing and nipping and just not being nice to my other furry beauty.

We are hoping for things to ssettle very much, because I cannot bare the thought of giving one girl up(we aren't fortunate to own a house and are renting a flat and size restrictions mean we cannot have two separate c&c).
however, should the worst happen, would adding a neutered boar stabilise the girls and settle once and for all the he is the boss so they don't fight ? X
Click to expand...

Your girls are currently going through some teenage hormones and tend to have stronger seasons. Not just boars are affected by them, but sows, too. However, sows VERY rarely end up with a separation, which is why this is not so well known. I would not worry and jsut let them sort it out unless it escalates into outright bullying when one of the girls is systematically denied access to food or a sleeping place; if that is the case, the bullied sow perks up quickly when on her own and away from the bully.
Sow Behaviour

A boar does not intrude in the sow hierarchy; he is part of the overall group hierarchy, but he is a separate category. if you have two sows that don't get on all that well, what you will find is that the boar and one of the sows will form a closer friendship while one of the sows is going to be a bit of an outsider.
 
Hello,
I hope someone will see this as I don't want to start a new thread. Further to my previous issues... Just when we thought they calmed down, past 4 days or so Ginger has gone back to the 'dark side' again... when it all happened biscuit lost a bit of weight, then we they seems to be getting along agin( Ginger was in heat when they were getting along ok) she or weight on. Previous weighing she stayed the same and yesterday I saw she put some weight on. The thing is that Ginger is continuously chasing her off... If biscuit is on the blanket or upstairs... She'll find her and chase her off. And I mean she'll get up even if she's relaxing just to find her and chase her off. She wasn't nipping her, so I made them some of these cozys all pig seems to love and they do love the indeed. except that Ginger just won't let Biscuit in them for more than a minute. Unless she won't notice it... But the minute she clicks she's inside she goes for her. I made 4 of them and deliberately put all 4 in the cage to see what happens. It's not like she hasn't got one for hersel ! She's got 4 to chose from. The only difference is that Biscuit seems to be moving a bit more around cage,
Unlike at first when it all kicked of when she was confined to one space.
I think that Ginger is a very cowardly piggy of that makes sense. Everything scares her. Sometimes she even spooks herself by simply moving the bedding around ?!?!? And I sometimes feel that it is like with bullying in humans. Only cowards are bullies. Right now I wish I could send a video. They're both downstairs. Bisucit is in a cozy, 3 others a free and Gingee is over her chattering her teeth with Buiscit making really low squeaky noise , almost breathless ...
 
Hi! Sadly, a neutered boar is not going to stop the bullying as he is not part of the sow hierarchy. It looks very much like there is no love lost between your girls. :(

As this is ongoing, I would recommend to separate and to find them a character compatible friend each, ideally of their own choosing at a good rescue that offer this service (which can be either a neutered boar or another sow of any age, as long as they like each other).

Once piggies have decided they don't like another, there is unfortunately nothing you can do to change their mind. Sows will usually not fight and bite, but they can bully and they can fall out with each other, only that is often somewhat more subtle, but no less permanent.
Guinea Pig Rescue Centre Locator

I have been there with sows of my own; most recently with my peru group of 4 sows and a neutered boar. They are now living in pairs, one of the sows with a new husboar... Two of the sows are pretty much on the last companion they get on with. :(

It is never a pleasant decision to make.
 
I wish I could upload a video I recorded just now so you guys can see and I don't know anymore if I'm being overactive or not... It's really difficult. Especially that after I posted my original thread "
Dominance,or is it bullying' around Easter they seemed to have settled a week after... They slept next to each other, they were popcorning in the play pen like crazy and playing... So I thought it was a good sign and then she started again end of last week... Can they even change their mind to that degree ?! Even humans don't. I mean, why wiifm they be fine after all this chasing and nipping and then get back to chasing and teeth chattering ?perhaps Ginger isn't confident enough to even be a dominant pigs she's scared of her own shadow and she spooks Bisucit who's normally cool as cucumber
 
#wiebke, thank you for replying... This is probably one of the toughest decision of my life I'll have to make now. Do I want another week or two, or do I do it now? God knows.
I am guessing rescue centres will need some kind of a heads up that we may be heading their way
 
Just look at them now, they sleep next to each other like nothing happened ! ginger curled on the left, Biscuit on the right.. I am so confused and desperate not to make the wrong decision it's simply unreal!

image.webp image.webp
 
It's possible your girls are hormonal my twins only get tubes to run through as one in particular is a complete madam. Any time I have to put them in a confined space she asserts her dominance. Her Sister is very local and submissive, you would think she was being murdered. Her Sister behaved the exact same, even with a neutered boar.

As they settle I would be inclined to leave them together for the time being..
 
It's very hard for us, as effectively we couldn't just give them two separate cages. We live in the flat and have no room for that kind of set up sadly... What we have now (5x2+2x2) loft is an optimal use the space and we even got new sofa to incorporate our girls... They have loss of room in the cage as it now, and even if we had space and we were to put them in 2X3 each then they really lose that length Too ☹️

It's catch 22 literally... What you described flintstones sounds a bit like my two terrors. Well only one of them is a terror... I only wonder how much longer do I give them before Biscuits lovely personality suffers ...
 
Hi Wiebke and Flintstones,
Just wanted to say thank you for your help.
Today we came home and to my surprise I noticed that Biscuit has a cut right under her eye, which is quite deep. I only noticed it as I was stroking her lovely face and behind ear and my hand swept over ...
It is quite deep and must have happened and today or yesterday...we didn't think Ginger will move this far but I guess it was all wishful thinking.
Over past days we noticed that Ginger's behaviours against Biscuit escalated in terms of chasing her off good for example. She didn't use to do it. 3 beds and she wouldn't let her sleep on neither, Biscuits weight pretty much remained the same after a loss so she's not gaining whilst Ginger is over 130 Gramms ahead. They used to be 30 Gramms difference roughly only.
Either way, looks like we will have to our Ginger to the rescue as we just don't have space for 2 2x3 cages living in a flat.
Spent most of an evening crying and cannot believe this is happening but will need to do what's best for them, not us.
I think putting Biscuit through the trauma of matching won't another sow will be too much so she needs a husband and I think Ginger will be happier with a boyfriend too. Thank you all again for your help and support. It's been a rough couple of months. X
 
I have had two girls who were a nightmare together. They lost their neutered boarfriend and Tara started bullying Charlotte, Tara was a very nervous piggy. I got Reuben as soon as I could and everything settled down again. It is not impossible for a neutered boy to calm down two girls, it definitely worked for Tara and Charlotte. If you were to separate them for now, just put some grids across so they each have half the space but can still communicate, talk to your local rescue and see what they suggest. Perhaps you could reintroduce the girls in neutral territory with a neutered boy, if it doesn't work then one girl could stay with the boy and the other could be rehomed.
 
I am very sorry that it is not working out. Please check that the cut under the eye is not the beginning of ringworm.
Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures

However, it may be worth looking for a neutered boar companion in a place where you can date your other sow.
 
Hi guys, thank you for replying again.

This is proving to be a nightmare, perhaps it was our naivety thinking we won't experience any issues with two little pigs taken home at the same time. I'm taking it really badly, it's been roughly 6 weeks since we noticed thing taking turn for worse, escalating in last month or so.

I haven't slept properly for ages and my dreams mainly conclude pigs, pig chase, pigs escaping my flat, pigs being ill and pigs fighting bloody....

Wound doesn't look like a ringworm, it is more like a cut that sliced off/open a bit of skin creating like a 'pocket' type of cut? If that even makes sense. Today it looks like it's healing but I will of course keep an eye on her, as I feel incompetent to make any judgement now.

I'm currently at loss what to do, but I know it will have to be best decision for them, not for us and our selfish reasons:no:

I split them yesterday and they both seemed miserable when I came back from work.
I probably am risking being judged here but I put Ginger back in , I was there to supervise them. They looked like they missed each other, rumlestrutting and humping started instantly, a bit of grooming, Gnger pop corned quite a lot , Biscuit tiny bit..etc.To me it looks like love hate relationship.

I went to the kitchen for 20 second and she chased her around the loft. I left room again to get tea, 40 seconds (and I can see cage from the kitchen) she chased her again. So I took her out to the spare cage. She's changed a bit I think as well in these past weeks. Ginger was always very skittish. Now She chatters her teeth at Biscuit and me and my partner randomly or any noises she heard before. We sometimes walk past only and she runs away like crazy, spooked and chatters. One minute she'll let us pick her up no issue, will let being stroked, next minute she runs away like a herd of wild animals was coming her way!

I know it's a lot to ask, but please help us decide what to do. I haven't got mental strength anymore, maybe I am oversensitive and have clouded judgement now. I know all I wanted was to give them home and spoil them... Perhaps they just don't like each other.

Here are the options:

1. We keep them together and add neutered boyfriend

Cons:The risk of that is that I will not know still if bullying stopped and I will constantly worry if Biscuit isn't hurt. I will be always suspicious of Ginger . No guarantee it will work, one of them may get seriously hurt, we may end up with giving G away anyway.
Pros: we will not lose Ginger ( however this seems selfish on our account) and keep large cage which I believe is far better from their point of view.

2. We will split the cage. I actually came up with a solution and we could fit 2 2x4 L-shaped stack up cages.

Pros: we get to keep them both. Again, are we being selfish?
Cons: they lose the space; current cage is huge. Splitting it and stacking up takes away the daylight, space for them and they will be alone at the end of the day. No actual interaction with another piglet. Also, we will have two large cages to clean- some will say I'm selfish, but in fact I work full time and sometimes over my contracted hours. My partners works late often too, so at present cleaning cage is about 1hr 30 mins long, or bit more if I do it alone, weekly clean+ daily spot clean.

3. We keep Biscuit and find her neutered husband from the rescue. I will not put her through another sow bonding I don't think .
Ginger will be given out for adoption at the rescue so she can hopefully find a friendly girlfriend. I do think boar would be a safer option, she seems a real feisty character basically.

Pros:my brain tells me that this way the pigs will be happiest and benefit most. Will hopefully make good bond with their husbands and Gnger will find a happy home.
The cage we have will remain huge and will be above to Biscuit and New boy...we will not worry all days if Ginger kicked off again or not..
Cons: I will hate myself forever for giving my furry beauty away and giving up on her :(
Again, it may seem selfish to some.

Will recscue even accept our situation, they will probably think we are horrible people just giving one Away and swapping her for a boy, but I really think that 2x3 cages and effectively, the, living alone aren't good enough for them considering what they have now.

I'm sorry to be rambling on here over and over again. You all have far more experience than us. I know it's not easy to judge as you aren't here and aren't seeing it all..
:ple: Help. I know I probably seem desperate and over the top with my emotions but that is just the fact. Animals are the love of my life, they enrich our lives, if I was fortunate enough to own a house I'd have as many as I could fit . I'm 34 for crying out loud and I'm feeling helpless. At the moment these two are my lovely darlings and I just want what's best for them, I don't know what it is anymore though.

Thank you again for listening.
 
P.s. Forgot to add that Biscuits weight isn't particularly stable. She seems to lose more than gain...:(
 
I am not an expert, but it sounds like you are a very caring and responsible owner, so any decent rescue should be happy to work with you to try and find a solution.
And you should never feel bad for being honest about the time you have to spend on your pets.
If more people were honest from the start, then there would be a lot less piggies in rescue, or even worse, living in awful conditions.

Adding a boar might sort things out, but it might not, and then you have 3 piggies and a more complex situation.
I would contact a good local rescue and ask to have a chat with them.
Be honest about your situation, and as it is clear you have the very best interested of your animals and your number 1 priority, hopefully they will be able to offer advice, and help you find a solution that works well for everyone.
:hug:
 
It is really a difficult situation you are in!

Thank you for checking on the cut - it has started out a couple of times like an accidental swipe from another girl, so I wanted to make sure that we are not missing something elementary.

I would strongly recommend to speak to a good rescue and explore the various options with them. None of the options you are listing is going to make you feel totally happy, but at least you may be able to work out what is best in the interst of all piggies involved.
Would it be an option by sacrificing the hayloft to create another cage on top of the first one so you could find a new partner for either girl?
Otherwise, living alongside is possible, but rather unsatisfying as is giving up one of your girls; it is inevitably making you feel like you are betraying her even if she goes on to have a very happy life. I have got those t-shirts myself so I know how it feels to any owner who loves their piggies as much as you do!

Some piggies are just ASBO piggies. It is always very difficult and heart-breaking when a bond doesn't work out and you are very limited in your options to find a new partner for both. :(
 
Wiebke said:
It is really a difficult situation you are in!

Thank you for checking on the cut - it has started out a couple of times like an accidental swipe from another girl, so I wanted to make sure that we are not missing something elementary.

I would strongly recommend to speak to a good rescue and explore the various options with them. None is every going to make you feel totally happy.
Would it be an option by sacrificing the hayloft to create another cage on top of the first one so you could find a new partner for either girl?
Otherwise, living alongside is possible, but rather unsatisfying as is giving up one of your girls; it is inevitably making you feel like you are betraying her even if she goes on to have a very happy life. I have got those t-shirts myself so I know how it feels!

Some piggies are just ASBO piggies. It is always very difficult and heart-breaking when a bond doesn't work out and you are very limited in your options to find a new partner for both.
Click to expand...

Hi Wiebke,

I'm definitely going to keep checking on the cut, or whatever this is.
I'm now worried we are indeed making a mistake, as it does look like a swipe, well it did yesterday, now seems to have been bonding together and healing, as you said hard to see on dark hair/skin Biscuit has.

I did think about adding each a boyfriend but I think my landlord wouldn't be happy with a small herd here. I have to respect this as well, sadly these are the joys of renting. Ginger is now biting the bars and speaking loud. They've been fed so I wonder what she wants....we can't add another level on top of existing one because of how Windows are positioned. Loft gives us space to access Windows, if we have two levels full length then we won't be able to open the window etc.
 
Swissgreys said:
I am not an expert, but it sounds like you are a very caring and responsible owner, so any decent rescue should be happy to work with you to try and find a solution.
And you should never feel bad for being honest about the time you have to spend on your pets.
If more people were honest from the start, then there would be a lot less piggies in rescue, or even worse, living in awful conditions.

Adding a boar might sort things out, but it might not, and then you have 3 piggies and a more complex situation.
I would contact a good local rescue and ask to have a chat with them.
Be honest about your situation, and as it is clear you have the very best interested of your animals and your number 1 priority, hopefully they will be able to offer advice, and help you find a solution that works well for everyone.
:hug:
Click to expand...

Thank you Swissgreys:( it's crazy... I never thought they are so complex the piggies!
 
oxtinamona said:
Thank you Swissgreys:( it's crazy... I never thought they are so complex the piggies!
Click to expand...

They really can give you headaches, can't they? Not at all a "boring and easy children's pet"! :mal:
 
image.webp image.webp
Wiebke said:
I am very sorry that it is not working out. Please check that the cut under the eye is not the beginning of ringworm.
Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures

However, it may be worth looking for a neutered boar companion in a place where you can date your other sow.
Click to expand...



Hi again,

It's been bugging me so I checked Biscuits wound again, now it looks different than yesterday for sure. I put saline solution on it earlier to disinfect it just in case... the hair that was covering the wound now seems to have fallen out? Here are the pictures, what are your thoughts guys?
 
oxtinamona said:
View attachment 46011 View attachment 46010



Hi again,

It's been bugging me so I checked Biscuits wound again, now it looks different than yesterday for sure. I put saline solution on it earlier to disinfect it just in case... the hair that was covering the wound now seems to have fallen out? Here are the pictures, what are your thoughts guys?
Click to expand...

It looks like the beginnings of ringworm to me; you can clearly see the white fungal exudations around the scratch! :(

Please carefully read the tips in our ringworm guide, as it is the one single most transmissive thing that you and any other mammalian pets can catch from them (or they from you). If you can get onto it quickly, you should hopefully be over it in a week or two and can prevent a return as well as Ginger coming down with it (you will need to bathe her with a fungicidal dip as she could already be infected). It really pays to take pains over disinfection!
Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures
 
Wiebke said:
It looks like the beginnings of ringworm to me; you can clearly see the white fungal exudations around the scratch! :(

Please carefully read the tips in our ringworm guide, as it is the one single most transmissive thing that you and any other mammalian pets can catch from them (or they from you). If you can get onto it quickly, you should hopefully be over it in a week or two and can prevent a return as well as Ginger coming down with it (you will need to bathe her with a fungicidal dip as she could already be infected). It really pays to take pains over disinfection!
Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures
Click to expand...
Oh my gosh... It's just unreal... I am hair surprised how it changed since yesterday? This afternoon when I checked it few hours earlier it look different, maybe because it was wet of saline solution!? No idea could it be the reason she's losing/ or has unstable weight? Also, could she have picked it up, because she's stressed? I still feel like ginger is going her hard time even if it is not an actual bite. Should we take her to the vet?
 
I think she really does need to see a vet.
Firstly they can confirm the diagnosis, and secondly they will be able to prescribe an effective and safe treatment for her.
 
oxtinamona said:
Morning guys, we are taking her in this afternoon. I'm also taking Ginger, just in case :tu:
Click to expand...

Yes, please do! Ringworm is an opportunist that typically hits whenever the immune system is lowered. It can be stress or illness related, especially in younger guinea pigs whose immune system is not yet fully developed.
The up and down weight can be either due to bullying or an underlying issue, but it should not happen in sub-adult piggies.

If you come back with a ringworm diagnosis (the fungal area should be more noticeable today), then you will have to treat both piggies; Ginger preventatively.
 
I will. I read the whole article on ringworm for which you sent me a link to. I wanted to buy this disinfectant F10 Amazon but they don't do it on prime so will have to waits while which defeats the object. Do you know if I can get it from any stores or online shops which do next day delivery?
Also, I have seen they do a shampoo, is it what I will need to bathe Ginger in? Or will vet give me something? Sorry If these are obvious questions - I've never been to a vet with my own pet, since childhood when my parents handled it of course :nod:
 
oxtinamona said:
P.S.we have an appointment confirmed @4pm today x
Click to expand...

Tips For Vet Visits

I would still order the F10 and just practise good hygiene with a normal disinfectant and by using gloves until it arrives. Try to not scratch yourself without thinking during the next few weeks whenever you handle her. The F10 will take care of any ringworm spores, which are the main issue you want to use it - and you have got a window of about 10-14 days for applying it.

I would discuss the treatment options with your vet. There are more decent products around than the ones we have mentioned; it is just the ones we have found most effective/gentle when dealing with a case of ringworm ourselves as it is often very close to sensitive organs and needs to be applied very carefully.

You may likely end up with surolan, which is often prescribed and is also doing the job. Personally I would ask the vet whether they would consider oral treatment, as that minimises the need for handling the affected patches, especially when they are so close to the eye.
 
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