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Celery Has Bladder Stones :(

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Law Ram

Law Ram

Junior Guinea Pig
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Yesterday celery started weeing blood. I rushed her to my vets and they took her in overnight. She had xrays and it shown 3 stones in her bladder. They have put her on pain relief and antibiotics. Also given me some new food to help her out.

Now, she is 6.5 years old and i want to give her the best quality of life.

Is there anyway the stones can be treated without having surgery? I dont want to put her through that as I'm worried she won't make it
 
Law Ram said:
Yesterday celery started weeing blood. I rushed her to my vets and they took her in overnight. She had xrays and it shown 3 stones in her bladder. They have put her on pain relief and antibiotics. Also given me some new food to help her out.

Now, she is 6.5 years old and i want to give her the best quality of life.

Is there anyway the stones can be treated without having surgery? I dont want to put her through that as I'm worried she won't make it
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It is a tough one at that age! :(

Unfortunately for you, none of the at some time much touted alternatives to a bladder stone operation has borne out. It would be good if you discussed your options with your vet. When you ask them for their opinion, they are usually willing to talk you through the pros and cons, so you can come to an informed decision with them.

Do you mean you got powdered recovery food for syringe feeding?
 
It dry food. Looks very much like long straw pellets.
How long do bladder stones take to form? And whats the reason for the bleeding? Sorry these are questions i dont know
 
Law Ram said:
It dry food. Looks very much like long straw pellets.
How long do bladder stones take to form? And whats the reason for the bleeding? Sorry these are questions i dont know
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Some stones take a long time to build up while others can form within weeks; what they are made from can also vary although calcium/carbohydrate stones are the most common. The process of calcium absorption in guinea pigs is rather complicated and not yet well researched and understood. Guinea pigs have naturally alcaline urine, so that makes them more prone to developing stones, sludge and urinary tract infections as a species. Diet, hard water, not drinking very much, genetic disposition or something suddenly going wrong in the calcium absorption process can all contribute to the formation of stones.

The bleeding is either caused by bladder trauma to the bladder walls or by an infection resulting from the constant irritation of the bladder, causing the walls to thicken and become rather hard. Your vet is addressing both these issues with giving a painkiller/anti-inflammatory and an antibiotic. You can also additionally give cystease or vegetarian glucosamine (the main ingredient of cystease, which is a prescription-free cat food supplement to help protect the bladder walls).

Here are tips on how you can adjust the diet:
- Follow IC diet as listed in under "daily veg": Recommendations For A Balanced General Guinea Pig Diet
Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
- filter your water even if you are in a soft water area; there are still minerals in the water that can also build up in the stones
- switch to a limited amount of low calcium pellets, like "bunny" pellets (for guinea pigs, 5 pellets per piggy per day) or to grain-free vitakraft pellets.
- give your girl a daily session of water via syringe, as much as she will take, to help flush out the bladder. give only half a 1 ml syringe at once (i.e. a mouthful) and wait until this has gone down.

However, your vet can only mitigate the symptoms, but without an operation he cannot make the problem go away. :(
 
l seam to remember a thing caled csytice (spelling ? )
l know l have some capsuales in my piggy med chest, but l dont remember using them, so l can not comment on there efectivness ? you can get them from vio vet
 
gizzy said:
l seam to remember a thing caled csytice (spelling ? )
l know l have some capsuales in my piggy med chest, but l dont remember using them, so l can not comment on there efectivness ? you can get them from vio vet
Click to expand...

I have recommended Cystease, too.
 
Wiebke said:
I have recommended Cystease, too.
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Morning
So Celery hasnt really eaten anything over night. I am currently waiting for her to go to the toilet on her mat.
I know she has drunk as I heared her in the night but she is not intrested in food atm.
I really dont know what to do for the best here. I have given her, her painkillers.
 
Bladder stones can be very painful and can put a piggie off eating which Celery seems to be doing.
I would be taking Celery to the vet ASAP to talk about options and maybe more or stronger painkillers. What painkiller is she on now and how much?
In the meantime you need to get her to eat any way you can - tempt her with favourite veg, posh hay but also try soaking some her pellets in warm water and syringe feeding if you have a 1ml syringe or offering on a small spoon if not.
Here is a guide about hand feeding
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Lots of people on here can advise about handfeeding so shout if you need to.
If she doesn't eat, her guts will start to slow right down and you will have a very ill pig. Are you able to get to the vet today?
 
She is eating hay and she has had two drinks (currently drinking now) she also has had a little wee and a couple of poos.
She is on loxicom
We are back at vets tomorrow for more antibiotics
 
Law Ram said:
Morning
So Celery hasnt really eaten anything over night. I am currently waiting for her to go to the toilet on her mat.
I know she has drunk as I heared her in the night but she is not intrested in food atm.
I really dont know what to do for the best here. I have given her, her painkillers.
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I am very sorry, but you have to face up to a stark choice - you can either step in with syringe feeding and prolong her life, or you have to consider having to put her to sleep as the kindest thing you can do for her now to cut short any suffering.

Both antibiotics and pain are appetite killers. If she is not/hardly eating, at some point her guts are going to close down if there is not enough food processed.

It is never a happy situation to find yourself in, especially the first time round when you have to work out for yourself where you stand on this issue. But unfortunately for you, time is starting to run out quickly. Please try to speak to your vet today, if necessary over the phone. He knows the size of the stones and can give you a better prognosis than we can.

Big HUGS
 
Sorry to hear this. Do you know how big the stones are? Some female piggies have the potential to pass them if they are small, but you will need to up the fluid intake, potentially syringing her water or if you vet thinks necessary giving her sub cut fluids (under the skin). This will perhaps help flush them out if they are small enough to pass. She obviously needs to remain on a good dose of pain relief.

Hope she feels better soon.

x
 
Wiebke said:
I am very sorry, but you have to face up to a stark choice - you can either step in with syringe feeding and prolong her life, or you have to consider having to put her to sleep as the kindest thing you can do for her now to cut short any suffering.

Both antibiotics and pain are appetite killers. If she is not/hardly eating, at some point her guts are going to close down if there is not enough food processed.

It is never a happy situation to find yourself in, especially the first time round when you have to work out for yourself where you stand on this issue. But unfortunately for you, time is starting to run out quickly. Please try to speak to your vet today, if necessary over the phone. He knows the size of the stones and can give you a better prognosis than we can.

Big HUGS
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Even if she is eating hay and drinking?
 
Yep. She is fibe. Vet is pleased with her progress. She is eating her hay and veggies wise, cucumber tomato, melon some lettuce, celery leaves.
We have changed her food back for the short term.
She is drinking and evetything
No weight loss either. I do have recovery food for my home pharmacy now just in case.
Vet is very very happy with her :)
 
Panda Pig had a bladder stone in the summer. He is elderly (I don't know how old exactly, but he is at least 4 and a half, quite possibly older than that). The X-rays showed one very large stone, and our only options were PTS or surgery. I talked to the vet & the vet nurse about the procedure, and agreed to try the op. Then spent the rest of the day on tenterhooks as you can imagine.
There were so many risks but he coped really well and was home with me that same evening. They showed me the stone they removed, if you scaled it up guinea pig to human it would have been the size of a cricket ball.
The vet said I could try feeding spinach to prevent more stones forming. I'm really glad your girl is responding to the alternatives. Surgery is such a worry (and expensive...) but I just wanted to say it isn't always the end of the road. Mine at least had a happy ending.
 
Sue and Smartie said:
Panda Pig had a bladder stone in the summer. He is elderly (I don't know how old exactly, but he is at least 4 and a half, quite possibly older than that). The X-rays showed one very large stone, and our only options were PTS or surgery. I talked to the vet & the vet nurse about the procedure, and agreed to try the op. Then spent the rest of the day on tenterhooks as you can imagine.
There were so many risks but he coped really well and was home with me that same evening. They showed me the stone they removed, if you scaled it up guinea pig to human it would have been the size of a cricket ball.
The vet said I could try feeding spinach to prevent more stones forming. I'm really glad your girl is responding to the alternatives. Surgery is such a worry (and expensive...) but I just wanted to say it isn't always the end of the road. Mine at least had a happy ending.
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Do you know what the logic behind the vet suggesting spinach was? it is high in calcium.
 
In humans an alkaline urine helps stop stone formation, so do GPs that get stones have a less than normal (for piggies) alkaline urine? @Kerrie74 vet suggested giving her pig potassium citrate (also a human treatment) this ups the alkalinity. Citrus fruit and green veg particularly cabbage family are also recommended to humans for the same reason, could be the thinking behind @Sue and Smartie vet suggesting spinach?
In humans it has been found that adequate intake of calcium is important to prevent stone formation. Reduced calcium intake increases stones.
I have to stress above comes from human research, any treatment of guinea pigs should only be given on a vets advice. Would be nice though to think human medical research could help the guinea pigs for once!
An interesting research project for a vet student perhaps?
Hugs to all stone piggies and their slaves with sympathy from a human prolific stone former. XX
 
helen105281 said:
Do you know what the logic behind the vet suggesting spinach was? it is high in calcium.
Click to expand...
I'll be honest here, I was in no fit state to ask questions or wonder why anything. I was just so relieved to still have my pig, that was all I could think about. She did say why but I can't remember what it was she said.
 
piggieminder said:
In humans an alkaline urine helps stop stone formation, so do GPs that get stones have a less than normal (for piggies) alkaline urine? @Kerrie74 vet suggested giving her pig potassium citrate (also a human treatment) this ups the alkalinity. Citrus fruit and green veg particularly cabbage family are also recommended to humans for the same reason, could be the thinking behind @Sue and Smartie vet suggesting spinach?
In humans it has been found that adequate intake of calcium is important to prevent stone formation. Reduced calcium intake increases stones.
I have to stress above comes from human research, any treatment of guinea pigs should only be given on a vets advice. Would be nice though to think human medical research could help the guinea pigs for once!
An interesting research project for a vet student perhaps?
Hugs to all stone piggies and their slaves with sympathy from a human prolific stone former. XX
Click to expand...

That's interesting to know, thank you. I know someone who has done a lot of research and found the opposite (in pigs though) and put together the IC diet which does not restrict calcium as such but makes sure the levels in the diet are balanced correctly with everything else the pig needs. Sadly I am not in contact with them at the moment so can't ask any questions based on the information you have given.
 
helen105281 said:
That's interesting to know, thank you. I know someone who has done a lot of research and found the opposite (in pigs though) and put together the IC diet which does not restrict calcium as such but makes sure the levels in the diet are balanced correctly with everything else the pig needs. Sadly I am not in contact with them at the moment so can't ask any questions based on the information you have given.
Click to expand...
It's a shame you're not in contact I'm intrigued to know more.
 
@piggieminder I should have updated my post about Jericho..

He was taken to a different vet who has a lot more knowledge in regards to rodents, she said potassium citrate hadn't been proven to work on piggies, it's never been tested apparently and suggested that I stop giving it to Jericho, which we have, he is still on cystophan though although that is another one that hasn't actually been tested and proven to work.
 
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