Clash of the Boars - Failing Introductions?

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SilentStarling

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Hi there! I have owned guinea pigs all my life, but always one at a time. Now that I am older and know that guinea pigs get lonely, I decided when I got guineas again, I would get a pair. However, In my lack of knowledge of guinea bonding, I adopted two males. I am trying to get them to bond (its been about a month now), and I'm feeling a little discouraged so I wanted to lay out the situation and get some advice from some more experienced guinea handlers.

Boar 1 - Porky. I got Porky two months ago, adopted from a shelter. He was surrendered to the shelter with two other male guineas, both younger, but I didn't have the space for 3 guineas so I adopted Porky in order to leave the two little ones together. Porky is fairly laid back but was wary of human interaction, which has been slowly improving as I give him cuddles and lap snacks. He is quite a large guinea pig, and is around a year and 3 months old (the shelter didn't have an exact birthday to give me).

Boar 2 - Moby. Moby was adopted from a different shelter last month. He is 7 months old and is very friendly towards people - he loves to give kisses and snuggle into everyone he meets. However, he is very aggressive towards Porky. Despite his small size he seems determined to be the dominant one in the relationship.

When I first got Moby I kept him and Porky in separate cages, and started out with scent swapping, then floor time w/ wire separation between them, then limited together floor time, and most recently I bought them a large cage with a divider in the middle. The cage is 10 sq ft, which I'm told is a good size for two males. Ever since I put them in the cage, they spend half their time chewing and yanking on the divider, trying to get at each other. I'm still doing together floor time (and soon separated floor time, because I'm worried Porky needs some alone time), but today is the third day they have been in this cage and they're still constantly biting on the wire wall so loudly it wakes me up at night. I'm not sure how long bonding usually takes, especially with males, but I wanted to know what other people would recommend as the next steps? I worry they aren't compatable - Porky is content to lay right next to the divider and keep Moby company, but all Moby does is rumblestrut and yank on the divider. Any advice as to how to proceed? Is there hope for my boys?

NOTE: On their very first introduction, Moby managed to bite into Porky's ear before I could separate them. I got it looked at and it never got infected or posed a health risk to him, and neither of them has drawn blood on the other since then.

Attached is a picture of their new cage. I am in the process of purchasing two more of those grates to cover up the back wall on Porky (tri-color)'s side.
 

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hiya,I'm sorry introductions have been difficult.boars are best left in a bonding pen until this bond has worked or failed.it is not good to give both boys playtime together ,
then separate.it causes the piggies to start the bonding process everytime afresh.you need to see it through.ive a boar pair that do not get on,ive a 6 x2 cage with divider down the middle,with perpex,so the boars cannot keep biting the bars.
if the boars get into FLYING MASS of fur ,a definate failed bonding,please throw a towel at them to separate.it is nerve wracking.I'm hoping someone can link the guides for you.
 
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care

Behaviour, Bonding & Bereavement Guides

The top three links are the main ones for boars, the last one is the whole bonding section which you will find interesting. As Eileen says it is not a good idea to do play time with boars, it completely confuses them and means they start from scratch with dominance every time they meet. With boars you need to introduce when you have plenty of time to observe, in case they take a long time to decide if they like each other. I've had a pair where I left them in the bonding pen overnight and I slept on the sofa just in case, others have taken a couple of hours, one pair clicked instantly. One bond failed in the first 3 seconds with hackles raised and lunging. Boars are such charming but funny little things. I do hope you boys get on, good luck!
 
Alright we're about two hours into bonding, I've been reading some of the linked posts and I have some questions because some of the things my piggies are doing are a little different than described in the boar bonding segment.
1: Moby is the one rumblestrutting, and Porky is giving off high squeals which the article tells me are submissive noises. At this point they have both laid down for naps multiple times, but when they get back up they fight for a bit again. I have noticed that whenever Moby approaches Porky, Porky starts that high squealing again -half the time Moby will just leave, and half the time they have a chin-off. The squealing is submissive, but the chin-raises are a dominance battle - so whats going on?
2: Moby is the only one that has attempted mounting (not today, but he has done it once or twice to Porky in the past). But now Porky won't let Moby anywhere near his rear. Is that because he hasn't accepted his submissive role yet, or is it because of some bigger problem?
Thanks!
 
It's sounding ok for now. They are deciding who is going to be top pig, so the chin offs are part of that. When it's getting nippy, Porky is submitting. I would guess Moby will end up as the boss, but it could change.
Porky just doesn't want to be mounted, but that's fine. Warning signs that it might go wrong in my experience are constant loud chattering, going side on, and yawning. Even then they can still settle.
My boars still mount, squeak, rumble and generally bicker, and they've been living together happily for two years.
Hope it all goes well!
 
Fingers crossed it will work out well. Did you decide to leave them in the bonding area overnight?

One thing to be aware of is that Moby is in his teenage years so may be testing boundaries and vying for top pig position.

Also, if your cage is 2x4 grids I’d go a little bigger and make it 2x5. A 2x4 is the recommended minimum but with boars it’s always advisable to go a size up from that.

Good luck and hopefully they’ll wake up buddies ☺️
 
Yes, I'm going to sleep right here next to it so I can hear if something happens. Scuffles are less frequent; there's more relaxing time and I've been chucking more hay in there when they get grouchy. One thing that concerns me is that I haven't seen Moby do any of the power grooming that I read about in the articles, but I have noticed Porky is doing the side-eye angle when he chin-ups with Moby, which I read earlier is a more submissive stance. And I'll look into expanding their cage area, I'm in the process of getting a new job so I should have money for it soon. Fingers crossed🤞
 
I’ve never seen my boys grooming each other either. 🤷🏾‍♀️

Good luck and hopefully it’s a quiet night!
 
They won't necessarily exhibit all the behaviours. They all have their favourite way to show their dominance.
 
Its morning time, they woke me up a few times fighting but I never had to separate them. However they don't appear to have made any progress since last night - they most definitely are not still friends, and I have to go to work soon and I'm scared to leave them like this in case they hurt each other while I'm gone. How long is too long for an introduction? Shouldn't they have figured it out by now if they're ever going to?
 
It can take a couple of weeks for them to completely settle down to their final hierarchy, so it's still early days. The fact they haven't had a full on fight so far bodes well. Whatever you do don't separate them. If you do they'll have to start the whole thing again. Boys in particular will probably always display some dominance behaviour - it's a macho thing.
 
Yes, I overcame my fear and gave them each extra food before I left for work and kept them together. I've been picking them up to check then for any injuries twice a day. Their spats are becoming less and less frequent. I have noticed that even though Moby is the one showing dominance displays, Porky is never willing to give up his food even if Moby wants it.
 
SilentStarling said:
Yes, I overcame my fear and gave them each extra food before I left for work and kept them together. I've been picking them up to check then for any injuries twice a day. Their spats are becoming less and less frequent. I have noticed that even though Moby is the one showing dominance displays, Porky is never willing to give up his food even if Moby wants it.
Click to expand...
It's looking promising. I really hope this works out.
 
Hi there, its been a couple days where I've been keeping them together - it seemed to calm down yesturday a little bit, but today I noticed Moby has started mounting Porky. I know thats normal dominance behavior, but Moby refuses to leave Porky alone even when he is giving multiple, very clear "go away" warning signs (very loud squealing, etc). It got to the point Porky lunged at Moby and they both started clacking their teeth like mad, so I put a divider between them for 5 minutes. Why does Moby refuse to leave Porky alone? This has been going on for 45 minutes now and I can tell Moby is tired because he keeps laying down, then jumping up after 30 seconds and trying again, running away, lying down, and trying again. Why is he forgoing rest and food to go so hard at Porky? Is this a bad sign? I worry about going to sleep with them like this.
 
You have to bear in mind that among us in the midst of his teenage years. So he may regularly teeth chatter, chase, mount and hump. It can go on for minutes or even an hour. When my boys hit that stage, the dominant one (Toffee) was chasing and mounting (and humping) his cage mate (Fudge) for well over an hour. I didn’t intervene because I knew to expect it. I think the breaking point came when Fudge took a misplaced and unintended (to harm) swipe at Toffee. I came down to find Toffee had a small cut near his eye. I was on my way out to work but was reassured it wasn’t an intentional attack.

The loud squealing isn’t a go away signal, it’s a signal to say that he is submitting to Moby. And as for the humping, they will try and mount/hump from all directions including the head. Fudge has never accepted being mounted on the head, except maybe once or twice.

I would just leave them for now but keep an eye. Moby I think is just trying to assert his dominance but is being heavy handed about it. If you feel it’s getting too much (he should stop for a good while) then perhaps think about dividing them for one day then let them be together again.

Someone will be along later to give you more advise.

PS no piggy wants to give up their food, dominant or not. It’s funny because when I feed the boys, the roles are reversed. Fudge will steal from Toffee. And if he’s anywhere near him when I give them food, Toffee squeals, even if his food hasn’t been taken! 🤦🏾‍♀️ toffee is more an opportunistic thief.
 
I've never separated my boys for more than a couple of hours to let things calm down, but while they are still sorting out who is boss, I wouldn't separate in case it puts them back to the start. I would let them keep working through it. You will have times when there is more of the humping etc. but as @Siikibam says the squealing is submission. I would leave them together just now, but keep an eye on them, and if in the longer term there is a bullying situation you can rethink things.
 
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