Combination of two herds not working or more time?

alphadox

alphadox

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Hello! I am struggling to figure out if my guinea pig combinations are a failure. I'm trying to keep the long text readable. This concerns abused piggies.

I have had a pair of 4 month old sows happily for about 3 moths. Then introduced another from SPCA in need of adoption asap. I was concerned when reading about third sow could get left out.

There was brief hour of furr flying until new sow backed down. But this group has worked perfectly. The sows do everything together...eat, talking, sleep, popcorning, running through tunnels like wild, etc. The alpha sow doesn't bully, but she gets more cautious around me while the others come wheeking and be petted. Then she slowly comes around but is not interested in my touch.

Then I have this combination of year old sow and her 5 week baby. This was an unexpected occurrence, a temporary one, but that didn't play out.

I kept this pair together for around 2 months. Had quarantine and tried to get the two sows less stressed and depressed; they were HEAVILY abused emotionally and physically.

There has been alot of improvement, but I know they will always be recovering. They are inseperable though. Each of them must be together or in sight. The baby is pretty protective of mom and will scream when away...mom with bash into cage until baby is back.

These two do not attack us like with biting...but are very codependant? I have tried to figure out the best care I can provide.... I don't want the sows to also get sent to another owner, so they will stay here.

I thought about combing my herds so this pair could maybe get happier with others? But I'm worried.

They have been combined a week and everyone seems miserable. Mom sow attacked everyone to dethrone the other herd alpha. Mom literally just hisses and attacks to pull hair out randomly when they try to eat hay togther. Other sows besides baby huddle in tubes together and fluff up when they come out. There has been no popcorning or fun activity... Mom just watches them and will sometimes huddle with baby for hours. Baby doesn't whine or attack other sows. She doesn't seem interested in getting to know them. The others don't either.

My final question....have these combinations failed, or do I give them more time? I read about herds needing time and was lucky my trio of pigs fell in love within hours. I want the sows happy.

Cages are the CCcage I bought from the store.. Mom and baby were in the 2x4 like the trio.. Now everyone together in the 3x7 I made which has taken over my brothers bedroom while he's at college.
 
alphadox said:
Hello! I am struggling to figure out if my guinea pig combinations are a failure. I'm trying to keep the long text readable. This concerns abused piggies.

I have had a pair of 4 month old sows happily for about 3 moths. Then introduced another from SPCA in need of adoption asap. I was concerned when reading about third sow could get left out.

There was brief hour of furr flying until new sow backed down. But this group has worked perfectly. The sows do everything together...eat, talking, sleep, popcorning, running through tunnels like wild, etc. The alpha sow doesn't bully, but she gets more cautious around me while the others come wheeking and be petted. Then she slowly comes around but is not interested in my touch.

Then I have this combination of year old sow and her 5 week baby. This was an unexpected occurrence, a temporary one, but that didn't play out.

I kept this pair together for around 2 months. Had quarantine and tried to get the two sows less stressed and depressed; they were HEAVILY abused emotionally and physically.

There has been alot of improvement, but I know they will always be recovering. They are inseperable though. Each of them must be together or in sight. The baby is pretty protective of mom and will scream when away...mom with bash into cage until baby is back.

These two do not attack us like with biting...but are very codependant? I have tried to figure out the best care I can provide.... I don't want the sows to also get sent to another owner, so they will stay here.

I thought about combing my herds so this pair could maybe get happier with others? But I'm worried.

They have been combined a week and everyone seems miserable. Mom sow attacked everyone to dethrone the other herd alpha. Mom literally just hisses and attacks to pull hair out randomly when they try to eat hay togther. Other sows besides baby huddle in tubes together and fluff up when they come out. There has been no popcorning or fun activity... Mom just watches them and will sometimes huddle with baby for hours. Baby doesn't whine or attack other sows. She doesn't seem interested in getting to know them. The others don't either.

My final question....have these combinations failed, or do I give them more time? I read about herds needing time and was lucky my trio of pigs fell in love within hours. I want the sows happy.

Cages are the CCcage I bought from the store.. Mom and baby were in the 2x4 like the trio.. Now everyone together in the 3x7 I made which has taken over my brothers bedroom while he's at college.
Click to expand...

Hi!

Piggy bonding relies entirely on whether the piggies, especially the two top sows are getting on and whether one of them is prepared to step down. That is often not the case; especially when neither of the parties is noticeably younger and cannot challenge the existing hierarchy of the other group. You can never predict the bonding dynamics as they are personality driven. What looks great on paper may easily not work out in reality. We all have the dream of single big herd at some point or other, but it doesn't always work out. Please see any successful bonding as a bonus but always prepare for the event it doesn't come off!
Please also be aware that the dominance phase in every new bonding will last several weeks while a hierarchy and a new group is being worked out and fully established. It is a much more complex process than you think.
Please read this guide here carefully; it talks you through all the stages, aspects and some of the more common dynamics of a bonding to help you judge whether your own individual bonding is going well or not: Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics

Please also do not expect all piggies to enjoy handling etc. Guinea pigs are prey animals; even while they have been a domesticated species for thousands of years, they still have their instincts. By far not all will ever enjoy handling, cudding or will come up to you quickly. If they have had little or no friendly interaction with humans, have been badly traumatised by humans in their previous place or were born to badly stressed out mothers, then it will take a longer to very long time to work past that, and some will - while they trust you fully - never come to enjoy being a cuddly pet.
forum.co.uk/threads/understanding-prey-animal-instincts-guinea-pig-whispering-and-cuddling-tips.117031/
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig
 
Betsy said:
Have you read these guides? It may help you in deciding what to do for the best.

Boars, sows or mixed pairs; babies or adults?
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
Introducing And Re-introducing Guinea Pigs
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonds In Trouble
Click to expand...

I actually found these guides useful, especially for my initial trio-- that one could be kinda off on her own.

I guess I should clarify that because the mom and baby sow have been very abused, if they need more time to accept being in a group. Or how to help them recovet more. I'm not sure I recall specifics of abused pigs. Or perhaps this isn't taken into consideration and these guides still absolutely apply?
 
While I wouldn't say 2 of mine were 'abused', given the state of their ears and the screaming from fear they did for weeks if not months after I got them, they were clearly in quite a cramped, stressful environment. After a couple months of being here I tried bonding them into a herd of 7 and well..let's just say it didn't go well. In fact one of them almost threw my dominant sow out over the side of the pen!
A year later (a couple of weeks ago) I bonded this pair to a bereaved sow and they took to her immediately.
I guess what I'm saying Is, it might be a case of too much too soon if these pigs have been abused, and it may be worth giving them time to settle into a home where they feel safe before attempting to bond them.

I'm by no means an expert though, Weibke will be the one to listen to XD but just wanted to offer some hope that they may still be happy to accept other pigs if given time.
I hope your bonding goes well!
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

Please also be aware that the dominance phase in every new bonding will last several weeks while a hierarchy and a new group is being worked out and fully established. It is a much more complex process than you think.
Please read this guide here carefully; it talks you through all the stages, aspects and some of the more common dynamics of a bonding to help you judge whether your own individual bonding is going well or not: Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
Click to expand...

Thank you. Thsee guides have made me really concerned for this bonding like the bully, isolation, so on. But then it is still a few weeks? I can try to last until it gets to more of the hair pulling or blood. There hasn't been bloodshed as of yet. But the abused piggies and their previous living situation are my main concern...to adapt to the group or if abuse is long lasting for guinea pig mentality?
 
alphadox said:
Thank you. Thsee guides have made me really concerned for this bonding like the bully, isolation, so on. But then it is still a few weeks? I can try to last until it gets to more of the hair pulling or blood. There hasn't been bloodshed as of yet. But the abused piggies and their previous living situation are my main concern...to adapt to the group or if abuse is long lasting for guinea pig mentality?
Click to expand...

Dominance behaviour is inevitable. If you are worried about bullying and your bullied piggy not being happy in the group, please conduct a trial separation as described in this guide here; the reaction of the separated piggy will tell you whether she she is upset and wants to be back with the group or is suddenly perking up and a lot happier when away from the bully. That is the closest we can come to ask the piggy for its own honest opinion.
Bonds In Trouble
 
Eriathwen said:
While I wouldn't say 2 of mine were 'abused', given the state of their ears and the screaming from fear they did for weeks if not months after I got them, they were clearly in quite a cramped, stressful environment. After a couple months of being here I tried bonding them into a herd of 7 and well..let's just say it didn't go well. In fact one of them almost threw my dominant sow out over the side of the pen!
A year later (a couple of weeks ago) I bonded this pair to a bereaved sow and they took to her immediately.
I guess what I'm saying Is, it might be a case of too much too soon if these pigs have been abused, and it may be worth giving them time to settle into a home where they feel safe before attempting to bond them.

I'm by no means an expert though, Weibke will be the one to listen to XD but just wanted to offer some hope that they may still be happy to accept other pigs if given time.
I hope your bonding goes well!
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing! This makes me hopeful if seperation just has to happen. But lijke you say with everything happening too soon, the pigs are just so overwhelmed. I guess I'm at fault for just wanting them to be happy. I don't know what can make them happy...

But I am shook at trying to throw the dominate sow!
 
There's no fault or blame with these things, so please don't feel that way :) we can all only do what we think best and most of the time, friends should help! But some piggies haven't read the instruction manual it seems XD
 
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