Concern for a Facebook group

[Freela]

I sometimes wonder what grows out of children after they've seen their parents neglecting and abusing animals... I mean, you can be banned from keeping animals, but you can continue having children... UK's animal laws are very basic and to be prosecuted you have to do something evil, most of the time kids see it.

It's very shocking to hear that Canada is like that. I've considered it to be modern country with resources to provide for their pets. Guessing they've moved to the "consumer stage" use and replace? Very sad...

I don't think it's a lack of resources, at least not in urban areas. In rural areas, finding a vet that treats anything but dogs and cats is extremely hard. I think it's more of a societal view that dogs and cats are part of the family, but rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, etc. are starter pets for kids. Very few houses without small children have these kinds of pets. People buy animals like hamsters for their kids BECAUSE it's a short time investment. There's also a lack of knowledge... I'm in my early 40s, when I was a kid pets here really did not treat exotics. Thing have improved a lot since then... and I know that because, unlike 99% of the people here, I keep keeping small animals as pets even in adulthood. But all the parents of my generation going to a pet store and buying a hamster or guinea pig for their kid probably don't have a clue that they are even able to be treated like a dog or cat would be. I rabbit sat for my friend before the pandemic and asked for her vet info in case there was an emergency, and she said she didn't have one and even if the rabbit got sick, she didn't want to spend more than the price of the rabbit. Apparently she got the rabbit for 40 dollars... a small animal consult at an affordable vet is over 60 dollars, so she was basically telling me that if the rabbit got sick, she did not even want to pay for an assessment (luckily the rabbit was fine.) This same woman would DEFINITELY pay for vet care for her dog. In her mind, the rabbit and the dog are not on the same tier. Trust me, as an adult with older kids (mine are all teenagers), the fact that I have rodents for pets is considered really weird here! I don't even have a more traditional cat/dog pet, rodents is all I've got and believe me, people are surprised that my guinea pigs and hamsters get vet care!

 

[Freela]

It’s just a mindset that needs to change. Small pets have long been cheap pet store purchases and classroom teaching animals. I think it is changing...and seems much better now than when I was growing up. We just need to keep reinforcing that animals are not toys or disposable. It would help to have better information at pet stores and rescues about care...and more experienced vets. There are only a handful in Vancouver and it took dedicated effort to find them. I can only imagine in rural locations, it’s basically impossible to find a vet with extensive knowledge of small animal care.

Just to add, I'm in Ontario rather than BC and it's possible to find exotic pets in the cities/burbs here if you look, but in rural areas- forget about it. If it's not a dog, cat, or livestock, they won't even see it. I also think that vets here are expensive and a lot of people see it as a cost problem- if a new hamster costs 14.99 and a vet consult costs 50 dollars, plus the cost of treatment, it's way cheaper to get a new hamster after the old one dies. Most small animals come from pet stores and most owners get awful information about how to care for them- they go in not thinking that this animal will need medical care, or that there are vets who will see them, and because of that the animals never receive it. Education and attitudes are getting better but still have a way to go!

 

[Freela]

I totally agree! Also in Canada, and the myth that guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, mice etc are “children’s pets” that don’t require adult supervision and intervention is very concerning.
One of my coworkers has the two most destructive and badly behaved young kids I’ve ever seen in my life. When I rescued my first two piggies boys, he asked me if he should get guinea pigs for his kids and I was like “please please no”. They require more work, care and attention than adults here will acknowledge...and that only means suffering and possibly death for our small friends. (He ended up getting two kittens...which is probably a better plan as they actually require less daily upkeep, can entertain each other and the parents more understand the need for vet treatment and supervision of the animal care. I still “pray” for these kitties!)
Finding proper medical care and information for small pets here is not easy (nor is it cheap, and lots of parents don’t want to put $100s to medical bills for their “disposable” child’s pet).

People are SHOCKED that I pay vet money for the hamsters and guinea pigs. They think I'm crazy. I had one piggie, Sundae, who had ongoing dental/bladder issues and I paid quite a lot in vet bills over the years and people never understood. My daughter's hamster, Carmen, had dental issues in old age and had to get her teeth burred every month or two in her old age... we paid for that until she passed of old age. It was worth it, it gave them more time and a better, more comfortable life. I feel like if I'm bringing a pet into the house (or allowing the kids to bring one in), that's the commitment I'm making to them. I know that most people around me feel that way about dogs and cats, but not about anything smaller than that.

 

[Pigwhisperer]

Might be a good place to bring this up -admin, I hope this is ok to do? - if you follow Guinea Pig Zone on Facebook you'll have seen this - someone is doing a vet nurse degree, and wants to know whether people get their info about feeding, bedding, housing etc from social media, books or vets - and is doing a survey, the link is below to join in.

My tip is to sneak the Forum into one of the free-text answers eg "I use a c&c cage which I found out about on the Guinea Pig Forum which I recommend to anyone because it's a great source of reliable, tried and tested information on all things piggy"!

Guinea pig Owner's Advice Seeking Behaviour and Influences on Guinea pig Care

 

[Mother Hubbard]

I’ve done that in the past, I do my best to direct them here and get great info in a warm environment rather than a bunch of not know it all’s.

 

[Sweet Potato]

I don't think it's a lack of resources, at least not in urban areas. In rural areas, finding a vet that treats anything but dogs and cats is extremely hard. I think it's more of a societal view that dogs and cats are part of the family, but rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, etc. are starter pets for kids. Very few houses without small children have these kinds of pets. People buy animals like hamsters for their kids BECAUSE it's a short time investment. There's also a lack of knowledge... I'm in my early 40s, when I was a kid pets here really did not treat exotics. Thing have improved a lot since then... and I know that because, unlike 99% of the people here, I keep keeping small animals as pets even in adulthood. But all the parents of my generation going to a pet store and buying a hamster or guinea pig for their kid probably don't have a clue that they are even able to be treated like a dog or cat would be. I rabbit sat for my friend before the pandemic and asked for her vet info in case there was an emergency, and she said she didn't have one and even if the rabbit got sick, she didn't want to spend more than the price of the rabbit. Apparently she got the rabbit for 40 dollars... a small animal consult at an affordable vet is over 60 dollars, so she was basically telling me that if the rabbit got sick, she did not even want to pay for an assessment (luckily the rabbit was fine.) This same woman would DEFINITELY pay for vet care for her dog. In her mind, the rabbit and the dog are not on the same tier. Trust me, as an adult with older kids (mine are all teenagers), the fact that I have rodents for pets is considered really weird here! I don't even have a more traditional cat/dog pet, rodents is all I've got and believe me, people are surprised that my guinea pigs and hamsters get vet care!

My dad's family are farmers and not necessarily good farmers with the welfare or the animals at the heart of what they do. The whole family only view animals as livestock and don't understand paying for vet treatment for any animal other than a dog or horse. In one branch of the family even there cattle only see a vet to be put down often for minor things that can't be treated by home remedies. When I paid £100 for a haypoke treatment earlier this year my dad just responded "you could buy 4 for that". And the biggest family secret is that I spent £35 on a stick for my sisters turtles. Dad:"it's a stick, you find them outside, why would you pay for that" me:"oh it wasn't much it was in the sale don't worry about it"

 

[alpacasqueak]

My dad's family are farmers and not necessarily good farmers with the welfare or the animals at the heart of what they do. The whole family only view animals as livestock and don't understand paying for vet treatment for any animal other than a dog or horse. In one branch of the family even there cattle only see a vet to be put down often for minor things that can't be treated by home remedies. When I paid £100 for a haypoke treatment earlier this year my dad just responded "you could buy 4 for that". And the biggest family secret is that I spent £35 on a stick for my sisters turtles. Dad:"it's a stick, you find them outside, why would you pay for that" me:"oh it wasn't much it was in the sale don't worry about it"

I had a lot of that from idiot (fairly distant by choice) friends/family/friends of family when Pedro the chin had so much treatment. Wringing neck motions and all sorts, why am I ‘wasting’ money on a 500g animal that I could buy another of!
When I talked of getting an op done on Arnie the goldfish for her cauliflower disease (that I was told could possibly be done but would be in the thousands), I was told what a prat I was for even considering it when I could buy one for a quid!
You’re not spending money, they’re my babies, so keep your nose out I say!

 

[Hath]

It's sad to read. I mean, they have the resources and know animal needs medical treatment, but it's not a dog so not worth it? I didn't realise vets won't treat pigs. I mean, you can find a vet who knows enough to treat a haypoke but you wouldn't trust him/her to do bladder surgery on your pig (and they refer you to exotic specialist). I actually thought vets wouldn't skip the chance to take in a patient and get paid for doing so.
To be honest you get a lot of oblivious people in the UK and lockdown was proof of how much the sales of animals gone up because parents wanted kids to have something to occupy them, or adults didn't think what will happen once everyone is back at work... Furlough isn't forever, but dog is...

 

[piggieminder]

I stay well away from facebook. I did register at one time but can't even remember the password. I hate the way a lot of places/organisations can now only be contacted via facebook.
My guinea pigs are registered at a large practise where there are exotics and general vets. I have recently had an occasion where one of my pigs needed a vet and no exotics were available for 3 weeks. I felt he needed a vet asap and we would see a general one. I did see a general vet that evening as an emergency but the receptionist told me it is becoming common for general vets to refuse to see piggies and not all of theirs will.
When one of mine needed an operation that cost £5,000 lots of friends and family were amazed I took guinea pigs to the vet. One man said I should have just dropped a brick on his head! My pigs, my money, my responsibility but I no longer discuss sick guinea pigs or vets with anyone other than my partner or on the forum.

 

[Freela]

That's horrific. I've had 5 hamsters and each had as much personality and individuality as any other animal - I mean can you imagine doing that to a cat or a dog?!

I know! They are honestly great little animals, very full of

It's sad to read. I mean, they have the resources and know animal needs medical treatment, but it's not a dog so not worth it? I didn't realise vets won't treat pigs. I mean, you can find a vet who knows enough to treat a haypoke but you wouldn't trust him/her to do bladder surgery on your pig (and they refer you to exotic specialist). I actually thought vets wouldn't skip the chance to take in a patient and get paid for doing so.
To be honest you get a lot of oblivious people in the UK and lockdown was proof of how much the sales of animals gone up because parents wanted kids to have something to occupy them, or adults didn't think what will happen once everyone is back at work... Furlough isn't forever, but dog is...

Some vets will take guinea pigs even though they plainly have no idea what they're doing... other vets will at least be honest enough to say they only see dogs and cats and will refer you to an exotic vet... though that vet might be along way away if you're in the country. Honestly, I would rather they be honest and not not take my money if they can't actually help. One of my pigs died after a vet who said he had experience treating guinea pigs treated an abscessed tooth inappropriately. He probably had been trained... about 30 years ago. Changed vets following that to an exotics vet who is a half-hour further away but knows what he's doing with small animals.

 

[Tilly92]

This is the only group i visit for advice, I follow Cavy Corner on FB( that is a rescue ) and haypigs

 

[Sgboyd]

This one was Guinea Pig Advice and Support with over 90 thousand followers.

They are viscious there anyway. They hold cavies higher than humans. Berate people for falling on hard times. Mock people for not knowing everything about guinea pigs. They love telling people they have no business owning cavies over a difference of opinion.

I literally lost my home a few years back. Was homeless for a few months in the winter. Had to find a way to keep the children I grew in my belly safe and sent the pigs with my son. I was looking at sleeping in my car and was lambasted for giving up the cavies...forget the kids. I should have kept everyone in the car with me in the winter instead of traumatizing them emotionally.

Don't worry I'm fine now. Kids are fine. Piggies are fine except the one that died of cancer.

That group, however, is filled with a bunch of loons.

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Before i joined this forum.. I looked at FB. . they are lots groups etc. . Didn't take me long to realize some are openly run by morphs.. . . I have a massive problem with any form of cruelty to a animal that is "a pet" only other day i saw a dog being yanked by the lead etc. . Makes my blood boil . .
I do my best when I can to support anyone who is willing to love a pet. Piggies especially. .
I'm very happy to be asked to leave any pet shop for saying the advise they are giving new animal owners . . is perhaps not fully in the intrest of the welfare of the animal. .. . One time a local pet shop guy got a little angry with me.. . Saying " we been advising people for years"
I said badly. . Pal.. .

The standard of care for piggies on this forum is reflected by the people on it.
Dont get me wrong ive been told off more than once but we all have our opinions and the report systems Keeps in my view a great balance and the world of poop machines better.. .

 

[Engel]

Lol glad I'm not the only one who had issues with them. I got told off for feeding a leaf of romaine lettuce. Not allowed apparently as it's got no nutrition and is seen the same as iceberg. I told them that I've checked on a forum (here) as well as PDSA and RSPCA guidelines. I asked them if they were telling me that all these high welfare places are wrong and they replied with, "yes".

 

[Engel]

Ok all...tell me if I'm going a bit OTT. I've had enough of this FB group.
Someone posted this:


Now I think that it's irresponsible of them putting the boar back with the 2 sows. Apparently I'm 'judgemental' and 'why does it matter they're already pregnant!'.

Am I missing something here

 

[Siikibam]

I don't bother myself with things like that anymore. It takes too much headspace which I can't afford to waste.

 

[Engel]

I don't bother myself with things like that anymore. It takes too much headspace which I can't afford to waste.

Now they're all tagging me in comments like 'theyre already pregnant they can't get double pregnant' plus the way it's written, 'no babies yet' suggests they're due any time?

 

[Siikibam]

Well, they'll likely on learn the hard way - when one of them potentially passes away from the back-to-back pregnancies they're likely to experience. I would just leave the group. I know it's not a nice phrase and I don't really like to use it, but you can't argue with ....

 

[Engel]

Well, they'll likely on learn the hard way - when one of them potentially passes away from the back-to-back pregnancies they're likely to experience. I would just leave the group. I know it's not a nice phrase and I don't really like to use it, but you can't argue with ....

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Little Ones]

Now they're all tagging me in comments like 'theyre already pregnant they can't get double pregnant' plus the way it's written, 'no babies yet' suggests they're due any time?

They really are a nightmare. I still haven’t left the stupid things yet lol, I’m blaming it on my severe ADHD though I will leave eventually I just haven’t got round to it...
I'm trying not to get involved in debates, just trying to help out when I can and leaving forum links around. I’m also not using any of my mental energy replying to people if I don’t want to. If I’ve said my piece, I’ve decided not to keep reiterating it for people who apparently can’t read very well and if it’s going to be too much stress to engage in it then I won’t. There are some genuinely good people on there who’ve just been receiving bad advice left right and centre and I’m happy to try and help them whilst using the forum threads for references but I’ve just realised a lot of people don’t want to listen to the facts, all I can do is show it to them but I won’t fight for them to agree.
There was one girl who said her piggies love to swim and her vet even says it’s fine. This was on a post about bathing guinea pigs. I linked the bathing guide along with why guinea pigs shouldn’t swim. That girl I honestly could have punched, she just ignored everything and said her guinea pigs like it. That was one time I really lost my cool, I tried my best to be civil though

 

[Kellykels]

There's no telling some people. It's easier not to waste your breath and upset yourself. It's an exercise in keeping in mind your own mental health.
I always consider people's advice and it baffles me how people don't want to do their best to take care of their animals. Which makes me cross. So I try not to pay too much attention on focus on the animals I can help. (My own) Otherwise I would go mad.

 

[Engel]

There's no telling some people. It's easier not to waste your breath and upset yourself. It's an exercise in keeping in mind your own mental health.
I always consider people's advice and it baffles me how people don't want to do their best to take care of their animals. Which makes me cross. So I try not to pay too much attention on focus on the animals I can help. (My own) Otherwise I would go mad.

They really are a nightmare. I still haven’t left the stupid things yet lol, I’m blaming it on my severe ADHD though I will leave eventually I just haven’t got round to it...
I'm trying not to get involved in debates, just trying to help out when I can and leaving forum links around. I’m also not using any of my mental energy replying to people if I don’t want to. If I’ve said my piece, I’ve decided not to keep reiterating it for people who apparently can’t read very well and if it’s going to be too much stress to engage in it then I won’t. There are some genuinely good people on there who’ve just been receiving bad advice left right and centre and I’m happy to try and help them whilst using the forum threads for references but I’ve just realised a lot of people don’t want to listen to the facts, all I can do is show it to them but I won’t fight for them to agree.
There was one girl who said her piggies love to swim and her vet even says it’s fine. This was on a post about bathing guinea pigs. I linked the bathing guide along with why guinea pigs shouldn’t swim. That girl I honestly could have punched, she just ignored everything and said her guinea pigs like it. That was one time I really lost my cool, I tried my best to be civil though

Some people are genuinely misinformed so I leave a little comment with a link to here with extra info. This person claimed that their vet said it was ok and they should do it? Idk. As soon as everyone was being sarcastic and saying how it didn't matter, it's like 'I'm surrounded... surrounded by stupidity' makes you wonder though, are they a part of the group for the welfare of their animals or just to make themselves feel better? Who knows.

Yes I saw the post about the swimming pig...put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day...I just got up.

 

[Little Ones]

Some people are genuinely misinformed so I leave a little comment with a link to here with extra info. This person claimed that their vet said it was ok and they should do it? Idk. As soon as everyone was being sarcastic and saying how it didn't matter, it's like 'I'm surrounded... surrounded by stupidity' makes you wonder though, are they a part of the group for the welfare of their animals or just to make themselves feel better? Who knows.

Yes I saw the post about the swimming pig...put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day...I just got up.

I think part of the problem are all the misinformed vets out there too. A lot of these people are getting their bad advice from them which is equally baffling. Once the vet has told someone something then it’s like gospel to them. I think it’s only the people on this forum that understand that when it comes to piggies, vets don’t always know best. I will always go to the vet when needed for diagnoses and treatment but I trust the advice on here from Wiebke and others more than the vets most of the time. I find it’s always best to check here if you’re uncertain and need advice as you’re getting the best advice that’s out there. However, the people on these Facebook groups don’t have that knowledge so will believe whatever their misinformed vet tells them. Which then creates a cycle on these groups.

 

[Wheeksers]

This is one of the reasons why I no longer am on FB - it's turned into such a monster of misinformation, stupidity, and popularity contest that it is no longer about being connected to the ones I care about (which is why FB started to begin with). Oye, my blood is boiling just reading yalls experience.

 

[Hath]

So that's how those poorly bred pigs are made... Hope girls (and babies) will be OK.

You see, some people suffer from "illusory superiority" and are unable to realise their skills are below average (dangerous, in case of such FB groups). They'll struggle to consider other people's opinions and obviously are found in abundance, surrounded by same minds in such groups.

That's why I like to hang around here, where people are willing to learn and don't behave like they know it all. (my emojis are back!)

 

[Claire W]

And in that group, a lot of people just have one guinea pig living alone

 

[shledge]

I've seen lots of misinformation on such groups myself, many of which I either left in disgust or were banned by the admins for calling them out.

Some examples of stupidity, most of which peddled by "breeders" and admins claiming to be "experts":
- Fleece is apparently bad
- Breeding for breeding sake is apparently good
- "I've bred guinea pigs for 500 years" instantly means they're 100% correct on everything
- Baked potatoes are apparently good
- Romaine lettuce is the devil (one group even typed up a nonsense word document that basically amounts to "because reasons")
- Seeds are good
- Either hay is bad/hay only, nothing else
- Pellets of any kind are bad
- Self medicating guinea pigs with medicine that needs proper vet expertise to do without killing them
- Hatred of ANY vet, regardless if good/bad
- Curly breeds need constant hair straightening and shaves because it's ugly
- Claiming certain curly breeds (like lunks) need intense brush grooming despite being very painful, but pointless due to the nature of the breed

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

I think part of the problem are all the misinformed vets out there too. A lot of these people are getting their bad advice from them which is equally baffling. Once the vet has told someone something then it’s like gospel to them. I think it’s only the people on this forum that understand that when it comes to piggies, vets don’t always know best. I will always go to the vet when needed for diagnoses and treatment but I trust the advice on here from Wiebke and others more than the vets most of the time. I find it’s always best to check here if you’re uncertain and need advice as you’re getting the best advice that’s out there. However, the people on these Facebook groups don’t have that knowledge so will believe whatever their misinformed vet tells them. Which then creates a cycle on these groups.

While some vets have less knowledge than others a lot of the problems around people being given bad advise is down to the fact they haven't listened to the vet in the first place and just hear what they want. I used to work at vets so have witnessed this first hand. A locum vet told me one time that after explaining to a man what was wrong with his pet the man rang his wife while still in the consulting room and told her the vet had said something completely difgerent. It's like some people filter out the word "not" from a sentence like "swimming is not good for your guinea pig"

 

[Little Ones]

While some vets have less knowledge than others a lot of the problems around people being given bad advise is down to the fact they haven't listened to the vet in the first place and just hear what they want. I used to work at vets so have witnessed this first hand. A locum vet told me one time that after explaining to a man what was wrong with his pet the man rang his wife while still in the consulting room and told her the vet had said something completely difgerent. It's like some people filter out the word "not" from a sentence like "swimming is not good for your guinea pig"

Wow, it doesn’t surprise me though. I know it can be hard to retain everything the vet tells you but to completely not listen and believe things you weren’t even told? That’s a talent in itself.
It boggles my mind that people own pets without even doing their own research on them, and then use their apparently limited common sense to come to the conclusion that guinea pigs enjoy swimming (and other things).

 

[Kellykels]

Wow, it doesn’t surprise me though. I know it can be hard to retain everything the vet tells you but to completely not listen and believe things you weren’t even told? That’s a talent in itself.
It boggles my mind that people own pets without even doing their own research on them, and then use their apparently limited common sense to come to the conclusion that guinea pigs enjoy swimming (and other things).

People tend to hear what they want to hear.