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Confused, Not Eating, Losing Weight, Falling On Backleg - Help?

squeakysmallpaws

squeakysmallpaws

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello,

Barley, who is 6yrs old is very poorly but we are absolutely clueless as to what is wrong.

In summary - she is rather cold to touch, seems easily confused, isn't eating and her back leg is starting to fail.

She shows a strong interest in food, wheeks every evening but when presented with food she goes off it very quickly but continues to wheek and walk round in search food - it's quite bizarre.

She's very recently started to have issues with her right back leg. It's almost like it's not totally strong enough to support her. Again, there is nothing wrong with the leg - the vet has checked it. Also it's not every time she's walking, it's just occasionally - (but occasionally each day - this started on Monday night).

She has, of course, already been to the vets. She has metacam and baytril (in case of any underlying infection). Vet has checked her all over, lungs, heart, teeth, bladder - all appear fine.

The only next step would be a blood test/scan but she's so elderly, and has lost so much weight (she's now 867g - previously she was about 1.1kg) we (the vet and I) don't think she'd survive the anesthetic and if she did, and there was a surgical outcome - highly unlikely she'd survive that. The whole ordeal would probably be terribly stressful for her and I'd likely lose her anyway.

Unfortunately I was away last week and to look at it's not obvious that she is unwell. As soon as I came back I noticed immediately she had lost weight. Her buddy though, is absolutely fine - so I don't think anything untoward has happened during the time I was away. I think she's slowly started to become unwell during the 8 days I was away.

It's really getting to me that ultimately I don't know what's wrong with her, and therefore don't know how best to help her.

Is this anything perhaps you have dealt with before? I'm wondering if whether this is some sort of brain tumor - particularly because of the back leg. I have no knowledge of that in guinea pigs though.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have noticed that with some one mine as they get older they go a bit senile so it could be that but is best to rule out anything else before coming to that decision. Can she eat at all for herself? are you able to step in with syringe feeding?

How piggy savvy is your vet? There is a good piggy vet at the Beaumont Sainsbury hospital in Camden if you are able to get there? If not, would your vet consider a conscious xray or an ultrasound?

I just thought of E-Cuniculli too, it can cause balance and neurological issues and is treated with a wormer. Has she ever been near a rabbit?
 
helen105281 said:
I have noticed that with some one mine as they get older they go a bit senile so it could be that but is best to rule out anything else before coming to that decision. Can she eat at all for herself? are you able to step in with syringe feeding?

How piggy savvy is your vet? There is a good piggy vet at the Beaumont Sainsbury hospital in Camden if you are able to get there? If not, would your vet consider a conscious xray or an ultrasound?

I just thought of E-Cuniculli too, it can cause balance and neurological issues and is treated with a wormer. Has she ever been near a rabbit?
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Hi - no never near a rabbit. She's also been indoors for about 2 months now. I will look into this E-cuniculli - any other way that it could be spread? Perhaps by flies?

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.
 
squeakysmallpaws said:
Hi - no never near a rabbit. She's also been indoors for about 2 months now. I will look into this E-cuniculli - any other way that it could be spread? Perhaps by flies?

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.
Click to expand...

E. cuniculi spreads by direct contact. Could she have had a stroke while you were away? The cold feeling means that her blood circulation is no long er quite working. You vet may want to check for heart problems and consider whether heart drugs may help with that.
@Jaycey @helen105281 @Pound Shilling & Pig

Please keep her warm, but not hot, by offering a snugglesafe that has been heated for half the maximum time. You need to change more often. Give her an option to get off it if she is feeling too hot.
 
Does she seem to be able to control herself still? Like when she's walking? If she is struggling then that could be a sign of a stroke or neurological issue.

It is possible to get blood from an overclipped nail if the vet is willing to try it. They have to be quick to get it on a slide though as it congeals quicker for some reason.
 
It could just be her old age, I've heard stories about some piggies legs starting to fail because of it. Although, if she shows signs of pain when she is walking you should take her to the vet immediately.

For the problem with eating, keep a close eye on her weight and if she is still eating hay and pellets. If she continues to not touch her veggies she could develop scurvy from lack of vitamin C.
 
vet checked her heart - said it was fine. Plus she's not presenting like a heart pig. I've got experience of heart issues.

It's really very strange.

She does seem to be able to steady herself out on her legs. It's very mild at the moment the stumbling.

I really do suspect it's neurological - such as a pituitary tumour or it could well be a stroke. If it is a PT, I'd rather her be PTS immediately as they are the most ghastly of any illness an animal can have. I've considered whether a steroid treatment might show some relief, but of course steroids are not to be dabbled in lightly particularly when you don't know what's wrong.


It was a bit of a long shot seeing if anyone had seen anything similar before.

I mean I'm talking about a guinea pig who is presenting with something that I feel is going to mean she needs to pts in a couple of days - 'make sure she's eating because she might get scurvy' - is a bit of an eyeroll response.I know people mean well and I appreciate anyone giving legitimate input, but I'm really looking for something tangible to go to a vet and say - what about this?

I can't see her bouncing back from this unless we uncover what's up. And I can't uncover what's up with her, without her undergoing an anesthetic which will probably kill her.

All in all a pretty miserable position to be in.
 
p/s her palative care is well taken care of - I don't need advice on that. I'm doing all the right things to keep her comfortable. I'm looking for genuine diseases that I can research and see if I can match symptoms to her enough to call the vet and say - have you thought about X

heart is a really good shout - but it's been checked and ruled out
teeth would another obvious one - but it's been checked
bladder, stomach - no obvious fullness, bloated or distension
limbs - in tact, full rotational mobility

I'm treating an infection (just incase, although I know she hasn't got one - but at this point with probably days to go - it can't hurt)



Worms I did think could be something - but I can't marry up enough of the symptoms. She's not displaying other symptoms that would appear to go with this E.C add to that, she hasn't been outside, or near a rabbit and her buddy is fine - and unfortunately I think it's in the rule it out bin.

I did wonder about ovaries, but again no swelling anywhere.

i don't understand why she's wheeking for her dinner, coming running over for it and then smelling it and not taking a bite but continuing to wheek and search for food - that doesn't make sense to me, unless it was something related to the brain.

I just don't know. It's awful when it's like this. So stressed with it.
 
@squeakysmallpaws I lost my Anselmo to a neurological issue in January but it wasn't quite the same as your girl.

He was completely fine then developed a small head shake when sniffing for food. Like he couldn't work out where it was. He could coordinate his legs fine.

Then it progressed to his back legs not working.

He then went off his food. He looked at it but didn't want it.

The only thing the vet could think of trying was a combination of Zithromax (in case it was an infection) and Panacur (in case it was worm/fungal).

I think we left it too late though so I made the decision to have him PTS a couple of days later. He wasn't the same pig and I didn't want him to suffer.

My boy hadn't been anywhere near a rabbit either but it was all we could think of trying.

It really sounds like you're doing your best in a very difficult position. I completely understand what you're going through. It's so much easier when the problem is diagnosed and you can treat it. I hope you find something that works.

My vet said that the panacur wouldn't harm so it might be worth a try.
 
She's doing this also. Very similar to how you describe. The food is right there. She hears the bag rustle and she's running around for the food (albeit slowly because she is old) and when it's right in front she sniffs but continues to search and wheek for it.

I used to keep rats (I had 13!) and they were more prone to neurological issues. Had 3 who died that death and it's just the worse. There's nothing you can do to help, no hope, they just have to be pts.
 
Barley ate for herself for the first time in 3 days. She ate a handful of spinach with gusto.

Oh man I hope she's turned a corner.

Currently she's on critical care fine grind
0.2ml metacam x 2 per day
0.35ml baytril x 2 per day
0.13ml emeprid x 3 per day
0.28ml zantac x 3 per day
And warm water syringed as much as she will take before she's had enough.

Anyway after her feed just now - I brought out the spinach just incase and she really went for it. Still not interested in hay tho so far.

Oh I really hope this is the start of good news.
 
I'm afraid it's not good news. Barley took a turn for the worse and has gone downhill very quickly over the last 24hrs. Which is heartbreaking as she seemed to be improving.

I was at the vets at 2.30pm today. Barley is currently there. In one last bid, and as she's not really moving, they are going to do an awake x-ray.

If they find something obvious and treatable - for example a kidney stone they will do an emergency operation.

If the x-ray does not show something like that, she will be pts later today.

I'm sat waiting for the phone call from the vets.

Barley's buddy Eve is with her. Eve hasn't left her side over the last 24hrs. She's laid with her to keep her warm, washed her etc. So I have some comfort that Barley isn't on her own. Eve being with her will give her more comfort than I ever could. They are so close I really can't bare the idea of bringing Eve home this evening on her own.

It's awful.
 
They've found a blockage in her gut. She's undergoing emergency surgery tonight. It was either that or she was put to sleep tonight.

Vet has warned she's not likely to pull through but they have her on fluids and doing everything they can to build her up to make it through.

I don't know if this is a right or wrong decision, maybe it's kinder to let her go peacefully but if she slips away under anesthesia for her she won't feel the difference.

I'm just finding it very difficult to let go.
 
squeakysmallpaws said:
They've found a blockage in her gut. She's undergoing emergency surgery tonight. It was either that or she was put to sleep tonight.

Vet has warned she's not likely to pull through but they have her on fluids and doing everything they can to build her up to make it through.

I don't know if this is a right or wrong decision, maybe it's kinder to let her go peacefully but if she slips away under anesthesia for her she won't feel the difference.

I'm just finding it very difficult to let go.
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I think you've made the right decision going for the surgery, if the worst does happen then at least you know you've done all you could.Hugs to you at this worrying time xx
 
A blockage won't fix itself so the only way to give her a chance is surgery. And if it's not going well you can always give the vet the option to let her go whilst she is asleep.

I'm so sorry to hear that she's not doing well, I have my fingers crossed for her.

I hope you're okay. Try not to worry too much.
 
squeakysmallpaws said:
Barley ate for herself for the first time in 3 days. She ate a handful of spinach with gusto.

Oh man I hope she's turned a corner.

Currently she's on critical care fine grind
0.2ml metacam x 2 per day
0.35ml baytril x 2 per day
0.13ml emeprid x 3 per day
0.28ml zantac x 3 per day
And warm water syringed as much as she will take before she's had enough.

Anyway after her feed just now - I brought out the spinach just incase and she really went for it. Still not interested in hay tho so far.

Oh I really hope this is the start of good news.
Click to expand...

That's a lot of med,s ,

Antibiotic Toxicity in Guinea Pigs
SYMPTOMS
Depending on the type of antibiotic, typicaly adverse reactions seen in guinea pigs include diarrhea, loss of appetite, dehydration, and/or a dangerous drop in body temperature. If the antibiotic treatment continues, the reaction may worsen and result in the guinea pig's death in less than a week. It is also important to note that even guinea pigs that do not show symptoms of antibiotic toxicity may die suddenly.
 
She passed away after the anesthetic was administer. It's incredibly sad. Thank you for your kind words of support.

Gizzy - sorry you feel it's a lot of meds and my guinea pig died of antibiotic toxicity. Let me explain to you what antibiotic toxicity means and why that's not the case with Barley and why her prescribed medication was correct.

Baytril is the antibiotic (very well tolerated by and large)
Metacam pain relief.
Zantac and emeprid are gut stimulants as she had gone into gut statis. They work on different parts of the stomach hence why two is required.

She was poorly before the antibiotics. As I said in my post, upon x-ray they found a blockage. The blockage caused her death not the medication she received.

Antibiotic toxicity is caused when an antibiotic such as pencilian (or related ab) is administered, which is poisonous to guinea pigs (toxic = posionous) baytril isn't posionous to guinea pigs as a species, same as pencilian isn't posionous to the human species, of course there are always some exceptions but they are rare. By and large humans have had decades of success with penicillin in the same manner that small animals have had success with baytril. It's not the optimum antibiotic (in my view) but it's broad spectrum and a well tolerated all rounder, which is why I agreed with my vets choice to use this one.

Abs can destroy their gut flora in some cases which can lead to diarrhea to which a pre/probiotic might be useful (this is true in humans also). There are cases of allergic reactions but she didn't have an allergic reaction.

Barley didn't have diarrhea, that was not one of her symptoms.

The vets gave her the right medication without a doubt. At the time, she was still too wriggly to have an awake x-ray but too poorly the risk of dying under anesthesia was high. Symptomatic treatment was preferred. As she worsened and it became apparent she was likely to die and wasn't as active - an awake x-ray was possible, which told us she had a blockage in her gut. Unfortunately as we feared she was too poorly to withstand the anesthesia.

Something blocked her gut and she went down incredibly quickly. Had I not been on holiday perhaps the outcome would have been different, but we won't ever really know.

It's a real blow and my focus now is on making sure our remaining girl
 
Posted too fast*

Our remaining girl is ok.

Thanks again for the support. We're gutted.

I hope though Barleys death and symptoms listed here may help another owner diagnose a similar problem in their guinea pig faster than we were able to.xx
 
I'm so sorry. It wasn't the news I was hoping for. I hope you and your remaining girl are okay.

At least she left when she was asleep, in no pain. RIP Barley x
 
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