Constant bladder issues with multiple piggies, so frustrated please help?

[Dilly's Piggies]

Today I had to put my 4.5 year old sow Aspen to sleep because she had a kidney stone, which we all know there is no treatment for unlike bladder stones, I am absolutely heart broken and at the end of my tether officially with my 8 (now 7) guinea pigs constantly having bladder issues, whether it's a UTI or stones, someone always has something going on and I am fed up because I'm trying my absolute best. Almost all of them have had a UTI at some point, 1 has interstitial cystitis, 3 of them have sludge, one had a 1.5cm long bladder stone successfully removed and of course Aspen who had a kidney stone. When one gets sorted out another comes up with the same issue, I really don't understand why this keeps happening.

The main thing you'd look at is diet, but my guinea pigs are fed the diet recommended everywhere and also on this forum, low calcium. To be specific on a daily basis they get unlimited oxbow timothy hay, 1/8th cup of oxbow adult guinea pig pellets each, and 1 cup of vegetables each which include cucumber, celery, bell pepper and green beans, extremely basic. They are never fed fruit, herbs or leafy greens. They do not go out onto the grass, they do not get any supplements and are never fed treats of any kind. Their drinking water is Brita filtered.

This recommended diet clearly isn't working for my guinea pigs and I have no idea why... Please can somebody help me figure out what I'm doing wrong or what I can try differently? I don't want to lose any more of my babies to bladder issues...

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Hi, sorry you are having these issues. Over the years I have had piggies with bladder issus/stones from time to time and have found the most effective diet is stop feeding pellets altogether or to feed pellets that are grain and soya free limited to once or twice a week. I don't worry too much about the calcium content of veggies and feed a wide variety including leafy greens and brassicas personally I feel the issue is more to do with the pellets. I avoid veggies high in oxalate tho as it is a bladder irritant and interferes with calcium absorption. I feed fresh grass when ever available as it is what they have evolved to eat and my aim is for my piggies' diet to be as natural as possible. I have a lot of piggies and find bladder issues crop up very rarely. I hope this is of some help.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’d try reducing the pellets down. Pellets contain more calcium than the veg in a lot of cases
To a quick online calculation 1/8th of a cup equates to two tablespoons but the recommended pellet amount is 1 tablespoon per pig.... (I don’t really use cup measures, so do correct me if that calculation is wrong). I give my boys just 6g of grain free pellets (which is what one tablespoon of those pellets weighs out to). I knew I was giving a tablespoon between the two of them rather than a tablespoon each but weighing it out and seeing just how little it actually weighed was interesting. Perhaps try doing it yourself to help to gauge it

Grass would be be the best thing for them to be eating so perhaps try adding it into their diet.
TEAS feed a very wet diet (lots of leafy veg) to their piggies to help keep the bladder flushed through. There is a thread on here about it which makes for an interesting read.

I’m sorry you lost Aspen

 

[Hannah_xx]

Hi there, I’m so sorry about the ongoing troubles you are having and I’m so sorry to hear Aspen has gone to sleep
We do recommend a more wet diet can really help with bladder issues. Leafy salad and grass is really beneficial to their diet especially when fed everyday. Herbs are great too they only need a sprinkling of pellets the rest is unlimited hay (which sounds like you’re giving plenty of) veggies salad and grass.

 

[Bill & Ted]

So sorry that you have lost Aspen, you are having a really rough time of it, sending hugs. I’ve never had stones or UTI (touch wood) dentals ones, yes. I would try changing the piggies diet to one with grass like furry friends TEAS, it’s wetter and leafier than yours. Mine spend a lot of time in their run and eat lots of grass and forage from hedgerows and love it. I’ve almost done away with pellets, my vet says most pellets are just milled versions of muesli so they probably get about a couple of handfuls in total a week. I’m a big believer in lawn time and grass too. I like to go foraging on my daily exercise, there’s some fantastic grasses and wild plants that are fresh and healthy atm so I give them those mainly, I think they are better than veggies

 

[Wiebke]

Today I had to put my 4.5 year old sow Aspen to sleep because she had a kidney stone, which we all know there is no treatment for unlike bladder stones, I am absolutely heart broken and at the end of my tether officially with my 8 (now 7) guinea pigs constantly having bladder issues, whether it's a UTI or stones, someone always has something going on and I am fed up because I'm trying my absolute best. Almost all of them have had a UTI at some point, 1 has interstitial cystitis, 3 of them have sludge, one had a 1.5cm long bladder stone successfully removed and of course Aspen who had a kidney stone. When one gets sorted out another comes up with the same issue, I really don't understand why this keeps happening.

The main thing you'd look at is diet, but my guinea pigs are fed the diet recommended everywhere and also on this forum, low calcium. To be specific on a daily basis they get unlimited oxbow timothy hay, 1/8th cup of oxbow adult guinea pig pellets each, and 1 cup of vegetables each which include cucumber, celery, bell pepper and green beans, extremely basic. They are never fed fruit, herbs or leafy greens. They do not go out onto the grass, they do not get any supplements and are never fed treats of any kind. Their drinking water is Brita filtered.

This recommended diet clearly isn't working for my guinea pigs and I have no idea why... Please can somebody help me figure out what I'm doing wrong or what I can try differently? I don't want to lose any more of my babies to bladder issues...

Hi!

I am so sorry for your loss!

How much are you feeding in terms of pellets? Even the low calciums one contain more calcium than the highest calcium veg, kale.
I would recommend to reduce or drop pellets altogether but as feeding no calcium at is as detrimental in the long term as a feeding a diet too high or a diet where the calcium:phosphor ratio is not right for your location you can't just cut out any calcium.

Filtering water works in many cases but in some places/with some piggies you may want to consider switching to buying low calcium water bottles if problems persist.

The main calcium in a diet is coming from (hard) water and pellets, not from veg. As more insights and experiences are coming in, so do our knowledge and recommendations change. What we cannot provide is a diet that works perfectly for all locations as the water quality, pellet brand etc. varies so widely. Our recommendations do work in most places but sadly not everywhere.

The latest emphasis seems to be on feeding more high fluid/lower nutrional value veg and leaves like cucumber, celery, romaine/cos or gem lettuce in combination with some herbs and some leaves with a higher calcium and nutrient content in order to emphasise plenty of urination and flushing out calcium/bacteria from the bladder to minimise a built up. In the warmer months, plenty of fresh grass (once your piggies are used to it) is recommended as that is their natural food. Incidentally, grass is also high in vitamin C, which is why guinea pigs have never had the need to make their own in the first place.

I hope that you can fiddle the diet so that it finally works for you. It may take a few months for results to come through fully as any excess calcium has be gradually worked out, which is not an instant process.

 

[VickiA]

I’m so sorry you are having such a tough time and have had to say goodbye to Aspen. Loads of helpful advice above. I think it’s just working out what works best for you and your piggies.

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry you are having these problems and that you have lost Aspen. I have had the same problem with my piggies and have tried everything to reduce the chance of stones. I've lost 2 to kidney stones, one 4 months after a bladder stone op. I've 1 with IC and had 1 with sludge. In January I had my 2nd piggie with a bladder stone. My vet (exotic) has advised lots of leafy green veg and grass at least 2 handfuls per pig twice a day. Mine have lawn time when ever the weather permits so they can pick their own grass. She is not happy with a no pellet diet as she thinks the vitamins and mineral content is too difficult to get right with veg alone, we have agreed a teaspoon per pig per day of pellets at the moment to see how we go, she recommends Burgess Mint. I feed those and SS grain free. They also have unlimited meadow and timothy hay. So far so good (I almost don't want to say that!) Rusty is doing okay although I would like him to drink more to keep the bladder flushed. I also double filter their water as ours is extremely hard. I've been through and through everything I do with several vets and been told there's nothing wrong with what I do and feed and a lot of these problems are coming from poor breeding and bad genes. It's really hard to know what to think. Sending you my very best wishes.

 

[Dilly's Piggies]

Thank you so much everyone for the kind words about Aspen and the extremely helpful advice, some seriously great suggestions here...

I will cut down their pellets to 1 tablespoon twice per week to begin with and then eliminate them completely... I will also up their vegetables and start feeding the wet diet, is any kind of lettuce okay? I will start giving them grass daily too, is 1 generous handful per pig per day good and can they have dandelions also?

The one thing I've noticed and struggled with is that my piggies are not big drinkers, is there a way to get them to drink more water from the bottle? I'm going to try putting a water bowl in there too. Another thing is that most of my piggies are related in some way so that might be a reason too, I'm not sure...

I really hope this new plan works, thank you again everyone and I'll keep you updated on whether this helps...

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

So sorry you lost your little lady. I feed the piggies at TEAS, somewhat different to how many people feed and I've never had a piggy with a bladder issue.

Check out the thread here Feeding the guinea pigs at TEAS