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"Cow pat" -type poo

Maddykins

Maddykins

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello, I have an elderly boar, he is probably coming up to around 6 now (he's a rescue and they weren't 100% sure about his age). Over the last few months probably on about 2 or 3 occasions he has had very soft, smelly, "cow pat"-like poo for a day or so, I've followed the advice not to give him any fresh fruit/veg until it's gone back to normal and then it always has done within about a day and then put him back on his much-loved veg.

However this time it's probably been around 2 days with no real improvement - it seemed to get a little better this afternoon, they were starting to look a bit more formed but now gone back to squashy "cow pat"-type again. He hasn't had any fresh veg since...I think yesterday morning as that was before I realised that his poo was like that, and I mostly noticed because I noticed it was odd that he only ate a tiny bit of the veg too when normally he gobbles it all down. He is his usual self behaviour-wise, he was just running about doing zoomies as I was typing the last sentence! And is eating hay, and gobbling up his pellets, and drinking fine. Have not weighed him yet but should do that too I guess.

Anyway, should I take him to the vets now? I think there is a drop-in tomorrow I could take him to, failing that it would be Monday probably. I'm not sure whether to take him when he seems otherwise fine and it's not actual diarrhea, if you see what I mean. I am wondering though if there is something underlying and chronic that is causing him to have regular bouts of this now that he's old as he didn't when he was younger?
 
Aww poor old man. I don't know what it could be, hopefully someone will answer soon. I would try and offer him brown cardboard like toilet roll tubes as sometimes that helps when they eat it it gives extra roughage. It's worked for me previously as I had a boar with recurrent soft poops however never cowpats.
 
I work on the premise that if I'm at all concerned it's straight to the vet.
 
Did you take your boar to the vet in the end?
I hope his poops are getting better, if not you could try giving him Fibreplex. That's meant to stabilise the guts when they have been upset by bugs/antibiotics/problem foods. Your vets would probably sell it.
 
Hi, sorry I've been awol but I have updates now as it's ongoing and would be grateful for any advice.

baleofhay said:
Is your boy messy underside and requires extra cleaning? Hope you get to the bottom of it
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Yes, it's gross, he could really do with a bath but we are so time-poor at the moment (we have a 'high needs' 9 month old!). He is getting irregular baby wiping at the moment. His paws are awful with it too, and the cage in general is just gross a lot quicker. He lives in our living room and the smell sometimes is pretty bad, I feel embarrassed when we get visitors now!

Qualcast&Flymo said:
Did you take your boar to the vet in the end?
I hope his poops are getting better, if not you could try giving him Fibreplex. That's meant to stabilise the guts when they have been upset by bugs/antibiotics/problem foods. Your vets would probably sell it.
Click to expand...

Yep, so that's my update - we took him to the vets a few weeks ago, he had some weight loss (but his weight fluctuates a lot), the vet said to get rid of the most watery veg from his diet e.g. lettuce, bell peppers, celery etc and try to mostly keep veg to be dark leafy greens. We have been trying that but it didn't seem to make much difference unless I drastically reduce the veg to hardly any at all, or none at all, which I always feel awful doing. She also prescribed Fibreplex but it made no measurable difference. The last few days he has had very very little veg and the poo has firmed up over the last few days but I feel bad not giving him hardly any veg when he enjoys it so much and te soft poo doesn' seem to bother him. He does sometimes now seem to have pain passing very loud wind or sometimes passing stools, he hunches and squeaks sometimes. Not every time but sometimes.

So he went back to he vet this morning, he has gained some weight and now is in his normal weight-range which is good. She told us to take 3 days worth of stool samples so they have been sent off to check for infection. I asked about pain relief although he doesn't seem to be in pain like 90% of the time so she didn't want to give any as she said the usual pain relief would probably make the gastro issues worse and te only other option would be opiods which she thinks is overkill and would probably knock him out a bit which I agree sounds like too heavy-handed. She said if there is an infection we can treat that, if not then she is thinking it is probably cancer, or kidney failure, or both. She said getting a urine sample would be good and we could check that but I have no clue how I'd go about doing that and she didn't either, she tried to get him to do a wee there but he didn't as he'd done one in the carrier waiting. She said with cats they use non-absorbent litter but she didn't know if that would be safe for him especially in case he ate it. I said I'd ask on here and see if anyone has done one before and has any ideas?

I asked about cancer and she said she could refer us to an exotics specialist and/or she could probably get a sonographer in to do an ultrasound of his stomach but she said she had no experience of treating cancer in a guinea pig although she could get advice from an exotics specialist about it, if the stool and/or urine samples come back clear. But obviously he is about 6 so I imagine even if he had cancer, it wouldn't be something we'd be wise in trying to treat at this advanced age, surely?

He seems happy generally, he's eating fine, he was running about doing zoomies this morning (although he does that and popcorns infrequently now but he is old and spends more time sleeping!), he wheeks for his food etc so I'm satisfied on the whole he currently has a good quality of life.

Any thoughts?
 
If you noticed an improvement when withholding veggies personally I would take him off them completely and only give them back once his poops have been normal for a few days. When you do introduce them again, start off slowly, one veg at a time in smaller amounts. When I had my special needs piggy she once had soft poops for so long it took 2 weeks of no veg to firm them back up! Soft poops can lead to dehydration which can be fatal in small pets so is more harmful that no veggies for a little while, sometimes we've got to be cruel to be kind..no matter how much the little monkeys beg!
I usually give piggies a separate water bottle with bio lapis in when they've got soft poops, there's probiotics in there and it tastes nice which encourages them to drink more helping ward off dehydration.
I hope he's feeling better soon, soft poops can be an absolute nightmare.
 
I would persevere with the Fibreplex, how long did you give it for? To compensate for the lack of veg you could try some posh hay, like timothy, orchard grass or at hay if you don't feed them already. It sounds like you have your answer though if things have firmed up now the veg has stopped. You could eventually try phasing it back in, one type of veg at a time.
 
I agree with @helen105281. Fibreflex is really good stuff @Maddykins and it can be used repeatedly if need be.

As he's getting older, has he been checked for arthritis? I've had boars in the past that have had impaction issues when they got older that can be linked to some cases of arthritis. If their muscles are failing then they aren't always able to expel their poops and they get clogged up inside
 
I'm not sure that it's not just a coincidence though as awhile ago I stopped veg for awhile and it didn't make any difference. Also I feel that if the soft poo isn't bothering him, even if it is just veg causing it, would it be right to withdraw it? As it doesn't seem to bother him so what would be the benefit to him in stopping him eating the food he likes, if you see what I mean? I mean it's not nice for us cleaning it and him and the smell etc! But it doesn't seem to bother him. I've not seen any link between the firmness of his poo and the times he seems to be in pain passing them or passing wind if you see what I mean either, so they can be firmer but he can have pain and other times they are like a paste and he has no pain, they don't seem 100% correlated.

Fibreplex I can't remember exactly how long he had it for but he had one whole tube he was having a bit twice a day I will have to check the exact amounts, my husband took him to the vet that time and was administering his Fibreplex. Initially the vet said it's meant to be more of a one-off thing rather than an indefinite one but this time (maybe a different vet? not sure) they have prescribed another tube of it.

He has had timothy hay for the last few months now (used to just give meadow hay before). Has not affected his stools.

I could try phasing in the veg but to be honest in the early months when it was on and off I tried keeping a track of the veg and I couldn't see any links to what he was eating and the firmness of his poo so gave up with that.

Don't think he's been checked for athritis at least vet didn't mention it to me and my husband hasn't mentioned that last time they mentioned it either. How would he be checked for it? But surely it's not impaction of the stool is soft or does that happen? I don't think the vet has checked his anal sac at all either actually, should we check that? We haven't cleaned it or checked it in a very long time, I feel bad as being honest the care and attention he gets now is probably still far superior to most guinea pig pets (not people on this forum, obviously, but just in general, if you see what I mean), but it's definitely not as good as it was pre-baby!

He's definitely not dehydrated, that's another one of his symptoms is that he drinks TONS but he's been doing that for nearly a year now just gradually increasing the amount. He probably drinks around 250ml a day now or thereabouts! Spoke to the vet about this months and months ago when I took him about that as was concerned and she said could be diabetes but more likely to be age-related kidney failure but nothing can be done about either, I think I have an old thread on here about that.

Will have a gander at the thread about collecting a urine sample and see if we can sort one of the vet.

Thanks everyone it is invaluable to speak to people who are so well-versed on this stuff, I don't know anyone who has guinea pigs and our previous vet was an exotics specialist but has taken a career break unfortnately too.
 
I think the issue with the soft veg is that it will be affecting him, maybe not immediately but certainly the longer it goes on the more likely he is to suffer the effects of dehydration and then could also end up with impaction too.

It sounds like your vet is very helpful but this may now be falling outside of their expertise levels. I would consider asking for a referral to a specialist or to one of the piggy vets listed on our vet locator. Your vet should be able to send over the history so far for the specialist to look at. I know when my late Bumble had quite marked arthritis in her spine she had an x-ray with my normal vet (good piggy vets but not specialist) nothing was picked up and then when the local specialist did an x-ray he said it was very marked and obvious. I think my vets had been looking for an issue in her womb or bladder causing the symptoms so sometimes it really is worth that referral
 
So just to update - his poo just seemed to magically firm up out of the blue. He has been having veg of all kinds for the last few days, a little less than than I used to give him, and his poo is completely normal and firm again! I have no idea why or what fixed it. He is still on the Fibreplex, that could possibly be helping but then he was on it for a bit a few weeks ago and it didn't seem to help then at all, so I'm thinking it might be coincidence.

The stool samples came back negative for everything. The vet spoke to the exotics specialist in a nearby town that they refer on to for advice who advised that their next steps would be a range of diagnostic tests for cancer which would include a general anaesthetic and this would cost around £3-400 and if he had cancer they could potentially offer chemo. We said we're not sure that would be a good idea at his age? The vet agreed that she wouldn't advise to go down that route but it was a possibility if we wanted to take him to see the specialist. I am also really thinking that it isn't cancer if his poo has suddenly firmed up out of the blue, surely if it was cancer it wouldn't get better, or is that not how it works? Also what are everyone's thoughts on the testing/chemo etc, I think if he was young I would want the tests and go at it all guns blazing but given he is elderly and the risks of a general anaesthetic on its own are obviously high now at his age, I mean imagine if we put him to sleep to test for cancer and he never woke up! I would think chemo would be really awful for a guinea pig and maybe not survivable anyway at his age? Plus symptoms wise it seems he probably has kidney disease too so even if he had cancer and we treated it, we can't treat the kidney problem. I mean everyone has to die at some point, you know? Please understand this isn't about the money AT ALL, I would pay for him in a heartbeat it's just about what's ethical for him and his quality of life etc. What do people think?
 
I have not always taken “every” option available, particular for elder piggies. You’re not less caring if you don’t want to put an elder piggie through that sort of testing given the risks. Having said that, do what you’re comfortably with so you have no regrets, so you need to stand firm in whatever decision you make that it’s the best for the piggie. Invasive GA testing is not always best.

What I’m saying is, do what you think is best, and it will indeed be best.

Ps I haven’t read this entire thread, so a small caveat.
 
Elthysia said:
I have not always taken “every” option available, particular for elder piggies. You’re not less caring if you don’t want to put an elder piggie through that sort of testing given the risks. Having said that, do what you’re comfortably with so you have no regrets, so you need to stand firm in whatever decision you make that it’s the best for the piggie. Invasive GA testing is not always best.

What I’m saying is, do what you think is best, and it will indeed be best.

Ps I haven’t read this entire thread, so a small caveat.
Click to expand...

:agr:
 
Maddykins said:
Hello, I have an elderly boar, he is probably coming up to around 6 now (he's a rescue and they weren't 100% sure about his age). Over the last few months probably on about 2 or 3 occasions he has had very soft, smelly, "cow pat"-like poo for a day or so, I've followed the advice not to give him any fresh fruit/veg until it's gone back to normal and then it always has done within about a day and then put him back on his much-loved veg.

However this time it's probably been around 2 days with no real improvement - it seemed to get a little better this afternoon, they were starting to look a bit more formed but now gone back to squashy "cow pat"-type again. He hasn't had any fresh veg since...I think yesterday morning as that was before I realised that his poo was like that, and I mostly noticed because I noticed it was odd that he only ate a tiny bit of the veg too when normally he gobbles it all down. He is his usual self behaviour-wise, he was just running about doing zoomies as I was typing the last sentence! And is eating hay, and gobbling up his pellets, and drinking fine. Have not weighed him yet but should do that too I guess.

Anyway, should I take him to the vets now? I think there is a drop-in tomorrow I could take him to, failing that it would be Monday probably. I'm not sure whether to take him when he seems otherwise fine and it's not actual diarrhea, if you see what I mean. I am wondering though if there is something underlying and chronic that is causing him to have regular bouts of this now that he's old as he didn't when he was younger?
Click to expand...
Does cow pat type poo actually look like cowpat, like diarrhea consistency?
 
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