Crying when urinating

[Raymond92]

My 8 month old piggie Raymond has been crying everytime he urinates. We called the vet and they suggested trying him on some metacam incase it was an inflammation. It didn't work and he was still crying so was put on a course of antibiotics. 4 days into the antibiotics he was much better, no longer crying and acting like himself.
2 days after his course of antibiotics have finished he has started crying again each time hes urinating and he seems to be doing lots of small wees. Has anyone else had this before? Is there something I could be doing wrong?

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry your boy isn’t well. You should book him in for the vet to check him again.

 

[Claire W]

I’m sorry that your boy isn’t well. It could be that he needs a longer course of the antibiotics. I suggest another vet check

 

[Hath]

Definitely another vet check. My vet prefers to do urine sample before and after ATBs to ensure the course was sufficient. But it could also be other issues, so once they rule the UTI they can focus on more tests. Good luck and hope he recovers x

 

[Wiebke]

My 8 month old piggie Raymond has been crying everytime he urinates. We called the vet and they suggested trying him on some metacam incase it was an inflammation. It didn't work and he was still crying so was put on a course of antibiotics. 4 days into the antibiotics he was much better, no longer crying and acting like himself.
2 days after his course of antibiotics have finished he has started crying again each time hes urinating and he seems to be doing lots of small wees. Has anyone else had this before? Is there something I could be doing wrong?

Hi and welcome

How piggy savvy is your vet and how long has your piggy been on antibiotics? Just one week pf baytril or sulfatrim is very often not enough.
Has your boy been checked for potential bladder stones or sludge or a sperm rod in his penis shaft?

Symptoms for any urinary tract present very similarly so it is very much an elimination process from the easiest to treat to the very difficult to diagnose.
Only if a bacterial urinary tract infection (UTI), a bacterial cystitis and any stone/sludge issues have been excluded, can your vet - by default more than anything else - diagnose a sterile interstitial cystitis (or sterile IC), i.e. a non-bacterial recurring bladder infection which needs to be treated with plenty of glucosamine (which is a food supplement and not a medication) and metacam. It cannot be healed, only managed; recent research has confirmed that it is teh glucosamine coating of the urinary tract that prevents the very corrive urine coming into contact with raw tissue that seems most affected. You can lab test urine for the presence of bacteria but it is worth noting that your piggy can still have sterile IC but return a certain amount of bacteria.

I hope that this helps you?
Guinea Lynx :: UTI
Diet recommendations for guinea pigs with persistent/chronic urinary tract issues: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
Vet Locator

 

[Raymond92]

Thank you everyone for your kind messages. I have spoken to the vets and he is going in for a check up later this afternoon so I will keep you all posted.

@Wiebke Thanks for your message, that is really helpful. The vets seem pretty good and really helpful but may not be the most piggy savvy. He was on antibiotics (co-trimoxazole) for a week. So perhaps it wasn't long enough? He hasnt been checked for stones, sludge or had a sperm rod. They wanted to see how it goes with antibiotics first. I'll be interested to see what they come back with.

Thank you for those links as well, I will take a good look at those. Once again, thank you so much for your help and support.

 

[Raymond92]

Hi everyone, Raymond has just been to the vets. After a check up they are certain that he has bladder stones. So he is booked in for a scan and possibly surgery if stones are identified. The vet said that he would have expected the anti biotic and painkillers to have taken effect by now but given that his pain has come back it's likely to be stones.
He has been given more antibiotics and painkillers to ride him over until Friday.
In the meantime I'll read the links posted and will brush up my knowledge on Guinea Pig diets.
Thanks all

 

[Claire W]

I’m sorry that he may have bladder stones All the best for Friday. Please have a read of our post op guide in case he needs surgery. You may also wish to look at our diet guide

 

[Free Ranger]

Poor Raymond. We've had stones but only in older pigs of 3 or 4 years plus - he seems young for stones but it's always possible. As antibiotics made a difference to him this tells you there was a bacterial infection - stones make these more likely but you can have a UTI without stones. Your scan will show the vet which way it is.

Over the years my different pigs with UTI have had a couple of different types of antibiotics for different lengths of time... the last time was Baytril (which I had quite lost faith in!) but a really high dose for 5 days (much higher than we'd been given before, I was really worried actually) and miraculously it worked great with no ill effects. Before that another pig needed a different antibiotic for 3 weeks for her UTI and after 10 days off the UTI came back so it was another 3 weeks to kill off the offending bacteria. Antibiotics usually take between 1-3 days to kick in and similarly when they are removed you will see a difference within a few days as the low numbers of bacteria remaining re-grow - it looks to me that is what has happened to Raymond.

Do you see crusty white patches as his pee dries? This is calcium deposits because piggies pee out their excess calcium. They all do it a bit sometimes, some do it a lot, but if you have a piggy that doesn't pee large volumes (perhaps he doesn't drink so much) so there is a lot of solid, gritty calcium in a small volume it can make his flow slower and increase the chances of stones forming. However my George (in the picture) got a UTI without any stone trouble basically because he was sitting in a pile of his own poops and he'd had a bit of 'squishy poop' trouble. His tummy was always wet as he leaked pee and there was blood in it. He stopped doing big pees (because it hurt) and was just doing little splashes here and there. He was sorted with antibiotics (high and hard Baytril as mentioned above) and went back to doing big pees without pain and having a dry tum. I hope Raymond is stone-free and it's just a UTI but if there are stones we are here to support you x

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Hello. @Free Ranger .
Oh Raymond you poor little piggie. . Look you going to the doctors Friday . . Ok be a bum day. . Plus couple days not feeling great. . Well pal think of all the treats and lots love off piggie slave. . You be a brave piggie. .

 

[Raymond92]

Thanks everyone for your kind comments.

@Claire W I'll have a read of those guides. Thats really helpful thank you!

@Free Ranger sorry to hear that your piggies have suffered with UTI's. It's so horrible to see them in pain. Yes, he does seem a bit young for stones! I'll be interested to see what shows up on the scan. He's been given some Baytril but absolutely hates it, I'm struggling to give it to him but I'm hoping when he's had a good dose of that it will help.
Not noticing any crusty white patches, but we have cut down the amount of calcium that was in his diet. But I have noticed some dark brown/reddish patches in his sawdust so he might have blood in his wee
Thank you so much! Btw George is a beautiful piggie!

@David Piggie Lover thank you! Lots of love coming his way

Once again, thanks everyone for your support x

 

[Siikibam]

A few members on here follow baytril with a treat to ‘wash it down’. But otherwise baytril is a much hated antibiotic amongst piggies.

 

[Raymond92]

A few members on here follow baytril with a treat to ‘wash it down’. But otherwise baytril is a much hated antibiotic amongst piggies.

Thank you! I'll give that a go. I managed to give him some this morning but he's not happy with me!

 

[Free Ranger]

I use a small sprig of Parsley to take the taste away (mine are not fond of the lower calcium Coriander) or even the Metacam painkiller which is sweet and piggies love it. If I have Baytril and Metacam together I always Baytril first.

If Raymond is your pig-avatar he's an impressive boy!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you everyone for your kind messages. I have spoken to the vets and he is going in for a check up later this afternoon so I will keep you all posted.

@Wiebke Thanks for your message, that is really helpful. The vets seem pretty good and really helpful but may not be the most piggy savvy. He was on antibiotics (co-trimoxazole) for a week. So perhaps it wasn't long enough? He hasnt been checked for stones, sludge or had a sperm rod. They wanted to see how it goes with antibiotics first. I'll be interested to see what they come back with.

Thank you for those links as well, I will take a good look at those. Once again, thank you so much for your help and support.

Sulfatrim (co-trimoxazole is a generic brand name for it), should be given for at least 3-4 weeks but good for you for having had him vet checked for the next step - bladder stones or sludge. They can only be dealt with by an operation.

The one thing you have to be aware with boars more than with sows because they have a longer urethra with an awkward inglenook in there is that if your boy is suddenly taking a very marked downhill turn he needs a life-saving make or break emergency op asap because the stone will have been washed into the urethra, fetched up in the inglenook where it can block the flow of urine. It unfortunately happens often enough for me to want to alert you to act very promptly in case this happens before Friday.

Here is are our post-op care advice and our one stop emergency advice collection - not that we hope that either will be necessary but you may want to bookmark so you can prepare and have them easily available in case things go really badly wrong and you are panicking.
I always go by the motto that you have much more of a chance of a problem-free ride if you are prepared for the worst than if you aren't because that is when Murphy's law will catch you out.
Tips For Post-operative Care
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

 

[Raymond92]

I use a small sprig of Parsley to take the taste away (mine are not fond of the lower calcium Coriander) or even the Metacam painkiller which is sweet and piggies love it. If I have Baytril and Metacam together I always Baytril first.

If Raymond is your pig-avatar he's an impressive boy!

Thank you! He loves parsley so I'll give that a go.

Yes that's Raymond - thank you!

 

[Raymond92]

Sulfatrim (co-trimoxazole is a generic brand name for it), should be given for at least 3-4 weeks but good for you for having had him vet checked for the next step - bladder stones or sludge. They can only be dealt with by an operation.

The one thing you have to be aware with boars more than with sows because they have a longer urethra with an awkward inglenook in there is that if your boy is suddenly taking a very marked downhill turn he needs a life-saving make or break emergency op asap because the stone will have been washed into the urethra, fetched up in the inglenook where it can block the flow of urine. It unfortunately happens often enough for me to want to alert you to act very promptly in case this happens before Friday.

Here is are our post-op care advice and our one stop emergency advice collection - not that we hope that either will be necessary but you may want to bookmark so you can prepare and have them easily available in case things go really badly wrong and you are panicking.
I always go by the motto that you have much more of a chance of a problem-free ride if you are prepared for the worst than if you aren't because that is when Murphy's law will catch you out.
Tips For Post-operative Care
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Oh I had no idea it should have been taken for 3-4 weeks. I was only given about a weeks worth!
Thank you for making me aware. It's a bit sad to think about but you are right.. I'd rather be prepared and know what to do if it does become and emergency. I'm hoping he'll be ok till Friday. With the painkillers he seems to be urinating ok which is a good sign.
Thank you once again.

 

[Hath]

I give pepper after treatments, my boys literally expect it and wouldn't be happy if I skipped that bit!
I prefer to book surgeries at beginning of the week for in case they need to stay or go back. It's much cheaper and easier to get emergency care that way. But that's me overthinking and I understand you have to take the earliest date vet gives you. It's not like it's a planned surgery, but where possible I try to get them done sooner rather than wait until end of the week.
All the best!

 

[Raymond92]

I give pepper after treatments, my boys literally expect it and wouldn't be happy if I skipped that bit!
I prefer to book surgeries at beginning of the week for in case they need to stay or go back. It's much cheaper and easier to get emergency care that way. But that's me overthinking and I understand you have to take the earliest date vet gives you. It's not like it's a planned surgery, but where possible I try to get them done sooner rather than wait until end of the week.
All the best!

I've just tried cucumber, he wasnt happy but it did work.
Yes, that's a good idea. In future if either of my piggies need surgery (hopefully not) I'll try and get them booked at the start of the week. Thank you for the advice.

 

[Raymond92]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to give you all an update on Raymond. He had a scan and they couldn’t find any bladder stones but they did find a lot of sludge. The vets managed to clear a lot of sludge out his bladder, they’ve taken a urine sample to make sure there is no infection and will let me know. At the moment he is at home and doing well!
Thank you everyone for your support xx

 

[Free Ranger]

Oh that's good news! If he can keep drinking and flushing things through it will help him. Of course that phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" is also apt for guinea pigs! Try adding extra water bottle or moving them so they are (1) right next to the nugget bowl to drink while they eat, and (2) right next to where they spend the night, so if they wake up thirsty they don't have to emerge and wander round for a drink.

It will be worth your while to have a look at the diet guides linked above to see how to reduce excess calcium in the diet. I've learned since being on here that the biggest sources of calcium are 'hard' tap water and the nuggets they eat... and nuggets can vary quite a bit. There is a table somewhere. That's why people recommend only a tablespoon a day of nuggets and filtering the tap water. We are slowly reducing our nuggets (we have some rivalry issues) and we actually use a 'soft' bottled water as even when filtered our tap water here is still going to be pretty hard!

There are lots of opinions on how much low or high calcium veg to give and each person tends to find their own way. We personally give very little celery, hardly ever spinach or kale, and daily bell pepper - esp the green ones (1/4 to 1/8 per pig) although all of this is just rumour and speculation and the fact you get red, yellow and green peppers in a pack and I get indigestion from the green ones! I still see calcium pees sometimes but I just have to keep an eye on things as guinea pigs (and rabbits) naturally absorb all the calcium they eat and then get rid of any excess by peeing it out. I'm assuming they evolved this way to fuel those constantly growing teeth! I think people just don't absorb any excess which is just as well as I eat loads of dairy and would probably be p*ssing breezeblocks.

I'm still wondering about how he was better on antibiotics and then seemed to go downhill when they'd finished (as described in your original post) and then when given more antibiotics on Monday (to ride him over till today) he presumably improved again? Are you still on Ab's or are they waiting for the urine test to come back? If they're testing at this point for bacteria in the urine they might find nothing... but if there are low numbers of the baddies they may well return (unless they were clinging on in his sludge). Just keep an eye out and try to make sure you've got pain meds to tide him over if he starts crying again... at least you'll know what it is.

Keep getting better Raymond - we're all rooting for you

 

[Raymond92]

Oh that's good news! If he can keep drinking and flushing things through it will help him. Of course that phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" is also apt for guinea pigs! Try adding extra water bottle or moving them so they are (1) right next to the nugget bowl to drink while they eat, and (2) right next to where they spend the night, so if they wake up thirsty they don't have to emerge and wander round for a drink.

It will be worth your while to have a look at the diet guides linked above to see how to reduce excess calcium in the diet. I've learned since being on here that the biggest sources of calcium are 'hard' tap water and the nuggets they eat... and nuggets can vary quite a bit. There is a table somewhere. That's why people recommend only a tablespoon a day of nuggets and filtering the tap water. We are slowly reducing our nuggets (we have some rivalry issues) and we actually use a 'soft' bottled water as even when filtered our tap water here is still going to be pretty hard!

There are lots of opinions on how much low or high calcium veg to give and each person tends to find their own way. We personally give very little celery, hardly ever spinach or kale, and daily bell pepper - esp the green ones (1/4 to 1/8 per pig) although all of this is just rumour and speculation and the fact you get red, yellow and green peppers in a pack and I get indigestion from the green ones! I still see calcium pees sometimes but I just have to keep an eye on things as guinea pigs (and rabbits) naturally absorb all the calcium they eat and then get rid of any excess by peeing it out. I'm assuming they evolved this way to fuel those constantly growing teeth! I think people just don't absorb any excess which is just as well as I eat loads of dairy and would probably be p*ssing breezeblocks.

I'm still wondering about how he was better on antibiotics and then seemed to go downhill when they'd finished (as described in your original post) and then when given more antibiotics on Monday (to ride him over till today) he presumably improved again? Are you still on Ab's or are they waiting for the urine test to come back? If they're testing at this point for bacteria in the urine they might find nothing... but if there are low numbers of the baddies they may well return (unless they were clinging on in his sludge). Just keep an eye out and try to make sure you've got pain meds to tide him over if he starts crying again... at least you'll know what it is.

Keep getting better Raymond - we're all rooting for you

Thank you! It's a bit difficult trying to get him to drink water at the moment. His bottle is close to where he sleeps at night and I've also put out an additional bowl of water to encourage him (I know it's not the best as it needs changing often). I have been trying to give him cucumber to keep him hydrated.

With regards to the water situation I was giving him tap water (didn't realise at the time that this was an issue) but have now swapped to filtered water only. I've also been reducing the nuggets, I have checked and they are low calcium which is good but I'm just making sure that he only has around a tablespoon of nuggets a day, mostly hay and a little bit of veg.

Yes that was a bit strange... so he had a few days of painkillers to start with which did help, but he was still crying so was given anti-biotics. The anti-biotics helped alot but a couple days after his course ended he started crying again. I took him back to the vets, they booked him in for a scan and to keep him going gave him a different anti-biotics (Baytril) which did not do anything. He has now had his 'bladder flushed' (I don't know the technical term!) and has been given some more anti-biotics and some urine health tablets but he is still in pain. I don't know if he's just a bit tender from him procedure? He hasn't been given any painkillers - should he have been? He is crying more than before and kicking his legs out when trying to urinate. I notice he is able to go which is good, I just hate seeing him in pain. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support x

 

[Raymond92]

Oh that's good news! If he can keep drinking and flushing things through it will help him. Of course that phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" is also apt for guinea pigs! Try adding extra water bottle or moving them so they are (1) right next to the nugget bowl to drink while they eat, and (2) right next to where they spend the night, so if they wake up thirsty they don't have to emerge and wander round for a drink.

It will be worth your while to have a look at the diet guides linked above to see how to reduce excess calcium in the diet. I've learned since being on here that the biggest sources of calcium are 'hard' tap water and the nuggets they eat... and nuggets can vary quite a bit. There is a table somewhere. That's why people recommend only a tablespoon a day of nuggets and filtering the tap water. We are slowly reducing our nuggets (we have some rivalry issues) and we actually use a 'soft' bottled water as even when filtered our tap water here is still going to be pretty hard!

There are lots of opinions on how much low or high calcium veg to give and each person tends to find their own way. We personally give very little celery, hardly ever spinach or kale, and daily bell pepper - esp the green ones (1/4 to 1/8 per pig) although all of this is just rumour and speculation and the fact you get red, yellow and green peppers in a pack and I get indigestion from the green ones! I still see calcium pees sometimes but I just have to keep an eye on things as guinea pigs (and rabbits) naturally absorb all the calcium they eat and then get rid of any excess by peeing it out. I'm assuming they evolved this way to fuel those constantly growing teeth! I think people just don't absorb any excess which is just as well as I eat loads of dairy and would probably be p*ssing breezeblocks.

I'm still wondering about how he was better on antibiotics and then seemed to go downhill when they'd finished (as described in your original post) and then when given more antibiotics on Monday (to ride him over till today) he presumably improved again? Are you still on Ab's or are they waiting for the urine test to come back? If they're testing at this point for bacteria in the urine they might find nothing... but if there are low numbers of the baddies they may well return (unless they were clinging on in his sludge). Just keep an eye out and try to make sure you've got pain meds to tide him over if he starts crying again... at least you'll know what it is.

Keep getting better Raymond - we're all rooting for you

Sorry I forgot to your comment re urine sample... he is on anti-biotics and they have sent his urine off for testing. Their concern was that after the procedure piggies can sometimes get UTI's - would this show up on a urine sample? I'm concerned that he doesn't have any pain meds. I have some metacam left over from previously. Do you think I'd be ok to give him it until the vets are open on Monday? I'm wondering if perhaps they forgot to give it to me. x

 

[Free Ranger]

Poor Raymond Personally if he's in pain and I'd got leftover painkiller I'd give it to him because your experience is that he can take it well and it helps him to keep peeing. I've no experience of this flushing procedure but I can imagine that if a catheter was involved he'd be feeling tender. You might be able to phone the vet tomorrow and request more metacam without him being seen again. My vets will do this. For a 1 kilo pig we use about 0.23ml of dog metacam (1.5mg/ml... not the 0.5mg/ml cat type) and we give this twice a day so 12 hours apart. We have even doubled up in the past with no ill effects but the dose depends on pig bodyweight so it's important the vet works it out for your boy.

Baytril has been around for a while and there is resistance to it but it is often the first antibiotic chosen because it is specifically licensed for guinea pigs. Is he back on his original antibiotic again then?

Do you know what the 'urine health' tablets are?

Be brave Raymond and I hope you feel better soon x

 

[Raymond92]

Poor Raymond Personally if he's in pain and I'd got leftover painkiller I'd give it to him because your experience is that he can take it well and it helps him to keep peeing. I've no experience of this flushing procedure but I can imagine that if a catheter was involved he'd be feeling tender. You might be able to phone the vet tomorrow and request more metacam without him being seen again. My vets will do this. For a 1 kilo pig we use about 0.23ml of dog metacam (1.5mg/ml... not the 0.5mg/ml cat type) and we give this twice a day so 12 hours apart. We have even doubled up in the past with no ill effects but the dose depends on pig bodyweight so it's important the vet works it out for your boy.

Baytril has been around for a while and there is resistance to it but it is often the first antibiotic chosen because it is specifically licensed for guinea pigs. Is he back on his original antibiotic again then?

Do you know what the 'urine health' tablets are?

Be brave Raymond and I hope you feel better soon x

I made a decision last night to give him some left over metacam. He took 0.4ml previously so I’ve stuck with the same dosage. He didn’t have a catheter as the vets said his bits were too small for a catheter and they don’t often use it for guinea pigs. I forgot to ask what exactly the procedure was but I was told urine had been drained and they had managed to remove a lot of sludge.
That’s interesting about Baytril! He’s back on the original antibiotic which worked ok for him first time. The urine health tablets are called Vetpro healthy urinary tract function.
Even after 2 doses of painkiller (one last night and one this morning) he is still crying when urinating. I’m hoping he will improve later on today. So I’m just keeping an eye on him. It’s not helping that he’s drinking water either. if he hasn’t had anything by the end of the day I’ll give him some cucumber and lettuce for some hydration. x

 

[VickiA]

I think I’d be tempted in your shoes to give him regular metacam, too. It’s an anti inflammatory as well as a pain killer so should help with his discomfort.
If you can encourage him to drink more, that might help flush his bladder through. You could soak his veggies in filtered water and give him some watery veg like cucumber and romaine lettuce to help get a bit of extra liquid into him. Poor chap.

 

[Raymond92]

I think I’d be tempted in your shoes to give him regular metacam, too. It’s an anti inflammatory as well as a pain killer so should help with his discomfort.
If you can encourage him to drink more, that might help flush his bladder through. You could soak his veggies in filtered water and give him some watery veg like cucumber and romaine lettuce to help get a bit of extra liquid into him. Poor chap.

Thank you. It's great to get another opinion. I'll give him some more tonight.
Thanks for that idea - I didnt think about soaking them in filtered water.
I'm actually starting to wonder if his pain is due to possible constipation.. I noticed a moment ago he was crying for quite a while. When I looked I notice loads of droppings (much more than he'd usually do) with some clumped together. Has anyones piggies has issues with constipation after anaesthetic?
Sorry to keep asking so many questions. I just feel so sad seeing Raymond in so much pain.

 

[Free Ranger]

They don't really get constipated as such but they can get impacted. And antibiotics can mess up the guts a bit. Maybe he just had to move a bit of a backlog and it would have pressed against his tender urinary tract as it moved. Hopefully it was a one-off x

My George, like some older boars, suffers from mild impaction. Occasionally he has to be 'un-bunged' like tonight! I pick George up and feel his bottom and sometimes there is a firm bulge near his anus - the size of a big marble - like he's going to lay an egg. George is neutered so I know what it isn't! The blockage is the soft caecotrophs binding together with the normal poops. He can usually poop normally around it, and sometimes pass it himself, but when he gets a big blockage there is a backlog of poops. The first time he was unbunged he went off under a stool in a huff and I watched him suddenly strain and pass about 9 poops in one go! The sac is a bit baggy - that's why he gets bunged up in the first place. I just have to flip him (supporting him securely) and gently manoeuvre this thing out. It can be a bit painful, I'm sure, but he's a good boy and gets over it quickly and he's much more comfortable after. You could check for an egg-like bulge under Raymond but go gently as he must be uncomfortable poor boy. He's young but it might be a one off post surgery. I really feel for you - it's awful to see them in pain.

Speak to the vet about maybe adjusting his pain management... there are other options than metacam you can take home but we've not had anything else. But we do metacam twice a day - once every 12 hours as they can metabolise it quickly.

 

[Raymond92]

Ah ok! Perhaps its not constipation then, he is still crying quite a bit even with metacam but I dont know how much of the pain is caused from having his bladder flushed.

Thanks for the tips on impaction! I will check him tonight to make sure hes not having any issues. Sounds like your George is much more co-operative than Raymond! Raymond cant stand being flipped on his back. I'll let you know how I get on with him tonight.

And I'll have a chat with the vet about pain management. I'm not sure whether the pain is to be expected a few days after his procedure.

Thanks once again! Everyone on this forum has been fantastic. Can't tell you how much I appreciate it xx

 

[Raymond92]

I just phoned the vet and explained his pain and they would like him to come back in for another examination. He's booked in at 5.15 so I'll let you all know how it goes x