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'cucumber bug' ?

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bekked

bekked

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I was reading the news on Yahoo this morning, and got grabbed by an artical called 'cucmber bug'.
Apparently several german tourists visiting england have contracted a lethal form of Ecoli...from cucumbers..?
Here's the link, I hope it works.

I was just wondering what you guys thought of this? And would it be a good idea to not feed our piggies cucumber for a while? It does say that it was 'just a special type of organic cucmbers from spain'.. but I'm guessing if such a vicious strain of bacteria can live in something like a cucumber long enough to make people sick, then perhaps it could also be found in other types of cucmber?
Apart from Campylobacter and and Clostridium and all the rest, Ecoli is one of the scariest bugs out there. A piggie with any of these would not..have good chances.


I'm not freaking out or anything, I was just wondering what you guys thought of this, and if you think it's okay to keep giving piggies cucumber or should we chose different veggies for a while?
 
I'm sure Pebble will give a good 'scientific' answer when she see this post.

I'm a bit confused though - E coli is in faeces and the gut - just what are the farmers doing with the cucumbers before they send them off to market? Hopefully it's nothing more bizarre than using manure as a fertiliser, another very good reason to always wash your veg.

Suzy x
 
As far as I know the outbreak is strictly down to the consumption of cucumbers (mostly in salads) in Northern Germany. Cases in other countries have been confined to people who have just returned from there.

Whether it is down to manure or a pellet of cucumbers being dropped onto the soiled floor during transport (as the Spanish suggest) is at the moment not clear and will probably take time to establish.

I have been monitoring reports in the Swiss and German media in last week since my mum is currently in that region for a visit.

However, washing raw veg before serving is never a bad idea!
 
Thanks for the comments, guys!
I'm looking forward to Pebble's input on this topic, too. She seems to know her stuff very well. :)


I guess the reason I'm worried is because Ecoli shouldnt be able to live in cucumbers, not for very long.
I think as you guys said, it must be something in the fertilizer they use, because things like Ecoli need warm moist conditions to truly thrive in.. so what on earth were they doing to those cucumbers?!

I dont care about myself, but I'm worried for my piggies. Ever since there was a bacillus cereus concern a while back, I've stopped giving my pigs anything like rice/pasta/grains.

/worried and over-protective guinea pig owner.
 
Thanx for the PM HW

This is not uncommon in terms of E coli being caught from (mainly) organic veggies....it's a hygiene problem.

The bug does not "live" IN cucumbers.....it has been contracted because the cucumbers have been fed/sprayed organic fertiliser (ie cow sh*t) that contains a pathogenic variant of E coli. The bug remains on the surface of the cucumber and the cucumbers have not subsequently been washed properly before being eaten.

Remember the E coli outbreak at a "certain kiddies farm near me darn sarf" last year? Farm animals harbour E coli in the gut and it can sometimes become pathogenic for humans with serious results...Hygiene (hand washing, minimising exposure to surfaces in contact with the actual poo) is important

With ANY veggies, (even pre-packed supermarket ones) they should always be washed first before feeding to hoomans or guineas.....to remove residual pesticides.....(Or, if organic, cow sh*t :)))


There is another bug that we occasionally hear of that contaminates drinking water that comes mianly from cows and that is Cryptosporium - this is a parasite as opposed to a bacterium (it is "built" differently)....it happens when surface water run off from cow fields is not, once it reaches the reservoir and water treatment plant, treated properly to kill the bug.

There is no need to withdraw cucumbers...this is merely a "batch" from a particular farm in Spain that used a contaminated cow poo preparation to spray as an organic fertiliser...

You should however always adopt a policy of washing everything (even hedgerow stuff) in running cold water before feeding.

Hope this clarifies

x
 
Woops - just seen the B cereus reference so let's clarify that as well.

Every so often someone gets (rather violent) food poisoning from a Chinese or Indian take-away....

If it's not Salmonella or E coli from meat/eggs, chances are it could be B cereus from the rice...(especially if the symptoms start 8 hours after consumption) This happens because B cereus is prevalent all around us (It's in the soil) and produces spores to reproduce. If those spores get into rice and the rice is constantly (but inadequately) re-heated, the spores germinate and B cereus starts growing and producing a toxin. It's the toxin that causes us to be sick.

So B Cereus "infection" (ie food poisoning) only occurs in previously cooked but inadeqautely reheated/rewarmed rice/grains

Other forms of food poisoning such as Salmonella, E coli, Staph aureus all have different "timescales" following consumption of the contaminated food before the symptoms appear...it's one way of determining which "bug" you;ve got.

Staph aureus (toxin) is normally 4 hours with violent vomiting, Salmonella is 24-48 hours (possibly with very little symptoms although vomiting and diarrhoea is common) , B cereus is 8 hours (violent vomiting from toxin)....etc etc

There are other bugs you can catch...such as crytpo as mentioned before...and others such as Campylobacter (again normally from contaminated water supplies in UK). Abroad there is also Giardia (parasite) Ameobic dysentery (parasite); Shigella (bacterial dysentery) and cholera (bacterial)...plus viruses

As far as piggies are concerned - diarrhoea is normally a symptom of
a) too much fresh veg (no bug)
b) gut motility problems through not eating properly (no bug)
c) wrong antibioitic admin causing Clostriudium difficile or E coli overgrowth
d) contamination of organic veggies as per the cucmber scenario above (E coli or crypto)

There are other bugs (rare) but it is important that if your piggie has diarrhoea for more than 5 days that a poo culture is done to find out the cause..and the bug's sensitivity to the various antibioitics

x
 
Very relevant considering my current situation (and the fact I was nomming a cheese and cucumber roll when reading this, haha!)

I remember the 'farm drama', I found it rather interesting to be honest that when I was a kid (and went to said farm billions of times) and they had ye olde 'soap' and 'water' to use when you came out of the animal pens, you very very rarely heard of anything like this. Now the fancy pants hand gels etc are around, so noone uses soap and water as it clearly isn't good enough, we get an e.coli outbreak...people don't seem to realise a lot of these hand gels and such were formulated to stop people panicking about swine flu etc, that I am aware of, and as far as I know are more effective at fighting common people germs that 'poo germs' which soap and water can and should deal with if washed and importantly dried properly. Hand gels etc are NOT a substitute for basic hand washing.
 
Very true, Doeylicious! :)
Allthough ideally, both should be used, if possible!
Having worked in care homes for the elderly, I've often been shocked to see people rubbing the alcohol based sanitisers over their hands without giving thought to washing and drying their hands first.
Alcagel is awesome for preventing Cross contamination and killing more common bugs, but it should no way be used instead of correct hand washing.


I hope your cucumber sandwich was nomalicious, lol
 
bekked said:
Very true, Doeylicious! :)
Allthough ideally, both should be used, if possible!
Having worked in care homes for the elderly, I've often been shocked to see people rubbing the alcohol based sanitisers over their hands without giving thought to washing and drying their hands first.
Alcagel is awesome for preventing Cross contamination and killing more common bugs, but it should no way be used instead of correct hand washing.


I hope your cucumber sandwich was nomalicious, lol
Click to expand...

If I am out shopping and we stop for a coffee and a brownie, I do use a gel as a quick 'anti germ' and always wash my hands when I get in. The care home one I know of too as my Nan is in a home, when we come out we all use the gel for the time being, then wash hands again when we get in...even in Victorian times kids were made to wash their hands before High Tea and Supper, lol.

Sandwich was nommy thanks :)) hehe
 
Hehehe, I'm glad you got to enjoy the sandwich in peace :D
Whenever I try to cut even just the teeny tiniest piece of cucumber for myself in this place I get a gigantic chorus of "WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIK WIIIIK WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIK!" from 8 different piggies all thinking it's going to be a treat for them!
 
the only dangers ive ever encountered from cucumbers is moving my fingers away quickly enough before piggie teeth get them :))
 
bekked said:
/worried and over-protective guinea pig owner.
Click to expand...

I had to "thank", for that.. I felt/feel exactly the same! Because it was only this morning I found out about these cucumbers from a relative that blows things out of proportion (so you can imagine what I heard). And I go into the kitchen to find that one of the veggies that I lay out yesterday to give the pigs today was cucumber!

Me, then with only about 1/6 of the facts about the diese-ed cucumbers and what was going on, was practically having a nervous breakdown on deciding what to do! Plus, the cucumber I was giving had little white dots dotted around, so I was like "god.. whats that?!".

Any-who, I decided to give it to them (thoroughly washed of course). And the good news in they seem alright! :D Haha, and I'm so glad that I've now got the facts straight!

Pebble said:
This is not uncommon in terms of E coli being caught from (mainly) organic veggies....it's a hygiene problem.

The bug does not "live" IN cucumbers.....it has been contracted because the cucumbers have been fed/sprayed organic fertiliser (ie cow sh*t) that contains a pathogenic variant of E coli. The bug remains on the surface of the cucumber and the cucumbers have not subsequently been washed properly before being eaten.

With ANY veggies, (even pre-packed supermarket ones) they should always be washed first before feeding to hoomans or guineas.....to remove residual pesticides.....(Or, if organic, cow sh*t :)))
Click to expand...

Thank you Pebble! That's a load of my mind now haha (sorry I shortened you comment, I didn't want my comment be to long hehe). xx>>>
 
Thanks for all your information. I started a new thread because I didn't see this. Unfortunately, I live in the centre of the problem (North Germany) and we don't eat any raw vegetables at the moment. We do feed our guinea pigs carrots that we wash, but I'm extremely worried, especially since we just don't get enough information here.
 
Update

It looks like the E coli outbreak has been traced to beansprouts and other shoots such as alfalfa from a German organic farm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/06/e-coli-germany-bean-sprouts

Just to emphasise that all these types of cases are a case of surface contamination by either anmal poo/manure or contaminated water. Basic hygiene is normally enough to prevent infection.

To minimise risk to your piggies, it is always advisable to wash all raw veg/wild herbage under cold running water before giving it to them as there are other bugs (and chemicals) that could cause them harm besides E coli.

x
 
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