Cystitis/UTI/Stones

[Gig]

Hi,
My 7 month old boar has been squealing on weeing. There is no blood evident, but he ony pees a small amount at a time, and it's cloudy. I'd read up on here about Septrin as opposed to Baytril, and armed with a urine sample I trotted off to the vet. She tested the urine first and found no trace of blood or infection. She then physically examined him (quite probingly). She said there was nothing to manually feel in the way of stones, but that his bladder appeared thicker than that of his brother and cagemate. She suggested Baytril, but was happily fine about changing to Septrin when I asked. I also asked for probiotics as she didn't give me those as a matter of course.
The dosage she prescribed was 0.4ml once a day for 6 days. (He's just under 800g) That doesn't seem consistent with what I've been reading on here. Please could I have some specific input regarding steps to be taken from here? Should I be going back and getting more Septrin and try him on it for longer?
I'm obviously taking the precautionary low calcium steps but fear it may not be enough in the end.

Many thanks

 

[Gig]

I missed a bit! He left some more wee on the table after his exam, and this time it tested pos for the presence of blood. Maybe the exam aggravated some grit?

 

[katiepops]

Hiya
From looking back at thread that Laura CCC4 (Guinea pig help line) commented on she said
"For an adult pig over 6 months (weighing approx. 800g+) the normal dosage for Paediatric Septrin is 0.5ml - 1ml twice daily... For Adult Septrin, it is half the dose, so 0.25ml - 5ml twice daily."
So it depends on which strength Septrin you've got. If it is a UTI you should see a response quite quickly but should always finish the course of antibiotics.
If it doesn't work then it's worth having an x-ray (shouldn't need a general anesthetic) to see if there are any stones.
Are you happy your vet is cavvy savy? If you tell us where you are based hopefully we can recommend a good vet if not.

Kate

 

[Gig]

Hi,
It's the paediatric strength. I have to confess I have actually been giving him 0.4 twice a day based on what I read on here. He's on the 6th day already though and I don't know if I should continue or not, bearing in mind she told me once daily for 6 days!
There's no improvement yet - I'm fairly convinced it's stones

 

[doglovinpiggylover]

awww poor thing, so young too, hope you get it sorted with out too much pain or discomfort x

 

[katiepops]

I'd keep going with it while you have enough. I know Wiebke usually does a three week course with her piggies. You might need an anti-inflammatory aswell, e.g. Metacam
Is there pink wee or just squeaking now?

 

[Wiebke]

6 days of septrin is a bit short for a course; 3-4 weeks is what it ususally takes to clear a UTI in my experience. They can be very persistent. We are coming up to UTI season when people are starting to put their piggies back outside and on the damp/cold grass.

However, if you do not see any bettering in pain while peeing after a week, please see your vet and ask for an x-ray to check for bladder sludge (grit) or stones on top of a longer course of septrin. That would be the next logical step. However, he is frankly very young to have developed grit and stones; they usually turn up in adult piggies as they take time to build up.

The dosis is about right, considering that your piggy is just below 800g. If the pain is still there, aask for metacam (it is a painkiller/anti-inflammatory).

You can get probiotics from p@h or if you want a specific one, over the internet. Septrin is generally easier on the guts than baytril.

Here is the pertinent info from guinealynx:
http://www.guinealynx.info/uti.html

 

[Gig]

Thanks for the replies.
Katiepops - apologies for not addressing your points earlier. As far as I'm aware there is no particularly cavy savvy vet in my area. The one I've just seen was on the recommend of a rescue who had heard they were worth trying. They were, in as much as they don't treat you like an idiot, and are willing to listen to what's being said (ie - no hesitation changing from baytril to septrin at my request, and in providing the probiotic, again on request). Also, there may yet be an even more savvy vet there as a few of them have small animal interest which is heartening.
Having said all that,with what I have picked up from Lisa, a rodentologist near me, combined with info from here has demonstrated that so far, I seem to be more knowledgeable than the vets I've seen. I'm in Lincoln, so I'd be more than happy to hear any suggestions on that front.

Fergus is not the most robust little fella. He was born blind in one eye (and to be honest I think is probably more or less completely blind. He has a head tilt too. Apart from being on the small side, he's been doing well until recently. There' has never been any visible blood, just the squealing, but the type of squealing leaves you in no doubt that it hurts It's no better or worse now, than six days ago.
He's never been on grass as we only took him and his brother on towards the end of October, so they have that delight yet to come. I really don't think it's a UTI but I will ask the vet if she'll extend the course just in case

 

[Gig]

Update on Fergie - I kept him on the Septrin for 3 weeks as I had enough - no change.
Today he has had an xray and an ultrasound which have not revealed anything. When I went to pick him up, the vet wasn't there, and I was handed some Baytril with instructions to start him on that. No probiotic and no explanation of why, bearing in mind he'd already had the Septrin. At the same time they said they were thinking cystitis, but no mention of any treatment along those lines. Can anyone reassure me that there is some validity to now starting him on Baytril?
(Fortunately I have some probiotic anyway)
Would be very grateful for views on his future treatment plan?

 

[cglith]

Can someone explain uti season. There seems to be lots of piggies with this sort of problems. I have kept piggies for 6 years and never herd of this. What can be done to avoid such problems.

 

[sport_billy]

Update on Fergie - I kept him on the Septrin for 3 weeks as I had enough - no change.
Today he has had an xray and an ultrasound which have not revealed anything. When I went to pick him up, the vet wasn't there, and I was handed some Baytril with instructions to start him on that. No probiotic and no explanation of why, bearing in mind he'd already had the Septrin. At the same time they said they were thinking cystitis, but no mention of any treatment along those lines. Can anyone reassure me that there is some validity to now starting him on Baytril?
(Fortunately I have some probiotic anyway)
Would be very grateful for views on his future treatment plan?

Good call on the Xray and Ultrasound to rule out stones. I had to do this with my 5 year old 7 weeks ago. Did the ultrasound show any thickening of the bladder wall?
Have they sent a sample of urine away to culture? This would indicate wether it is an infection and if there are bugs present in the wee. It may be worth doing this to rule out an infection. Also get the vet to look at the urine tosee if any calcium crystals are present.

If it is non bacterial cystitis (this is what our piggie has) Under our vets advice - We are currently syringing a quarter of a capsule of cystease in 1ml of water instructions to line the bladder. She has also had 4 injections of something called cartrophen injections to help line the bladder wall. These treatments are like most things off licence for piggles but our vet has had success in the past with this treatment. May be worth discussing this with your vet...

For now I would give the Baytrill a try but use a probiotic as it is harsh on gut and can stop some piggies from eating so keep an eye on him while he is taking it. I would also try and speak to the vet regarding the scans, they will be happy to answer any questions.

I hope things improve for him, it is awful to hear them cry... Good luck, hope the above helps.