• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Daisy - Possible Diabetes Problem Pig

Status
Not open for further replies.
louise_stocker

louise_stocker

Teenage Guinea Pig
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
615
Reaction score
7
Points
325
Location
Fife, Scotland
Hi folks, this might be quite a long post sorry!

Daisy (1.5 years old) recently had a urine test and showed very high glucose levels which prompted us to think she possibly had diabetes. She was being fed Wagg Crunch at the time. We've since switched to supreme science pellets and with the help of Glynis, have also altered her fresh food to include only low-sugar veggies. Our other 3 girls who are all in the same cage have stable weight or are gaining weight but Daisy has now started losing weight (about 5-10g per day).

She is actually very happy/perky in herself and as far as I can see spends most of her day eating (mainly hay). Since the change in diet, she now has normal glucose levels in her urine however in the last 3 weeks she has developed cataracts which I know is linked to diabetes.

We saw our vet again yesterday, who has given us 3-4 days to try and get her to stablise/gain weight otherwise she wants her to have a blood test to check kidney function. She wants to use a tiny amount of gas which is obviously why I'm worried but I do trust her as she's an excellent piggie vet.

I'm really not sure what else I can give her to help her gain weight. Like I said, she is eating normally from what I can see. We tried to give her some oats yesterday but she wasn't interested in them. We've been giving loads of low-sugar veggies, lots of different types of hay, readigrass and dry pellets and she has been eating a bit of everything.

I know I'm not allowed to give her any more Wagg as it has syrup added to it but I wondered if it would be okay to take out the squashed pea bits to give her as she really likes them.

I just wondered if anyone had any other advice really. Would really appreciate it if anyone has been through anything similar.

Louise & Daisy x

Here is Daisy with her friend Betty. You can see her cataracts which have come on in 3 weeks :(

daisybetty.jpg
 
Sorry I should have mentioned her actual weight. She was 1060g on 23rd March and is now 978g. She's not skinny but obviously we don't want her to lose any more. Louise xx
 
Has she been tested again for glucose, in the urine and the blood?

There's a woman in America I contacted when I lost Bette - she has two diabetic guinea pigs, maybe contact her and ask her advice?

Patricia's diabetic guinea pig's I'll get the link for her website when I get home, a google search might throw it up.

Found It: http://www.google.com/m/url?channel...8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGiaSUHxmwoeZYngQv6KOuzYawZ8w
 
Last edited:
No advice I'm afraid, just wanted send her healing vibes. Corn is supposed to be fattening but I am unsure on the sugar levels...
 
Hi Flintstones, We've been testing her urine at home every few days. For the past 2 weeks its been totally normal. She hasn't had her blood tested yet. That's probably going to have to happen in the next few days.

The vet wanted to check first that she's not losing weight due to not eating enough but because for whatever reason the calories aren't being absorbed properly. She suggested we try and stuff her for the next 3-4 days to see if we can get her to gain any weight which is why I'm looking for high calorie foods.

She ate loads and loads last night but has lost another 10g this morning.

Its such a shame because I got the packet of Wagg out and she went mad just from smelling it in the same room. Wish I could give her some but I want the blood test to be taken while she's on a good diet so the Wagg doesn't interfere with the results.

I think I've found the website you mentioned. Is it this one? http://patriciasimon.shawwebspace.ca/pages/view/guinea_pigs_with_diabetes_-_gene/

I might get in touch and see what she thinks. Thank you x
 
sport_billy said:
No advice I'm afraid, just wanted send her healing vibes. Corn is supposed to be fattening but I am unsure on the sugar levels...
Click to expand...

Thanks so much. I thought about corn but thought that being called sweetcorn might mean its high in sugar. Same with sweet potatoes which I've read they can eat! Obviously I'm avoiding fruit too x
 
I contacted her after I lost Bette she's very clued up.

Bette's first sign was drinking initially the vet I went to dismissed it as normal when she lost 1\10th of her bodyweight I found a new vet the first tes we did was a urine test Bette continued going downill, she was booked to have her teeth done but she was so ill she was a site - we did a urine sample and then immediately a blood test which is a pinprick behind the ear both samples where sky high my understanding is the only way to correctly diagnose diabetes is a urine sample followed immediately by a pin prick test both must show elevated Glucoses.

Unfortunately my experience with the disease is limited.
 
flintstones said:
I contacted her after I lost Bette she's very clued up.

Bette's first sign was drinking initially the vet I went to dismissed it as normal when she lost 1\10th of her bodyweight I found a new vet the first tes we did was a urine test Bette continued going downill, she was booked to have her teeth done but she was so ill she was a site - we did a urine sample and then immediately a blood test which is a pinprick behind the ear both samples where sky high my understanding is the only way to correctly diagnose diabetes is a urine sample followed immediately by a pin prick test both must show elevated Glucoses.

Unfortunately my experience with the disease is limited.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much and so, so sorry about Bette. Little bit confused though as my vet is one of the best in the country but wants to give gas to take blood (although admittedly Daisy would only be under for 1-2 minutes) but its always a worry obviously. Just emailing Patricia now. Thanks so much x
 
Found this for you, we used it for helping devise a low calcium diet ages ago, it's off Guinealynx and is a sortable food chart http://www.guinealynx.info/chart.html#chart It is quite handy to refer to occassionally.

Keep us posted on how your little one does x
 
Bette was only tested for diabetes your vet will be doing full bloodworks testing kidney's etc Bette was to poorly by this point to do full bloods.

Given the chance again I would opt for full bloods when Bette was well enough.
 
flintstones said:
Bette was only tested for diabetes your vet will be doing full bloodworks testing kidney's etc Bette was to poorly by this point to do full bloods.

Given the chance again I would opt for full bloods when Bette was well enough.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's cleared it up for me x
 
Hi Louise

Hugs - this type of situation is pretty horrible and I know how worried you must be.

Despite the positive urine test, weight loss and cataracts, there still could be other possible causes (or a combination) rather than diabetes per se -

Also - All the possible things it "might" be can impact on each other (eg diabetes puts pressure on the kidneys, heart problems put pressure on the kidneys and vice versa; cataracts can be a sign of diabetes but also a sign of other metabolic or haematological disease - or even just genetic pre-disposition) so identifying the primary cause as opposed to the secondary problems can sometimes be quite difficult.

The main concern here is the slow but relentless weight loss. Urinary glucose is an alarm bell - but could be a false positive.

Assuming teeth and/or pain from urinary/respiratory/reproductive issues has been ruled out, then it would indicate there is possibly either a (treatable) heart or kidney issue so your vet is right to want to pursue this. However heart or kidney issues can be caused by other issues. So your best bet to try and find out what is causing her problems is a full blood test work up to include not just kidney function but full haematology (differential blood cell counts) biochemisty (liver kidneys, heart) and thyroid (plus any other relevant hormones) I suggest that you check with your vet what tests they intend to do.

That way she will be under gas just the once once but enough blood will be taken to do a full work-up and then at least you can have some peace of mind knowing her organs are functioning properly and perhaps the vet, armed with the results info, can zero in on what is causing the problem.

I have noticed that my vet is opting to take blood far more readily now when I bring a piggie in with an unidentifiable problem. involving weight loss. At first I was quite sceptical because it is a risky procedure. However my vets have been brilliant - taking blood from compromised pigs without any problems at all under GA - and the peace of mind knowing that the piggies in question have fully functioning kidneys, liver and heart, with no lymphoma, leukaemia or anaemia is a real relief.... even though the causes might not have been identified and I end up just treating the symptoms. Be prepared for the blood tests to be normal (which will be a GOOD thing)

As far as feeding good foods for possible diabetes to put weight on - low glycaemic index is what is required - this relates to how easily the sugars/carbohydrates are absorbed into the bloodstream and metabolised - hence why you may have been surprised about sweet potoatoed and sweetcorn. Low GI foods also include oats, cooked pearl barley, and good quality nuggets. The flaked peas you mention are low GI but are also high in protein and given your vet is looking at kidneys I would hold off on those for now as they may increase protein levels in the urine.

Processed baby food and fruit contains sugars readily/quickly absorbed by the blood stream (high GI) whilst the low GI foods mentioned above contain complex sugars that need to be digested before being absorbed and therefore don;t give an automatic "sugar rush". However if you mix the two types of food, that slows the absorption of the freely available sugars so it is all about balance/mixing together.

So one other thing I suggest you could try is my favourite syringe feed recipe - take good quality nuggets, hydrate in water, blend up and add ellas organic baby food in a ratio of 5:1 (ie 5 volumes of nugget mash to one volume of ellas). The only 3 ellas varieties I use are
a) sweetcorn pumpkin and peas;
b) carrots apple and parsnips or
c) (if not gassy/bloaty problems for piggy concerned) sweet potoatoes, broccoli and carrots.

I put it in a bowl and let the pig help themselves.

Any questions you know my number (i think). If not then Pm me. I've had to make changes to my diet as a diagnosed pre-diabetic and so have a good knowledge of low GI foodstuffs/combinations.

Thinking of you and Daisy and keeping fingers and paws crossed for a good diagnosis.

HTH
x
 
Hi Pebble

Huge, huge thanks!

As always your post has been unbelievably helpful and answered so many of the questions going through my head! You've also given me the confidence to just get on with the blood test. I've obviously been putting it off a bit. However since your vet recommendation last year (after Peggy's experience), I have huge amounts of confidence in our new vet which helps so much when facing these kind of situations.

I just thought I'd let you know what Daisy is currently eating and if there's anything that is a no-no or might affect the blood work.

supreme science selective nuggets
meadow hay, timothy hay, orchard grass, oat wheat & barley hay, readigrass
dried dandelions with plantain & lemon balm
broccoli, cauliflower, sugar snap peas, mange tout, spinach, pepper, cucumber, celery, curly kale, romaine lettuce

I think I'll try and get her booked in for bloods today or tomorrow and then we can make a serious push to try and get her to gain weight. Your syringe recipe looks great. I'll pop off to the shops and see if I can find any ellas baby food.

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write such a great post x
 
I don't know anything about that, so I'm just wishing Daisy healing vibes. So sorry to hear that she developed cataracts so quickly, good luck discovering the problem and getting her better.
 
I was all ready to ring the vet to book her in for a blood test. Had a quick weigh and she's gained 15g - her first weight gain in days. I know 15g is nothing but I'm all mixed up again now as to what to do. I can't decide whether to give her a few more days - perhaps over the weekend. Arrghh!
 
I can only speak from experience I refused to do Bloods on Bette, within 2 weeks she was far to unwell to even consider bloods.

With Milo the first sign of weightloss I had bloods done the reason for this is didn't want history repeating it's self.

A 15 gram weight gain is nothing - she may just have a full bladder. She's developed cataracts and has weightloss this can inidicates something isn't right and it is important if she has diabetes you get it under control or rule it out.

Of course it is your decision but if you have a competent vet who you trust and is comfortable\confident with taking bloods then I would recommend having bloods done. However as you know there is no such thing as 100% it will always have risks.
 
You're right, thanks so much. I just needed an extra push this morning. Off to ring the vets now. I know its my decision but its so much easier when you get a bit of a kick up the backside from someone else x
 
I've booked her blood test for tomorrow. Sorry for all the rambling and indecisiveness! I'm glad we have a proper plan now. Thanks for all the support everyone. Lots of piggy cuddles today x
 
Hi love i think you're doing the right thing..........
Keep your chin up and let's keep all paws crossed for darling Daisy xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Velvet sends her little friend lots of encouraging brrrrrrrr's and nose kisses XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
I'm literally staring at the phone at the moment waiting for the vet to call and trying to find things to distract myself. I didn't realise until I was signing the consent form this morning that it was Friday 13th. What kind of nutcase lets their piggie go under general anaesthetic on Friday 13th? mallethead

I'll let you know as soon as I hear something and thanks so much for all the kind thoughts and support xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
louise_stocker said:
I'm literally staring at the phone at the moment waiting for the vet to call and trying to find things to distract myself. I didn't realise until I was signing the consent form this morning that it was Friday 13th. What kind of nutcase lets their piggie go under general anaesthetic on Friday 13th? mallethead

I'll let you know as soon as I hear something and thanks so much for all the kind thoughts and support xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Click to expand...

Try not to worry, I know it's eaiser said than done, I used to hate waiting while Pitch had anesthetics. I'm sure little Daisy will be ok. *hugs* x x
 
I'm not super stitious, I'm sure she will be fine!

Hopefully you have some new's soon so you can start relaxing! :), waiting on that phone call is the worse bit. X
 
Just back from the vets after picking her up. She's doing really well after the anaesthetic and is tucking in to her hay :) I'm so relieved! We just need to wait for her results now which will probably be Monday. At the moment though, I'm just glad to have her home. Thanks so much again for all the messages of support xxxxx
 
Update on Blood Test Results 18 April

Hi everyone

Just heard from the vets about the blood test results. Apparently the bloods support the presence of diabetes but there's also a sign of infection likely to be a UTI. Daisy hasn't appeared to be in any discomfort when urinating but we're getting some antibiotics to treat that today.

With regards to food and her weight, she's lost a tiny but more but isn't losing it so rapidly. The vet wants to keep trying to manage it with diet before trying medication for diabetes.

Pebble: I've tried the ella's baby food (we got the sweet potato, carrot & broccoli one) and I mushed it into the normal pellets but I'm afraid she just backed away from it when presented with it. A couple of the others had a good go at it when it was in their cage (evidence all over their chins!) but Daisy wasn't at all keen.

Just wondered if there are any other ideas regarding higher calorie foods or should I be syringing something in? She's still eating really well on her own but mainly veggies and lots and lots of hay.

I had another question regarding her cataracts. They're very white now and I was just wondering what kind of sight she is likely to have. Will she be pretty much blind now or are things just blurry?

Thanks so much x
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top