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Dental issues

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Freela

Freela

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Hi all! One of my pigs, Sundae, has been dealing with chronic dental issues. I guess, unfortunately, she now qualifies as a 'dental pig.' It has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. She first had her molars trimmed last spring, as she had a molar spur that was cutting up the side of her tongue. After this, she rapidly gained weight and was back to normal. Over the summer, she had a couple of episodes of not wanting to eat- approaching/avoiding food, making the 'pulling lips' face while eating, and some minor weight loss, plus general 'unhappy pig' moping. Both times I could still coax her to eat and she began to eat a more normal diet before I could get her to the vet (only one does teeth, and he had intermittent vacation over the summer.) In August I went on vacation for two weeks, and when I got back, in spite of my mom caring for them well, she had noticeably lost weight and was refusing a lot of her usual food. So back to the vet we went, where he examined her teeth again. At that point, he said that they were not worn evenly, but they weren't obviously overgrown either, and no spurs or damage to the mouth. At any rate, he filed them and rounded off the corners, and she perked right back up again. Now fast-forward a month, and we are in the same place again ('sad pig' look, some weight loss, pulling faces when she eats and not eating as much as usual.) I am kind of at a loss of what to do here. I know that teeth are a chronic issue (in fact, the piggy I had before her I lost due to dental issues.) It is costing me one hundred dollars every time she is put under for a dental (I have yet to find any vet in our area who will do conscious dentals. Not many vets here will even treat guinea pigs or know the first thing about them- they are largely seen as 'disposable pets' for kids.) Obviously it is hard on her to have anesthesia over and over again. Is there anything I can do to stretch the time between dental treatments? If I have to resort to syringe-feeding her, should I be feeding her Critical Care, or should I be syringe-feeding her the usual food softened with water? And at what point does she cross the line from a happy animal with a manageable chronic issue to an unhappy animal who has poor quality of life? I feel like I am flirting with that and don't know what to do. She is 3.5 years old, if that makes any difference. :0
 
So sorry to hear Sundae's dental issues seem to be worsening. Apart from giving her lots of abrasive foods to eat like grass and hay, there really isn't anything you can do to stretch out the time between dentals. Once the teeth start to overgrow and rub onto the mouth or tongue then she isn't going to eat so well as her mouth will be sore. Some of the guinea pigs at the Sanctuary have dentals every couple of weeks, and we are able to do this because we can have them done without the need for GA. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you are going to be able to find a vet to do conscious dentals. What you syringe feed her is really down to what she prefers. Some piggies love Critical Care and others aren't so keen and like mushed up nuggets. I really feel I'm not being very helpful at all here, but please keep me posted with how she is doing, and I will try my very best to help and support you. x
 
I can't add anything to what Furryfriends has already said but keep us posted and we will all d our best to help with advice as we can. Furryfriends has a lot of experience to share so you are in good hands with her :)
 
Sorry to hear of Sundaes continued problems, I too can't add any advice apart from does she have any metacam to help with the pain. Has she had a dental xray to look for any root issues?

Have you had a look on Guinealynx? I know its a US site so may have more users from over the pond and maybe some up in Canada that may know of any vets near you perhaps, long shot but you never know...

Hugs to you and love to beautiful Sundae x
 
UPDATE
While holding her and patting her, I've just noticed that she has a firm swelling on one side of her face, up high just below her ear. I am suspecting some sort of tooth root infection or abscess now. This has left me feeling pretty negative about her chances, as I lost my last piggy to a tooth root abscess. She suffered a lot before she finally passed. I will get her in to see the vet ASAP, but am not sure where I will take it if that is the diagnosis. Since I feel my last vet mismanaged things and potentially contributed to my piggy's death, can anyone tell me what is typically done to aggressively manage tooth root abscesses? Should the tooth be removed? The encapsulated abscess? My last pig had the abscess drained and left open for me to irrigate it... she was put on Baytril, which was likely nowhere near the type/amount of antibiotics that she needed. She suffered and starved and was syringe fed for two weeks before finally becoming septic and passing away. I don't want to go through that again... depending on what the vet says, it will either be aggressive treatment or a peaceful end. :(
 
It does sound like an abscess and would account for why she has suddenly had worsening dental issues. I would get the vet to take a look asap and if it is an abscess it would need lancing and draining and she would need an antibiotic such as Zithromax or marbocyl. I have dealt very successfully with many tooth root abscesses but only because I have had access to the correct antibiotic. It is also really important to keep the wound open so it can be flushed daily and any pus squeezed out. I am so sorry you are having to go through this, and really hope your vet is able to help. x
 
Sorry to hear this Freela :( I am keeping everything crossed for Sunday.

Maybe worth popping on GuineaPigCages.com forum and seeing if anyone knows of any vets near you. Again it is a US forum so I guess more of a chance of Canadian members being on there x
 
Thanks! My vet is actually quite good and does a lot of dental work... just conscious dentals seem to be a thing that isn't done here.

sport_billy said:
Sorry to hear this Freela :( I am keeping everything crossed for Sunday.

Maybe worth popping on GuineaPigCages.com forum and seeing if anyone knows of any vets near you. Again it is a US forum so I guess more of a chance of Canadian members being on there x
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Thank you. Antibiotic-wise I will definitely ask for one of these. Did any of the pigs you dealt with need teeth removed, or surgical remove of the entire abscess capsule, or is lancing and draining pretty much the standard treatment? I know that removing the entire abscess is done in other areas (my other pig, Linney, had a large abscess removed from her lower back years ago- with lancing and draining it kept recurring until it was surgically removed) but I would imagine that, given their little faces/mouths, major surgery to remove the whole abscess would be difficult.
furryfriends Excellent Adventure Sanctuary said:
It does sound like an abscess and would account for why she has suddenly had worsening dental issues. I would get the vet to take a look asap and if it is an abscess it would need lancing and draining and she would need an antibiotic such as Zithromax or marbocyl. I have dealt very successfully with many tooth root abscesses but only because I have had access to the correct antibiotic. It is also really important to keep the wound open so it can be flushed daily and any pus squeezed out. I am so sorry you are having to go through this, and really hope your vet is able to help. x
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Ina jaw, removal of the whole abcess instread of lancing and draining would probably require removal of jaw bone leaving a piggy incapable of eating independently. Treated properly with incision and drainage and the correct antibiotics (samples sent for testing will identify the most useful antibiotic as they are infection specific) then it should heal from the inside out as Debbie says.
 
MerryPip said:
Ina jaw, removal of the whole abcess instread of lancing and draining would probably require removal of jaw bone leaving a piggy incapable of eating independently. Treated properly with incision and drainage and the correct antibiotics (samples sent for testing will identify the most useful antibiotic as they are infection specific) then it should heal from the inside out as Debbie says.
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We tend to jump straight in with Zithromax, as when pus is sent off for testing it generally comes back as sterile, suggesting no antibiotic is needed, when really it is. You would need to send some of the capsule to test accurately. In every abscess we have dealt with Zithromax has been the antibiotic that has sorted it very quickly.
 
Freela said:
UPDATE
While holding her and patting her, I've just noticed that she has a firm swelling on one side of her face, up high just below her ear. I am suspecting some sort of tooth root infection or abscess now. This has left me feeling pretty negative about her chances, as I lost my last piggy to a tooth root abscess. She suffered a lot before she finally passed. I will get her in to see the vet ASAP, but am not sure where I will take it if that is the diagnosis. Since I feel my last vet mismanaged things and potentially contributed to my piggy's death, can anyone tell me what is typically done to aggressively manage tooth root abscesses? Should the tooth be removed? The encapsulated abscess? My last pig had the abscess drained and left open for me to irrigate it... she was put on Baytril, which was likely nowhere near the type/amount of antibiotics that she needed. She suffered and starved and was syringe fed for two weeks before finally becoming septic and passing away. I don't want to go through that again... depending on what the vet says, it will either be aggressive treatment or a peaceful end. :(
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I have a similar situation with Mr. Bailee Boy. One of his top incisor broke about 4 months ago and since then it grows in extremely slowly and smelly and discolored. I took him to his exotic vets office to get his teeth trimmed and she advised me that at his next 4 month trim that she will remove the entire tooth (basically doing a root canal tooth extraction). This will set me back about $300, but its a one shot deal. After this is done he will no longer have issues. At the moment until he returns for a dental trim I take a soft bristle tooth brush and "gently" brush (one or two strokes) to clean off any food particles and plaque build-up. Then his exotic vet recommended me to dip a cotton swab (Q-TIP) in iodine and gently apply it to the tooth and area around the tooth. IT WORKS! My vet ONLY deals with exotic pets so I trust her judgement completely!
 
Good luck Freela, thinking of you both x
 
So the vet gave Sundae a good once-over, and agreed that she has an abscess. (He also gave me kudos for my 'home diagnosis' and told me I should have been a vet! LOL!) He felt that the best course to take was to hit her hard with antibiotics (I can't remember the name, but it's the same one that Linney, my other pig, was given when she had a nasty abscess on her back.) She will be dropped off on Monday morning to have the abscess lanced, drained, injected with antibiotics, and a drain placed so I can keep flushing it at home. He thought that was probably the best option. So I have her home with me over the weekend. She is still eating some easier to eat/softer foods, like spring mix, cucumbers, and apples without the skin, and I am also syringing her critical care (which she is not too thrilled about.) I will drop her off Monday morning for her operation. I'm quite anxious about it because this is all so reminiscent of when we lost Frenzy, but I am not going to give up on her yet. I told the kids that the vet and the family will do everything we can for her, and she will have to be a trooper and do the rest. Sigh... I feel like I can deal with things, but I know how upset my kids will be if this doesn't go well, and that makes me stress out more because it's awful to lose a pet and awful to see your kids upset. I'll have my fingers crossed for her, at any rate, and appreciate any good vibes for Monday.

Incidentally, what is the best thing for me to flush the wound with when she gets home? I'll ask the vet as well, but it would be good if I could stock up beforehand. I have hydrogen peroxide and saline and basics like that, but what would be the best thing to use?
 
All the best for Sundae, I am sure Debbie will be able to advise further, so keep an eye on the thread x
 
Saline or cooled boiled water are all you need for flushing. I am dealing with a piggy with an abscess at the moment for one of my volunteers. The flat cottonwool pads that are used for removing makeup are the best for cleaning an abscess. I moisten one and then use it to gently squeeze. It is important to keep the wound open which means pulling off any scab that starts to form. You will notice that you get less and less pus out as it heals from the inside outwards. xx
 
Thanks. I dropped her off this morning and now am waiting for the vet's office to call with an update. It is nerve wracking! Hopefully the op goes well, and I'm sure to have questions after she is home, so I really appreciate everyone's input!
 
She's home! She looks a mess (face half shaved, big scalpel poke in her cheek, all blood and gunk in her fur) but she is doing really well- she is eating on her own (much more that she was pre-op) and her body posture has changed for the better... she isn't all 'puffed' anymore. The vet suggested I leave it alone for today and start irrigating it tomorrow. Right now there is some antibiotic gel in there. I'll keep you posted, but am much relieved that she is eating. My other pig who passed away from a massive dental abscess never went back to eating on her own after her face was lanced and drained. She had to be syringe fed and ultimately just wouldn't even chew and swallow from the syringe anymore, and that was it. So I'm relieved that she is eating on her own!
 
So Sundae is continuing to do well- she is eating a ton and seems a lot more comfortable- she is back to wheeking for food and being bright and bouncy! I hadn't realized how subdued she was until she was back to more like her normal self. It's great to see!

So just a question: I tried irrigating the wound today with sterile saline and a dental irrigation syringe. The incision was starting to scab, so I managed to moisten that until it separated, and and I managed to get the tip of the syringe inside the pocket and rinse it a few times, and then let the fluid drain back out through the opening. She seemed to take it really well, she seemed more upset that she got a little wet than anything else! But I really didn't get any pus out (although I didn't squeeze- I just stroked down towards the opening, which did rinse the saline back out.) Does that mean that there really wasn't anything to rinse out, or am I not being aggressive enough? I don't want to make her more sore or hurt her, but I also don't want the pocket to fill back up because I'm not doing enough. Thanks in advance for any help!
 
I find using the flat cotton wool pads (the make up remover type ones) work really well. I moisten it and then give the wound a really good scrub, and squeeze around it. You can generally get a lot of pus out in this way. You do have to be fairly aggressive. It sounds like she's doing really well. Lovely news xx
 
Thanks! I still didn't get any real pus out tonight. She has a follow-up tomorrow at the vet's, so we'll see what they say. It's great to see her happy- I haven't seen her this excitable for awhile!
 
Freela said:
Thanks! I still didn't get any real pus out tonight. She has a follow-up tomorrow at the vet's, so we'll see what they say. It's great to see her happy- I haven't seen her this excitable for awhile!
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Hopefully there isn't much pus there. I am not getting much pus out of the jaw abscess on the piggy I am currently looking after and was quite concerned, but when we saw Simon a few days ago he said there wasn't much there at all. It sounds like Sundae's abscess had been brewing for a while, and now the pressure of it has gone she is feeling very much better.
 
We are home from our vet check- everything went great! With much squeezing, the vet was only able to express a tiny amount of blood and pus. She said that the wound is very clean, this is a good sign, and to carry on with the antibiotics and wound irrigation. I asked to do a weight check- last Friday her weight was only 1 lb 13 oz (and she is normally around 2 lb 4 oz to 2 lb 9 oz so it was a significant loss of weight!) She had her drainage on Monday and is already back up to 1 lb 15 oz, so she is headed in the right direction. She is still happy, bouncy, eating well, and tolerating all the meds and irrigation like a trooper. We will have another check at the vet's in a week's time. In addition, several of the office staff told me what a sweet piggy she is (I think she got some post-op snuggles on Monday), so we left feeling pleased with the whole appointment.
 
I managed to get a bit of pus out of the wound tonight... I think the vet squeezing helped to move some down. She was not terribly happy with me! How do you get them to sit still for it? She was trying to run like hell, even when I tried to bundle her up in a towel!
 
Freela said:
I managed to get a bit of pus out of the wound tonight... I think the vet squeezing helped to move some down. She was not terribly happy with me! How do you get them to sit still for it? She was trying to run like hell, even when I tried to bundle her up in a towel!
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Because I frequently deal with guinea pigs needing meds or wounds attending to, I have got used to just holding them very firmly. I think animals can pick up on the fact that their owner is feeling worried or nervous about what they need to do and it makes them more difficult to deal with. I also think it is easier to deal with someone else's pet than with your own. For example as part of my pet care job I frequently medicate cats and can tablet even the most difficult one. However, I struggle so much to give my own cat any meds. You are clearly doing a wonderful job with Sundae so just carry on doing what you are doing, as it seems to be working wonders. x
 
Just a quick Sundae update... after several months of on-and-off dental issues, she developed a large abscess along the jawline. It was lanced and drained just before Halloween, and since then it has been antibiotics/expressing pus/irrigation of the wound. She just had another follow-up at the vet's today and he was very pleased with her progress- there doesn't seem to be any more pus, and we are now a go to let the wound heal with just gentle irrigation to ensure that it stays clean. One thing that the vet said is that the edges of the wound have healed under and look quite clean- he said if the edges do not seal, we may be looking at abrading the edges to make them rawer and then putting in a suture or two to hold the skin together. Because the edges have healed open, he said her body may not know that she has a hole there any longer. But I am quite relieved that she is doing well, happy, gaining weight back, and acting like her usual sweet self and not quiet or uncomfortable. Fingers crossed that things continue to go well. My vet said that I'm much better at wound care than most of the owners he deals with- he said that most don't want to get their hands dirty and that her wound has cleaned up really nicely because of it- made me proud! The things we do for our piggies!
 
Love to Sundae, thanks for the update Freela.

Nice to see you back on online :)
 
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