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Desperate advice and help needed!

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LydiaMinx

LydiaMinx

Teenage Guinea Pig
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I bought Badger to give my current GP Boris some company, and I noticed that the woman who I bought him off was a little dirty, so upon getting him home I checked him for lice and sprayed him with Johnsons Insecticidal Spray to kill anything that he may have that I had missed. ( I know, I did't quaratine, I've leart my lesson!)

However, as my previous forum posts suggest I discovered Running lice on Badger so began treatment on them both and they were clear within 2 weeks. Now, on Saturday, I discovered a bald crusty patch with some blood next to Badgers mouth. I don't remember it being there the previous day, so it sprung up quickly.

After seeing this, I made an appointment at the vets for both, however it had worsened by the afternoon and the patch was larger with an open bloody wound, so I took them up a hour later. Boris also had a small scab on his nose which I pointed out to the vet. He said he could not see 'Fur Lice' on them, so he ruled that out, however he gave no indication to whether it was parasitic (mainly mites) or fungal. He said the tests were often inaccurate and expensive, and suggested going straight for treatment for both. So, £94 down we left the vet with Xeno 450 and Itrafungol for both Pigs. I applied the Xeno the same afteroon and started the Itrafungol immediately.

Since starting the treatment the patch on Badgers face has looked calmer and not so raw, there's been no more blood, however more fur is being lost from that area, and the small scab on Boris's nose is now surrounded by crusty skin, and the skin beneath looks red. I've bathed them both today with Nizoral incase it is fungal, however I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle as in the bath I noticed dty crusty skin on Badgers foot, that also had tiny scabs.

I cannot afford to go to the vets again, especially if it's to recieve treatment that isn't working. Has anyone had an experience like this and if so what was the culprit, parasites or fungal? I feel hopeless as nothing I'm doing is working and I feel very bad for not quaratining!

Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
Please do not blame yourself for not Quarratining! I have never done it and have been lucky, but for you, it is a lesson learnt.

Maybe we can suggest a more Savvy vet to you if you give us your location?

I would suggest 2 - 3 nizoral baths a week, not a full on bath but wet the effected patches, bath with nizoral, leave for a few mins then rinse thoroughly, also apply sudocream. (this is what i have always done and it has worked effectively) it can take time and patience, but you will get there.

Have you deep cleaned the cage and thrown away any wooden toys? Fungal spores and mites will stick to them so they need to be thrown, anything plastic can just be thoroughly washed in hot water. Any fleece will need to be washed on a 90degree wash to kill anything. The cage should be scrubbed with something like f10.

Please dont give up or feel bad, were all here for you and many of us have been in the same situation.

xx
 
If the patches are getting bigger, you are very likely dealing with ringworm, a fungal problem that easily transmits across species (inlcuding other pets and humans). It has an incubation period between 10-14 days and starts typically in the face, often with bloody patches, typically surrounded by a pink/dark ring (hence its name).
Please do not treat on guess and look for a vet that has good experience with guinea pigs (either an exotics vet or a general vet that is prepared to contact a specialist). If it turns out to be ringworm, you will need to treat both piggies and use good hygiene for everything they come in contact with (including yourself!), as well as a fungicidal disinfectant like F10. Ringworm is very common in neglected or stressed out piggies (including shop piggies).

Here is information about fungal problems:
http://www.guinealynx.info/fungus.html
http://gorgeousguineas.com/indentification.html
http://gorgeousguineas.com/photogallery.html
 
If the patches are getting bigger, you are very likely dealing with ringworm, a fungal problem that easily transmits across species (inlcuding other pets and humans). It has an incubation period between 10-14 days and starts typically in the face, often with bloody patches, typically surrounded by a pink/dark ring (hence its name).

Please do not treat just on guess and look for a vet that has good experience with guinea pigs (either an exotics vet or a general vet that is prepared to contact a specialist). If it turns out to be ringworm, you will need to treat both piggies and use good hygiene for everything they come in contact with (including yourself!), as well as a fungicidal disinfectant like F10. Ringworm is very common in neglected or stressed out piggies (including shop piggies).

Here is information about fungal problems:
http://www.guinealynx.info/fungus.html
http://gorgeousguineas.com/indentification.html
http://gorgeousguineas.com/photogallery.html
 
If it does turn out to be ringworm or another type of fungal then it is good that you have been given Itrafungol as it is the best thing for it. I would also suggest a round of Imaverol dips for both pigs after bathing in the Nizoral. Is it possible to post any photos?

Also it is very common for pigs to get both fungal and mites at the same time as their immune systems are compromised.
 
The bald patch on Badger has increased in size since beginning with the Itrafungol, and the scab on Boris's nose has turned into red balding skin, so I'm assuming I am dealing with Ringworm, as the woman who bred Badger kept them in pretty poor conditions, so I wouldn't be surprised if he'd carried it since birth.

Here's my photobucket account with the photos of them on, I couldn't get the links on here to work, sorry!

http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/L...0130703-01956_zpsf3dc0dcc.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

Do the pictures ring any bells with anyone?
 
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Got the links to the pictures now, for easier viewing

Badgers original sore, before the vets
http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/L...0130629-01930_zpsff69c967.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

His sore today, after 4 days of Itrafungol and one Xeno 450 and a Nizoral soak. It looks bigger but less sore to me.
http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/L...0130703-01957_zps8896878a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

Badgers crusty foot after the bath, so some skin had come away during the soak
http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/L...0130703-01958_zpsbb8db162.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Boris's newly developed bald sore patch, only a very small scab had been there on Saturday, this developed last night/this morning.
http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/L...0130703-01956_zpsf3dc0dcc.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3


Boris also has a scab on his neck, and on the inside of his right leg, does anyone else think these are connected?

Thanks for any info given following the pictures! You've helped me a lot so far, probably more then the useless vet mallethead

Do the pictures ring any bells with anyone? (sorry for double post!)
 
That does look like it could be ringworm but I have never seen it in the flesh so to speak. The other option is that it is another type of fungal linked to Candida in the gut but they do need a proper diagnosis by a vet if possible. I would say that the vet you saw was knowledgeable enough to prescribe Itrafungol though. I have recently volunteered at a clinic (at a vets in Broxbourne) run by a lady who is a real expert on all things fungal related so if you need anymore information I am happy to chat and can ask for her advice too if needed. She has helped me with my own pigs who have all had problems with Candida. This would not replace veterinary advice though. You don't have enough posts to pm yet on here but I can help by email if you are able to post your address?

The other thing I would say is that for mites, spot on is not the best route to go down, injections by the vet are the most succesful in treating mites or Ivermectin can also be given orally (by a vet).
 
I will return them both to the vet's if neither of the treatments work (got about a week and a half of Itrafungol left), and thank you for the offer! I may have to take you up on that if there's no profound improvement :)

I've also started applying Canesten to the bald areas today, hopefully this will help. Would Itrafungol, Nizoral baths and Canesten be enough to shift the Ringworm/fungal infection?

On another related topic, is bleach and water the best way to go to treat any wood in the cage? Badger loves his wooden hut (the roof, his favourite place to sleep) so I want to avoid binning it, if not, what's the best method to treat it for spores?

Thanks for all the help so far guys!
 
Use F10 disinfectant for cage cleaning and I cant recommend speaking to Helen enough she really knows her stuff and both her and her friend who runs a clinic at a vets have gave us great advice in the past.

F10 can be bought at many places online http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/f10-...LA&utm_content=sRxW8sVnY|dt_pcrid_24645831011 it used by lots of people on here and rescues.

Hope you can get to the bottom of things and get your piggies all sorted and well soon
 
I really recommend F10 too and I would also invest in their handgel or handwash to use between handling anything piggy related.

Canesten is not the best thing to use as it is not a good idea to cover the patches in anything as this can make the area heat up and can make it worse. I would suggest getting some Imaverol online and carrying out weekly dips after the Nizoral where you cover the whole pig in it. This can also be applied to the areas as a diluted solution between dips if needed. I can give you details on where to get it, the ratios for diluting and how to do it if needed. If you email me at [email protected], I don't use this account that much but can then give you my personal email address after.

The Itrafungol should be helping and it sounds to me like it is already. The vet the clinic is run at suggests that it is given in 3 weekly rounds, ie. one week on, one week off for a total of 3 times and at a dose of 0.5ml twice a day. This doesn't sound like what your vet has suggested though. Apparently thoughts on Itrafungol in the verterinery world have changed recently and this new treatment regime is more in line with what would be given to a cat.
 
helen105281 said:
I really recommend F10 too and I would also invest in their handgel or handwash to use between handling anything piggy related.

Canesten is not the best thing to use as it is not a good idea to cover the patches in anything as this can make the area heat up and can make it worse. I would suggest getting some Imaverol online and carrying out weekly dips after the Nizoral where you cover the whole pig in it. This can also be applied to the areas as a diluted solution between dips if needed. I can give you details on where to get it, the ratios for diluting and how to do it if needed. If you email me at [email protected], I don't use this account that much but can then give you my personal email address after.

The Itrafungol should be helping and it sounds to me like it is already. The vet the clinic is run at suggests that it is given in 3 weekly rounds, ie. one week on, one week off for a total of 3 times and at a dose of 0.5ml twice a day. This doesn't sound like what your vet has suggested though. Apparently thoughts on Itrafungol in the verterinery world have changed recently and this new treatment regime is more in line with what would be given to a cat.
Click to expand...

I will be buying F10 along with Imaverol when I'm paid (this Friday), thank you so much for the advice so far. Although ringworm is so commo it is quite an overwhelming issue to deal with (or so I'm finding) and to have support and advice is really nice.

Helen, my vet prescribed the Itrafungol at 0.58ml a day for Boris and 0.35ml a day for Badger and has instructed 14 days with no gaps, is this still going to be effective? There's only just enough in each bottle for this course so I hope it will be!

Regarding the Imaverol, it says that animal information is required and only licensed for use on Cattle, Horses and Dogs, what should I do about this?

I will be using this website to buy it - http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/imave...ontent=1756&gclid=CL-Cv_e8m7gCFdDJtAodeEEACg#

Again, thank you so much for the help. You don't know how much it's reassured me, I've been in a constant flap since last Saturday!
 
The itrafungol should hopefully do the trick for you. My vet put Ceri on it when she struggled to beat ringworm with the regular imaverol treatment due to problems with an irregular heart beat, and it worked beautifully for her!

Re. imaverol - you have to fill out that form (they will sell to people with guinea pigs) and then use the imaverol at the recommended dilution (1 : 50). I syringe the solution directly onto the skin, including between the hairs around the affected area for best results, as the fungal at the hair roots is the hardest to get to. That is why ringworm always gets worse before it gets better - all the infected hair needs to come out before you are past the acute stage.

It is quite daunting indeed! I went through it when I had 16 piggies, and it was a true nightmare (thankfully, only 2 piggies came actually down with it, so it was well worth the effort), but the sheer logistics of washing all the bathing towels on top of the fleeces and soft furnishings at high temperatures was quite a challenge!
 
it does very much look like ringworm but would recommend seeking a vets proper diagnosis as there could be more going on that just those patches in the photos.

Ringworm is highly contageous and can reinfect so you need to treat each pig, and the pen/home where they are for it completely, and it takes weeks to go with treatment, it is not a one treatment works and its done problem, you will be using treatments and cleaning the cage out often till its completely gone.
 
Wiebke has answered on the Imaverol. Re the Itrafungol it will be effective on the regime he has given you and I know other vets use the same course. However on the regime I mentioned I think they have found it has less chance if coming back. I would speak to your vet about it. Glad to have helped a bit.
 
Further to my post above I have double checked the Itrafungol regimen with the lady that runs the clinics. Basically she was asked about the regmen to follow for Itrafungol and checked with the 2 vets who assist at the clinic, they said they could not see why the regimen for pigs should be different to cats and dogs. Karen then followed this up with an enquiry to the company who hold licence for Itrafungol who confirmed that because of the way the active ingredient in Itrafungol (Itraconazole) works, the Itraconazole is still present in the skin in the week off and so will continue to work in this time. Hope that helps. Am sure the vet she works with would be happy to speak to your vet, I know he has done so in the past.
 
Wiebke said:
The itrafungol should hopefully do the trick for you. My vet put Ceri on it when she struggled to beat ringworm with the regular imaverol treatment due to problems with an irregular heart beat, and it worked beautifully for her!

Re. imaverol - you have to fill out that form (they will sell to people with guinea pigs) and then use the imaverol at the recommended dilution (1 : 50). I syringe the solution directly onto the skin, including between the hairs around the affected area for best results, as the fungal at the hair roots is the hardest to get to. That is why ringworm always gets worse before it gets better - all the infected hair needs to come out before you are past the acute stage.

It is quite daunting indeed! I went through it when I had 16 piggies, and it was a true nightmare (thankfully, only 2 piggies came actually down with it, so it was well worth the effort), but the sheer logistics of washing all the bathing towels on top of the fleeces and soft furnishings at high temperatures was quite a challenge!
Click to expand...

That's good to hear, as the patch on Boris's nose has increased in size but it hasn't been bleeding or looking scabby, so that's a big relief! I can't wait to buy the Imaverol and get started with that too, want to start really making a dent this infection!

Pepperdog said:
it does very much look like ringworm but would recommend seeking a vets proper diagnosis as there could be more going on that just those patches in the photos.

Ringworm is highly contageous and can reinfect so you need to treat each pig, and the pen/home where they are for it completely, and it takes weeks to go with treatment, it is not a one treatment works and its done problem, you will be using treatments and cleaning the cage out often till its completely gone.
Click to expand...

Both are already being treated (thank god) and the vet seemed confused as to what it may be, but I'm happy he prescribed the Itrafungol!

helen105281 said:
Further to my post above I have double checked the Itrafungol regimen with the lady that runs the clinics. Basically she was asked about the regmen to follow for Itrafungol and checked with the 2 vets who assist at the clinic, they said they could not see why the regimen for pigs should be different to cats and dogs. Karen then followed this up with an enquiry to the company who hold licence for Itrafungol who confirmed that because of the way the active ingredient in Itrafungol (Itraconazole) works, the Itraconazole is still present in the skin in the week off and so will continue to work in this time. Hope that helps. Am sure the vet she works with would be happy to speak to your vet, I know he has done so in the past.
Click to expand...

I may follow your method then, if it is more effective (and more cost efficient!) I really appreciate you doing all this extra research, it's been so helpful and put my mind at ease knowing there's more to do then my vet already suggested!


In regards to the Imaverol, is it effective against all fungal infections or soley ringworm?
 
Happy to help.

Imaverol is effective against all types of fungal, I have not had ringworm in my pigs (yet!) but have treated other fungal symptoms with it effectively. All my fungal issues have been linked to Candida.

I would check with your vet before changing the Itrafungol regime but hopefully they can be persuaded to switch. It would basically be 7 days on 7 days off for at least 2 rounds, ideally 3, so 6 weeks in total but 3 of those weeks you would not give the Itrafungol. The dose I have always used is 0.5ml twice a day and most of my pigs are around 1200g but again you would need your vet to agree to this. I have treated every single one of my pigs with Itrafungol (earlier this year after 2 deaths on the same day due to mycosis amongst the herd) and it worked and they are all now in remission. We even treated those without symptoms (were in another room too) as a precaution and have had no ill effects.
 
I will call my vet tomorrow and ask about this as it sounds more effective then my current regime. Thank you for the advice and extra research thus far, it's been a huge help. I will update on the vet's tomorrow :)
 
I called my vets, he said as long as I was happy to change the plan and take responsibility for the change he saw no issue why not, so I'm re-starting the Itrafungol on Saturday ad fingers crossed it does the job.

I have another question regarding the Imaverol, do you need to prepare a new batch for each pig? So if I were to prepare one solution to use could it be used for both?
 
That's brilliant news, am so pleased. Do you have enough Itrafungol for the 3 rounds at the new doses? You say you are going to restart on Saturday, had they already had a weeks break? Or are you starting again from scratch on the new doses?

For the Imaverol ideally it should be a new batch for each pig, I was once helping a lady bath her 19 pigs and we had to limit it to one jug of Imaverol per 3 pigs just to get through the number but as you only have 2 it is best to do a new batch for each pig. I would also do the full mixture for each pig, I mix it at 10ml Imaverol to 2 pints of water and apply liberally.
 
The vet didn't change the doses, so it's still 0.58ml a day for Boris and 0.35ml a day for Badger (as he is only 12 weeks) but he gave me permission to change the length (one week on, one week off). I've got enough for one more week on, so I will effectively had a months worth of treatment.

I'm starting again on Saturday as that would be two weeks from when I first had them seen by the vet, so starting the week back on then to keep things easy to remember :)) I've given them a week off since Saturday gone, so that would be the correct pattern I need to follow and it stops me getting confused about dates :)

And that's brilliant, I can't wait to start with the Imaverol! Should I use a syrine or toothbrush to apply to the patches on the face?
 
Ok that makes sense, if the vet won't change the doses you can't do any more than you are doing. For the Imaverol I use a sponge and then throw it away after, I buy cheap 19p ones from Wilkos and swipe it all over them and then dunk the whole pig in a bowl of the solution as it needs to cover the entire pig not just the affected areas. This will include inside all orifices as much as possible. If you are worried about getting water up their nose you can cover their nostrils with your finger for the second or so it takes to dunk.
 
As you are dealing with ringworm I would wear disposable gloves when bathing.
 
I also use disposable gloves. Try different methods and find out which way works best for you to get the imaverol down between the hairs.
 
Bought some gloves in preperation (I'm looking forward to this like it's Christmas :)) ) After dipping each of them and getting it to the roots, do you rise the Imaverol off or leave them to dry with it on? And how often should I dip to totally kill any infection and spores?
 
LydiaMinx said:
Bought some gloves in preperation (I'm looking forward to this like it's Christmas :)) ) After dipping each of them and getting it to the roots, do you rise the Imaverol off or leave them to dry with it on? And how often should I dip to totally kill any infection and spores?
Click to expand...

It is once a week for 4 weeks and you need to leave on and not rinse off. Used to be every 3 days or so but that has changed. You can apply topically in between baths too but I need to look up the ratio so shout if you need it.
 
The Imaverol arrived yesterday and I treated them straight away - I can already see an improvement! Thanks for all the help and advice everyone, it was very much appreciated and helped my boys recover! Thank you!
 
thanks for the update, please let us know how they get on. Lots of healing vibes their way.
 
Thank you for the update, am pleased it seems to be working.
 
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