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diarrhea on a large scale

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Connie said:
(i know this is an awfull question, and i hope knowone minds me asking)

How soft is soft? soft like you could squeze it and it would give but not liqify,(so not hard like normal poo but still fully formed, same colour/size,)

Or soft like falling appart and barely in shape?
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like a saussage shape abotu 3 inches long.. like if i touched it it would disintergrate in to total mush..
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Firtly I would just like to stress that zantac should not be given to piggies without authorisation and approval from a vet as it is currently not licensed for piggies (thankfully more vets are chossing to use it or its equivalent ranitidine) and could do more harm than good in the wrong circumstances. For that reason I don;t post the formula for preparing the tablets publicly as I don't believe a drug of this kind should be self-medicated. There is a veterinary oral suspension you can get from your vet on prescription.

However on the general question of tablets.....With all my tablets I get from the vet (frusemide, fortekor, prednisone, ranitidine)...and also my Vit C tablets.... I grind them up in a pestle and mortar and mix them with an appropriate volume of water to make a solution of known concentration and then calculate the correct dose from there (I've had years of experience making up solutions as a research scientist but nevertheless I still always check my workings with the vet first for any prescription drugs). I store the solution in the fridge for max 3 days and make sure a sterile syringe is used each time..that way I don;t have to cut up small tablets, the dosing is more accurate and the wastage is cut down. Obviously it is also important to weigh piggies each time you give them meds as they can go up or down in weight quite a lot when they are ill and you may need to adjust the dose accordingly to ensure they get the correct mg/kg.

HTH
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:/

Thankyou very much, I'm sorry to invade your thread just my piggy has had slightly soft poo today )like it will quish a little if put under a little pressure unlike breaking in half as they usually do) He will be having a trip to the vets tomorrow i just wanted to make sure it wasnt something i needed to deal with this very second! (i have taken him off fresh fruit and veg)
 
Connie said:
Thankyou very much, I'm sorry to invade your thread just my piggy has had slightly soft poo today )like it will quish a little if put under a little pressure unlike breaking in half as they usually do) He will be having a trip to the vets tomorrow i just wanted to make sure it wasnt something i needed to deal with this very second! (i have taken him off fresh fruit and veg)
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that could just be that hes had too much watery foodie noms...
keep him on the dry stuff, hay and pellets...
and he should be fine... no the runny poo was like propper slop...
:)>>>
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Pebble said:
Firtly I would just like to stress that zantac should not be given to piggies without authorisation and approval from a vet as it is currently not licensed for piggies (thankfully more vets are chossing to use it or its equivalent ranitidine) and could do more harm than good in the wrong circumstances. For that reason I don;t post the formula for preparing the tablets publicly as I don't believe a drug of this kind should be self-medicated. There is a veterinary oral suspension you can get from your vet on prescription.

However on the general question of tablets.....With all my tablets I get from the vet (frusemide, fortekor, prednisone, ranitidine)...and also my Vit C tablets.... I grind them up in a pestle and mortar and mix them with an appropriate volume of water to make a solution of known concentration and then calculate the correct dose from there (I've had years of experience making up solutions as a research scientist but nevertheless I still always check my workings with the vet first for any prescription drugs). I store the solution in the fridge for max 3 days and make sure a sterile syringe is used each time..that way I don;t have to cut up small tablets, the dosing is more accurate and the wastage is cut down. Obviously it is also important to weigh piggies each time you give them meds as they can go up or down in weight quite a lot when they are ill and you may need to adjust the dose accordingly to ensure they get the correct mg/kg.

HTH
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Thanks Pebble yes it does. I would never consider medicating them myself, but am interested in what circumstances the vet could prescribe Zantac & to know if they were giving me the right dose for my piggy (if you see what I mean). I know you said once it gets the gut moving which is interesting as I have been prescribed it in the past for myself for excess stomach acid but it didn't have that effect on me rolleyes

If there is anything that would help avoid losing a piggy then I would be prepared to badger the vet for it :)
 
claremw92 said:
with mabel there was blood in the diarrohea...
with the others it was more like long saussages of very soft poo... was very close to being runny...
with mabel it was a massive puddle of it... and it smelled disgusting and very offensive...
where as with the otheres there wasnt really a smell...
no changes in anyone when they got the runs... still eating drinking and running round like normal...one had like noisy farts...(?) but she recovered in just over 24 hours... where mabel was litterally collapsed in her own excrement...
no extreme weight losses... most one pig lost was 22g..... so nothing really...
no one is having any fresh veg.... they are having there vit. c. topped up...
mabel is the only one to have the runs today... but I'm going to go check on everyone now...
I'm just worried this is going to escelate out of controll.... and with another 16 pigs in close proximity I'm freeking out at how extreme this could get...
thanks...
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Will be keeping fingers crossed for you that the others get better quickly :)
 
claremw92 said:
with mabel there was blood in the diarrohea...
with the others it was more like long saussages of very soft poo... was very close to being runny...
with mabel it was a massive puddle of it... and it smelled disgusting and very offensive...
where as with the otheres there wasnt really a smell...
no changes in anyone when they got the runs... still eating drinking and running round like normal...one had like noisy farts...(?) but she recovered in just over 24 hours... where mabel was litterally collapsed in her own excrement...
no extreme weight losses... most one pig lost was 22g..... so nothing really...
no one is having any fresh veg.... they are having there vit. c. topped up...
mabel is the only one to have the runs today... but I'm going to go check on everyone now...
I'm just worried this is going to escelate out of controll.... and with another 16 pigs in close proximity I'm freeking out at how extreme this could get...
thanks...
x
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Long mushy sausages indicates a GI distrubance but could be down to food/diet, not necessarily infection...so given that Mabel is the only one who has had blood and foul smelling faeces it "could" be that only she has contracted an actual infection...or that she ingested enough of the bugs to cause a fatal infection whereas the rest didn;t and have been able to fight it off. Mabel's symptoms however definitely would indicate a bacterial infection of sorts is most likely in her case given the blood..and Campylobacter needs to be added to the list of suspects.

Go back to the day the first piggie had the first signs....what had they had to eat 18-20 hours previously? How quickly did other piggies develop the symptoms...was it within a further 6 hour period or has it been over several days? if it is over several days - what have they each been eating 18-20 hours prior to the diarrhoea showing? In particular what had Mabel been eating?Given the fact it is not spreading between all cage mates but randomly selecting various piggies then hay or other common foodstuff (veg from a fridge that also contained raw chicken, contamination of dried food with mouse faeces/urine?) would be a likely source.

HTH
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Poppy'sMum said:
Thanks Pebble yes it does. I would never consider medicating them myself, but am interested in what circumstances the vet could prescribe Zantac & to know if they were giving me the right dose for my piggy (if you see what I mean). I know you said once it gets the gut moving which is interesting as I have been prescribed it in the past for myself for excess stomach acid but it didn't have that effect on me rolleyes

If there is anything that would help avoid losing a piggy then I would be prepared to badger the vet for it :)
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In humans zantac/ranitidin is used as an ant-acid however vets started using it first in dogs as it appears to act as a prokinetic on the hind gut (stimulates peristaltic motion in the colon). This is in contrast to the other gut stimulant used in piggies, metoclopromide, which stimulates the small intestine or fore gut. (My Willow was on both for the first two weeks). Vets are now considering that ranitidine is much better for piggies than metoclopromide when they have gut problems...which can be manifested as squishy poos (not full blown diarrhoea which could have a bacterial cause) or constipation (small dry or no poos) or alternating between the two. Metoclopromide can still be used and is a very useful way of kick starting a competely static gut but for longer term use or less serious symptoms , ranitidine is considered more effective with less side effects.


Doses can vary depending upon the cirumstances - 2mg/kg twice daily is the oft-quoted maintenance dose but higher doses can be given for short periods of time. If the need arises then Pm me for further info.
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Pebble said:
Long mushy sausages indicates a GI distrubance but could be down to food/diet, not necessarily infection...so given that Mabel is the only one who has had blood and foul smelling faeces it "could" be that only she has contracted an actual infection...or that she ingested enough of the bugs to cause a fatal infection whereas the rest didn;t and have been able to fight it off. Mabel's symptoms however definitely would indicate a bacterial infection of sorts is most likely in her case given the blood..and Campylobacter needs to be added to the list of suspects.

Go back to the day the first piggie had the first signs....what had they had to eat 18-20 hours previously? How quickly did other piggies develop the symptoms...was it within a further 6 hour period or has it been over several days? if it is over several days - what have they each been eating 18-20 hours prior to the diarrhoea showing? In particular what had Mabel been eating?Given the fact it is not spreading between all cage mates but randomly selecting various piggies then hay or other common foodstuff (veg from a fridge that also contained raw chicken, contamination of dried food with mouse faeces/urine?) would be a likely source.

HTH
x
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day one- indoor 6 mpiggies were on the grass 8am... one nursing adult female approx. 3 years... and two 3 week old babies...
3 sows about 12 weeks of age...

later that evening they began to have the runs approx. 10pm... again not too serious...
was quickly treated and stopped...

day 2- 2 outdoor piggies, pare of bores approx. 1 year
were fed just hay and pellets... runs began abotu midday... but about 10pm had stopped...

day 3- 2 outdoor piggies, 2 sows out of the herd, one 4 months, one 3 years
fed just pellets and hay... treated with AC etc. and dried up within 12 hours...

today- fed the pigs pellets and hay, mabel was normal at 9:30 am when i fed everyone...
i came home from work at 1:30pm and she was collapsed, she passed at 9:30pm

no fresh food has been given as i feed them day on day off on fresh stuff and day one was the day off... and then didnt feed anyone any fresh stuff becuase of the tummy upsets... all have been on the dry stuff... the hay is kept in my house ina large plastic storage box and the pellets in another large tub with lid... no possible cross contamination of anything...

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what they had the day before all of that was a small amount of carrot and some celery and pepper...
so nothing new... all this food was fresh and kept at the top of the fridge etc.
i always wash my hands before touching food... been a deep engraved habbit since i worked in a kitchen...
but also just to add....
the rabbit had free range of the garden every day... so surely the amount of grass she digests it would have affected her if it was something to do with that...(?)
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also...
the water source hasnt changed...
bottles are cleaned regualy....
as are food bowls...
i havent changed the washing powder i use to wash the vetbed...
the only thing that has changed is that yesterday they were moved in to the shed with the new built in hutches... but they havent been treated with anything that could upset little nibblers...
hmmm...
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Oh heck Claire i've just read thru this......... you said you'd had the day's from hell.....you sure have love 8...8...8...
I'm hoping that the tests on their fecal samples will give you some direction, trouble is in the meantime!

RIP Mabel 8...8...8...

HEALING WHEEEEEEEEEEEEKY LOVES TO ALL THE PIGGLIES FROM VELVET ONYX AND GLYNIS XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

AND HUGE HUGS FOR YOU XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
Glynis said:
Oh heck Claire i've just read thru this......... you said you'd had the day's from hell.....you sure have love 8...8...8...
I'm hoping that the tests on their fecal samples will give you some direction, trouble is in the meantime!

RIP Mabel 8...8...8...

HEALING WHEEEEEEEEEEEEKY LOVES TO ALL THE PIGGLIES FROM VELVET ONYX AND GLYNIS XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

AND HUGE HUGS FOR YOU XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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x>>
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You said earlier on in the thread that you have to lads holiday boarding with you...how long have they been with you? It could be that they have brought something in which they are immune to, but has knocked your piggies for six.
 
CandyFloss said:
Oh just saw this - what an awful worrying time. How are the piggies this morning ?
So sorry to hear about Mabel :(
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all the piggies are well today... touch wood we are through this...
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Lizzie said:
You said earlier on in the thread that you have to lads holiday boarding with you...how long have they been with you? It could be that they have brought something in which they are immune to, but has knocked your piggies for six.
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the boys ive got boarding are seperate from my lot... and were on quarantine for 2 weeks... e.g. i fed them and handled them after i'd done all my lot...
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Hi Clare
Was wondering how things are with your piggies and whether the results from the PM/cultures have comeback yet?

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