Did I Do The Right Thing?

[lexi468]

Hey everybody!
So Midnight just had his third surgery, second bladder stone removal. The surgery went well, although after his temp dropped and I had to bring him back in to have it brought up. He had the surgery this morning, and still seems pretty lethargic. I'm in the US, so it's been about 14 hours since surgery. He's never had pain management before, and now he does, so I'm wondering if this could be why he's acting a bit differently? Also, he's not eating a lot. I'm in there every twenty minutes or so stimulating him to eat. He'll eat a lot of veggies, but not so much hay or pellets. I have gave him some critical care as well, but not a lot.
My conundrum, more so than his odd post op behavior, is whether or not I did the right thing. The doctor told me that it's probably chronic as he formed two stones in a week after the first(this time around). He told me it might be better to let him go, but I opted to give him one more chance. Did I do the right thing, putting him through a third surgery at 3 years old, possibly just to have another stone form in a month?

 

[Gem789]

Hey everybody!
So Midnight just had his third surgery, second bladder stone removal. The surgery went well, although after his temp dropped and I had to bring him back in to have it brought up. He had the surgery this morning, and still seems pretty lethargic. I'm in the US, so it's been about 14 hours since surgery. He's never had pain management before, and now he does, so I'm wondering if this could be why he's acting a bit differently? Also, he's not eating a lot. I'm in there every twenty minutes or so stimulating him to eat. He'll eat a lot of veggies, but not so much hay or pellets. I have gave him some critical care as well, but not a lot.
My conundrum, more so than his odd post op behavior, is whether or not I did the right thing. The doctor told me that it's probably chronic as he formed two stones in a week after the first(this time around). He told me it might be better to let him go, but I opted to give him one more chance. Did I do the right thing, putting him through a third surgery at 3 years old, possibly just to have another stone form in a month?

I think you did the right thing.I always think if I lose an animal during surgery then at least I know I tried my best for them.I hope he feels better soon.What pain medication is he on? If it's metacam(loxicom) then that doesn't make them drowsy xx

 

[lexi468]

I think you did the right thing.I always think if I lose an animal during surgery then at least I know I tried my best for them.I hope he feels better soon.What pain medication is he on? If it's metacam(loxicom) then that doesn't make them drowsy xx

That's how I felt as well. I feel better, thank you! They sent me home with Metacam, but he was on some injections earlier. I just had him out to give him critical care and check his temp as well as change his sheet, and he seems like he's getting some of his fierceness back. He's like a grumpy old man, and I've never been so glad to have him acting like that again.

 

[Gem789]

That's how I felt as well. I feel better, thank you! They sent me home with Metacam, but he was on some injections earlier. I just had him out to give him critical care and check his temp as well as change his sheet, and he seems like he's getting some of his fierceness back. He's like a grumpy old man, and I've never been so glad to have him acting like that again.

Bless him, i really hope he continues to get better.My late Sam had a bladder stone and I opted for surgery but unfortunately it was in his urethra and they couldn't remove it so he had to be put to sleep to spare him any more pain.I was devastated but I was glad I'd gave him a chance x

 

[lexi468]

Bless him, i really hope he continues to get better.My late Sam had a bladder stone and I opted for surgery but unfortunately it was in his urethra and they couldn't remove it so he had to be put to sleep to spare him any more pain.I was devastated but I was glad I'd gave him a chance x

That is so tough. That gives me a new perspective though. I'm lucky to still have him with me. I'm sorry about your Sam.

P.S. Can you think of anything I can do to get him back on hay and pellets instead of pretty much only veg?

 

[Gem789]

That is so tough. That gives me a new perspective though. I'm lucky to still have him with me. I'm sorry about your Sam.

P.S. Can you think of anything I can do to get him back on hay and pellets instead of pretty much only veg?

Thanks, I would maybe try to order some sample bags of hay if you can to try and tempt him with different sorts x

 

[lexi468]

Thanks, I would maybe try to order some sample bags of hay if you can to try and tempt him with different sorts x

Good idea, I didn't even think of that!

 

[Wiebke]

Hey everybody!
So Midnight just had his third surgery, second bladder stone removal. The surgery went well, although after his temp dropped and I had to bring him back in to have it brought up. He had the surgery this morning, and still seems pretty lethargic. I'm in the US, so it's been about 14 hours since surgery. He's never had pain management before, and now he does, so I'm wondering if this could be why he's acting a bit differently? Also, he's not eating a lot. I'm in there every twenty minutes or so stimulating him to eat. He'll eat a lot of veggies, but not so much hay or pellets. I have gave him some critical care as well, but not a lot.
My conundrum, more so than his odd post op behavior, is whether or not I did the right thing. The doctor told me that it's probably chronic as he formed two stones in a week after the first(this time around). He told me it might be better to let him go, but I opted to give him one more chance. Did I do the right thing, putting him through a third surgery at 3 years old, possibly just to have another stone form in a month?

Hi! You did the right thing, but please be aware that two major operations so close to each other are inevitably going to affect the body - they do so in a human and much more in a little guinea pig.

Please start topping him up with syringe feed asap! Either with recovery formula like Critical Care fine grind, mushed up low calcium veg or mix of the two. Hay makes 80% or more of the daily food intake; the fibre in the dry food is what keep the guts steady. The sooner you step in, the better his recover rate as his guts are going to slow down and he is going to lose a lot of weight as a result of eating only a fraction of his daily food intake. It is however a very positive sign that he still has got some appetite and will to live! Your care at home can really make the difference in this situation.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Tips For Post-operative Care

Calcium absorption in guinea pigs is a complex and yet little researched process (guinea pigs are grossly underresearched anyway). Diet can do only so much and works mostly in the longer term where it can help to prevent the formation of another stone (but there may still be sludge), but less so in the short term if the process is severely disturbed/unbalanced at some point. At the worst (which is what you are experiencing), stones can reform very quickly after an operation. It also takes a while to work the calcium out of the body.

- Please filter any water, irrespective of whether you live in a hard water area or not. Minerals in the water also contribute to the formation of stones. Filtering water can make a real difference as many people are not aware just how much calcium is taken in that way.
- Feed preferably low calcium timothy hay as the main source of hay although you can add softer orchard or meadow hay for any places your piggy can sit/lie in hay (danger of eye pokes).
- Switch to timothy based low calcium pellets.
- Feed a carefully balanced mix of veg (you can find tips for bladder piggies by our sample diet): Recommendations For A Balanced General Guinea Pig Diet

- Start giving a glucosamine based food supplement. The most common is cystease or a derivative, which is a cat food supplement. This is to support the natural glucosamine coat of the bladder walls, which are rather irritated by the stones and which can help with the discomfort in there. if necessary, clear this with your vet, but it is very commonly used in guinea pigs with urinary tract problems. It is a food supplement and not a medication, so you can get it online yourself.

All the best and fingers very firmly crossed!

 

[DM030819]

My Anselmo had 2 bladder stone surgeries within 6 months and we managed to keep him stone free for another 2 years after that (he was PTS over something unrelated).

We did everything that Wiebke mentions above.

We also increased his water intake as he was a terrible drinker and gave him more exercise.

After his surgeries he didn't immediately eat hay again. He would eat some if I fed it to him, and he nibbled a bit if I chopped it into smaller pieces. The fluffy hay seeds were his favourite so I used to make sure I picked out loads of them for after surgery and gave him a big stack to work through.

You definitely made the right choice. It's sad to see them poorly after a surgery that we chose them to have, but when he's feeling 100% again you'll see it was the best idea. My boy was 5 after his second surgery and we had 2 more fun years with him.

 

[lexi468]

@Jaycey, that is incredibly inspiring. I'm so glad to hear this.

@Wiebke, thank you so much! I fed him quite a bit of critical care last night after I posted this, and have been up every two hours to get him to eat. I've noticed that if I take his hut away for a little while, he will get up and walk around a bit and eat. This morning when I went in to give him more critical care, he was up and eating pellets! I could not have been happier to see that.
I did ask the vet about glucosamine yesterday and they said absolutely it was a good idea, so I am going to pick some up. I also have Oxbow urinary support tabs, are those helpful? After his first stone I changed his diet and started filtering water, but I think he needs more exercise. Nonetheless, I'm thrilled he's doing better today. He seemed to have hit rock bottom last night, so I am hoping it's only up from here. I can't imagine he would have made it through the night if I hadn't been up with him most of the night. In the beginning when I was sleeping it was only in 30 minute stints. I hope somebody sees this and realizes the importance of full time care after surgery. It really does seem to make or break them.

 

[Wiebke]

@Jaycey, that is incredibly inspiring. I'm so glad to hear this.

@Wiebke, thank you so much! I fed him quite an it of critical care last night after I posted this, and have been up every two hours to get him to eat. I've noticed that if I take his hit away for a little while, he will get up and walk around a bit and eat. This morning when I went in to give him more critical care, he was up and eating pellets! I could not have been happier to see that.
I did ask the vet about glucosamine yesterday and they said absolutely it was a good idea, so I am going to pick some up. I also have Oxboy urinary support tabs, are those helpful? After his first stone I changed his diet and started filtering water, but I think he needs more exercise. Nonetheless, I'm thrilled he's doing better today. He seemed to have hit rock bottom last night, so I am hoping it's only up from here. I can't imagine he would have made it through the night if I hadn't been up with him most of the night. In the beginning when I was sleeping it was only in 30 minute stints. I hope somebody sees this and realized the importance of full time care after surgery. It really does seem to make or break them.

You can give him the Oxbow urinary support if you wish to.
@Jaycey may be able to suggest a couple of other meds that may be used to help stabilise his calcium absorption. Whether they work in your case, is of course open, but these are meds that have been used successfully by vets - there is just such a lack of research.

Many people are not aware how crucial post-op care is, especially when a piggy has a bad reaction to GA. It can really make all the difference. This is the reason why we have written our home care guides for post-op care and syringe feeding.

I hope that you boy has now turned the corner. If he is eating on his own and is more active and with it, I would recommend that you give him a feed before going to bed, but check on him only once during the night.

 

[lexi468]

You can give him the Oxbow urinary support if you wish to.
@Jaycey may be able to suggest a couple of other meds that may be used to help stabilise his calcium absorption. Whether they work in your case, is of course open, but these are meds that have been used successfully by vets - there is just such a lack of research.

Many people are not aware how crucial post-op care is, especially when a piggy has a bad reaction to GA. It can really make all the difference. This is the reason why we have written our home care guides for post-op care and syringe feeding.

I hope that you boy has now turned the corner. If he is eating on his own and is more active and with it, I would recommend that you give him a feed before going to bed, but check on him only once during the night.

That is great news, I am exhausted!
The vet is going to send in the stones to be analyzed, a free service out of Minnesota in the US, and then we will be able to tell what they are made of, which will hopefully be able to give us a better understanding of what needs to be done to help him.

 

[DM030819]

@lexi468 The Oxbow Urinary hay tablets are great but they have glucosamine in them too, so you might want to check doses with your vet just to make sure you're not giving him too much. My vet prefered me to use Cystease but I think either, or a low dose of both would be fine.

Anselmo also took a diuretic called Bendrofluazide. I was speaking with someone on a different forum who worked at a zoo. The vet there had recently had great success with treating a few rabbits with bladder sludge/stone issues with it and he was looking to try it on guinea pigs (he'd also had success with some zoo animals). My vet spoke to him and we decided to give it a try.

I was a bit reluctant as I read a few forum posts on other people trying it on pigs and immediately stopping as the calcium sludge output went crazy. But we thought that was the diuretic flushing the calcium out as Anselmo was fine after a few days.

It most definitely didn't cure him. He still left white spots on the fleece and I had to be very strict with his food but I like to mention it as it might be an option.

My vet has used it since Anselmo with a few more pigs so they must have been happy with his results.

 

[Wiebke]

That is great news, I am exhausted!
The vet is going to send in the stones to be analyzed, a free service out of Minnesota in the US, and then we will be able to tell what they are made of, which will hopefully be able to give us a better understanding of what needs to be done to help him.

The vast majority of stones are carbohydrate based. A few have oxalic acid.

 

[lexi468]

@lexi468 The Oxbow Urinary hay tablets are great but they have glucosamine in them too, so you might want to check doses with your vet just to make sure you're not giving him too much. My vet prefered me to use Cystease but I think either, or a low dose of both would be fine.

Anselmo also took a diuretic called Bendrofluazide. I was speaking with someone on a different forum who worked at a zoo. The vet there had recently had great success with treating a few rabbits with bladder sludge/stone issues with it and he was looking to try it on guinea pigs (he'd also had success with some zoo animals). My vet spoke to him and we decided to give it a try.

I was a bit reluctant as I read a few forum posts on other people trying it on pigs and immediately stopping as the calcium sludge output went crazy. But we thought that was the diuretic flushing the calcium out as Anselmo was fine after a few days.

It most definitely didn't cure him. He still left white spots on the fleece and I had to be very strict with his food but I like to mention it as it might be an option.

My vet has used it since Anselmo with a few more pigs so they must have been happy with his results.

The weird thing is that Midnight doesn't leave white spots on his fleece. I think the vet thinks it must be something other than calcium because I've changed his diet and he doesn't leave the white marks. I'll talk to my vet about the Bendrofluazide as well though.