Diet advice from exotics vet

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bessiehen

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OK, I'm going to preface this by saying 'please don't shoot the messenger', I am not here to criticise or contradict anyone but I would like to share the advice with you I have just received from our exotics vet who has an excellent reputation.

He told us a guinea pig diet should have no nuggets (he said guinea pigs are usually much healthier without them), no tomatoes, no carrots (although the leafy tops are fine) and no fruit at all - which includes bell peppers.

He said the above foods can be given in very small amounts as very occasional treats.

He said a healthy guinea pig diet should be hay, grass and leaves only (e.g. broccolli leaves, cauli leaves, very occasionally dandelion leaves, and safe leaves that grow in the wild. I said I was concerned about bloat with dark leafy veg and he said that is simply not true. (contradicts a lot of what I've read...)

He said Burt's back teeth are slightly overgrown, and this is probably due to his diet :(

I was quite upset on the way home, me and my husband are both caring, sensible owners who read 4 books before we even got our guineas and are always trying to do the right thing, yet we have fed them the wrong diet for over a year :(

So from tonight we will be changing their diet significantly (the vet said there is no need to do it gradually) - goodbye nuggets, hello leaves.

I hope this helps someone reading, and again, please don't think I am thinking that I'm right ... I'm just sharing to help.

PS he said Burt will no doubt lose weight as he has been on high calorie diet - I'll post some pigtures when he is more slimline.
 
If you think about it their diet should be close to how they eat in the wild and bell peppers, carrots and pellets etc dont grow there. But saying that where will they get their vit c from?

:)
 
How come all piggies on here have nuggets and are fine? I would not worry too much about what he says. My vets think nuggets are good for piggies. I am not sure I agree with what he has said but I understand you must do what you feel is right.
 
Thanks for your comments, I know - there seems to be so much contradictory advice out there! I am going to change their diet as obviously this is my regular vet practice so I want to do as they say. I had been giving them pepper nearly every day not realising it was classed as fruit! Feel so stupid now :(

Vitamin C - do they get it from grass / hay do you think?
 
It's literally all food for thought and everyone will have their own opinion on thigns like this, i find it interesting to read.
I understand in the wild they wouldn't feed these foods but then again, they're so far domesticated i don't think they know any different.
Its not like your vet is suggesting anything radical though, so it won't hurt to try. I personally feed a bowl of nuggets and only refill if its been there over a day or when its empty, i like the bulk of their diet to be hay and herbs.
I hear carrots in excess aren't good, i think too much affects the liver? Can't remember exactly. And tomatoes are quite acidic anyway (none of my lot will each them anyway) and i only have 2 that like pepper.
 
In essense it is a diet that reflects as closely as possible the diet they would have in the wild. Mostly plain grasses(or hay) with a variety of different forage/weeds etc (or veg). Some leafy veg do have high vitamin C content, it's worth having a look on the guide on guinea lynx forum, it shows all the different contents of each veg etc. I think watercress and pak choi are both good for vitamins if I recall correctly. On my browser it can be sorted by content as well which is really useful Link to veg chart :)
 
How much of the leafy stuff are they allowed per day then?m is it unlimited grass and hay that your vet suggests?
 
Thats interesting. Thanks for sharing! My piggies loves peppers and I too had no idea they were considered a fruit so your not the only one :)
 
I have to say ive stopped feeding both nuggets and veg in exess, because i like my piggies to focus on their hay. They have maybe a bowl of nuggets between the pair every two days, and the same with veg. I would be worried about the calcium content of so many leafy greens though!
 
What would you feed in winter with this diet when there's not much grass around? Should you increase hay or Veg? :)
 
I've had alot of arguments with people, well not arguments but discussions, where other people have had completely different diets with there pigs to mine, some where they only feed grass and hay and some where they feed the mixed feed and grass and no hay and things like that but no matter what evidence you give it always comes back to one thing

"But i've been doing it for ages and my pigs are fine"

And i guess, that there are many different styles of diets that pigs can lead perfectly healthy lives with and it's just down to ours and our pigs preference, i wouldn't want to leave my pigs without nuggets personally and i keep there bowl full all the time where as some people only give a small amount each day or none at all, my pigs are healthy and happy and the pigs that don't get nuggets are happy and healthy, you shouldn't feel bad for having a different opinion on a pigs diet to someone else, knowledge isn't everything, experience, i'd much rather keep on with what I'm doing then change it to something I'm not used to and end up getting worried all the time, when i give the pigs something new or change something i seem to worry about everything they do :') But i think the vet has a fair opinion but it isn't something i'd like to follow as my pigs love the variety of there veg and being able to munch on nuggets whenever they like however it is interesting hearing about other pigs diets i think (:
 
Thanks for the comments / opinions everyone. Some good points and questions raised, which I'm afraid I don't have answers to!

My pigs seem happy with the regime change so far, though I am going to do a fair bit of research and planning to make sure there is a good low calcium / high vitamin C content to their food.

They haven't even squeaked for their nuggets which I find hard to believe, but they are just toddling over to their extra hay instead and munching away :) (Burt currently has a pile of it on his head, resting there nicely whilst he eats the floor hay - i love him ;) )
 
Update

Just had a phone call with the vet to try and clarify some of my confusion.

In his opinion, most guinea pigs are OK with grass (low calcium, lots of vitamin C), good quality hay (lots of vitamin C) and readigrass.

For daily veg he said lettuce is very good nutritionally as it has low calcium and high vitamin C. Green veg (e.g. cauliflower leaves, cabbage, broccolli) is OK every day and they should get plenty in winter, BUT it is high calcium - he said most guinea pigs can cope with it, but if they develop problems (e.g. urinary) then they would have to reduce it.

He said they can have dried veg in winter when grass is less nutritional (I think he meant readigrass).

He said vitamin C is very unstable so having it added to nuggets / water is pretty irrelevant.

He said, in his experience, guinea pigs fed on muesli / feed / fruit / = health problems.

So Burt and Clive will be having hay, grass, no nuggets, salad leaves twice a day, with a small amount of different green leafy veg, a bit of cucumber on hot days ... and occasional pepper treats.

They seem pretty good so far.
 
Really interesting stuff. Your vet is basically saying the best diet for piggies is one as close to the diet they had in the wild as possible. Well, that's true of all animals including humans, but not always easily achieved.

For instance hay is not what they had in the wild. Hay is grass dried by man. Grass is their natural food.

Anything with seeds is a fruit - so capsicum, cucumber, tomatoes and so on are all fruits.

I've always avoided nuggets because they all seem to have preservatives and molasses in them and their vitamin C content is not to be relied on. But this left the problem of vitamin D. Piggies can only get it through unfiltered sunlight on their fur (the equivalent of 1 hour 3 times a week according to the vet dept of our local uni) or by supplementation (most commecially prepared nuggets have it). What does your vet say about how your piggies should get their vitamin D? I'm really curious.
 
The problem being feeding too much of the brassica family can cause bloat and too much of lettuce can cause problems

From the guides on this very forum
HIGH CALCIUM (ratio 2.0:1 to 2.4:1)
Cabbage
Chicory
Kale
Mustard Greens
Parsley
Spinach
Watercress
note 3 members of the brassica family

HIGH-MID CALCIUM (ratio 1.0:1 to 1.9:1)
Broccoli Rabe
Celery
Chard
Chives
Coriander / Cilantro
Red Cabbage
Round lettuce / Butterhead / Boston / Bibb

have edited it down, the further list is here http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30297

and the shopping list guide which I go by a lot. http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42

I tend to feed a mixture of something leafy with something crunchy (for the teeth) and something nice and a slice of pepper each pig. I havent had any issues with them, I dont feed brassica to the boys as it could make them whiffy, they get runner beans instead, might try other members of the legume family for a change.

An example of their plates of veg is
day 1
romaine lettuce, runner beans, celery and pepper slices
day 2
spinach, cucumber, radish, pepper slices
day 3
round lettuce, carrot, runner beans, pepper slices
day 4
broccolli (not the boys), celery, watercress, a tomato each sliced, pepper slices.
and then rotate about, as long as lettuce isnt every day, carrots once or twice a week, brassica not every day and really special treats (tomatoes, fruit - bar pepper) once a week. I am a little limited to what my lot eat and like, the boys wont eat sweetcorn, radish, peppers and I avoid foods that potentially cause bladder stones, the herd are a little more adventurous but I still watch what they have regarding potential stones and for over a year it has worked fine. Everything is given in moderation, I have reduced the amount of veg given as with 6 mouths to feed I can now feed them before it goes too far and have to throw it, so they have a nice mixture.

I think its what works for you and your pigs, there are lots of things to try but not every pig likes them and of course I feed a handfull of grass daily, abundance of hay and they are on the dreaded muesli, with nuggets mixed in, I only change the bowls when the herd are outside once a day as the molluscs like to eat it all up as well, inside I will leave the bowl till they eat it all and fill up after.
 
Thank you. Not sure about vitamin D, I will ask him next time we go in.

And I didn't know cucumber was classed as fruit either inbreeding

I feel I should point out (though I did mention it initially) that this diet change IS due to health issues in my own guinea pig and my vet has advised this diet on the basis of my particular pig's health issues - just in response to people who are saying 'my pig is fine on this diet', that's great and I'm not advocating change, but my pig has not been fine on the diet I had followed previously, taking in all sorts of research, including from here, several books and the guinea lynx food sheet, (overgrown back teeth and potential to develop diabetes due to the high sugar content of his diet :( )

That's not a criticism of anyone, just an explanation :)
 
Lilly said:
Really interesting stuff. Your vet is basically saying the best diet for piggies is one as close to the diet they had in the wild as possible. Well, that's true of all animals including humans, but not always easily achieved.

For instance hay is not what they had in the wild. Hay is grass dried by man. Grass is their natural food.

Anything with seeds is a fruit - so capsicum, cucumber, tomatoes and so on are all fruits.

I've always avoided nuggets because they all seem to have preservatives and molasses in them and their vitamin C content is not to be relied on. But this left the problem of vitamin D. Piggies can only get it through unfiltered sunlight on their fur (the equivalent of 1 hour 3 times a week according to the vet dept of our local uni) or by supplementation (most commecially prepared nuggets have it). What does your vet say about how your piggies should get their vitamin D? I'm really curious.
Click to expand...

Hi, I was at the vet last night, he said lettuce has plenty of vitamin d for my pigs with the diet they are on now (I googled it and it seems like oak leaf lettuce that they have.)
 
I took my pig off nuggets for over a year after she had to have dentals really close together. She used to only eat nuggets and her teeth grew in a few weeks. After taking her off the nuggets she was fine for over a year just on hay, sweetcor, grass. I was always worried about lack of vit c but she has been fine.
 
It is so difficult to know what is best.

I have had my boys for three months and I am so confused at what would be best for them!

They get a bowl of nuggets a day, but I read somewhere that if there bowl is empty you are not feeding them enough? But what if you just have greedy piggies? Lol

I might give them less nuggets now and see how we go. They do mainly eat grass and hay and only get carrot and pepper every second day with broccoli etc on alternative days. But when I open the fridge door, I hear the wee squeaks and I am sure they are saying "mammy..so hungry" it is so tempting to get them something lol

So many decisions?!

Did the vet mention herbs?!

Arghhhhh :)

Lol

Thanks for the info-very interesting. Will be good to see others POV.

Xx
 
guinea77 said:
It is so difficult to know what is best.

I have had my boys for three months and I am so confused at what would be best for them!

They get a bowl of nuggets a day, but I read somewhere that if there bowl is empty you are not feeding them enough? But what if you just have greedy piggies? Lol

I might give them less nuggets now and see how we go. They do mainly eat grass and hay and only get carrot and pepper every second day with broccoli etc on alternative days. But when I open the fridge door, I hear the wee squeaks and I am sure they are saying "mammy..so hungry" it is so tempting to get them something lol

So many decisions?!

Did the vet mention herbs?!

Arghhhhh :)

Lol

Thanks for the info-very interesting. Will be good to see others POV.

Xx
Click to expand...

the packet says how much to feed per day.
 
bessiehen said:
Hi, I was at the vet last night, he said lettuce has plenty of vitamin d for my pigs with the diet they are on now (I googled it and it seems like oak leaf lettuce that they have.)
Click to expand...

Whenever I've searched for food that naturally contains vitamin D I've only ever gotten fish and eggs. But after reading your post I searched for oak leaf lettuce and vitamin D and came up with the same results as you/your vet!

You have no idea how happy I am to hear this. My boys regularly get red and green oak leaf lettuces. Thanks so much for asking your vet about this!
 
I am so sorry. But what are nuggets? Do you mean pellets:)? Sorry I'm in Australia :)
 
Diet is my biggest worry and I agree with your vet, nuggets when I think about it are a strange one. I feed mine in moderation and they get tonnes of grasses, unlimited hay and veg - mostly lettuces, kale and strawberry leaves. I am trying to get their diet correct in my mind and like you have read so much about it. In response to others where can you buy this oak lettuce? I've found sainsburys tesco and Asia are terrible for variety of lettuce, morrisons is slightly better but anything a bit different and supermarkets seem to not want to try!
 
This is a really interesting thread and has really got me thinking - we only got our latest guineas 3 weeks ago (although we have kept a pair of piggies before) Lat time we had guineas, we mainly kept them outside in a hutch and inside our extension in winter. they were very healthy and lived a good 6 years without any problems at all - we never gave them any special attention, they got out in a run on fine days and obviously we kept them fed and watered but I think they mainly did live on hay with the odd vegetable leftovers chucked in when we had any.


This time, I wanted guineas that are very friendly (our others were lovely piggies but remained nervous as we didnt handle them often enough)

We have an indoor cage and so far the piggies have been a bit too pampered - I am definitely feeding them more as they are in the house all the time, and I was wondering if I am going to be guilty of 'killing them with kindness'


So - thank goodness I found your thread before too much damage is done!

I am definitely feeding them far too much veg (not so much fruit) and I had already noticed they are not eating the 80% hay that they should - so I will definitely cut right back on the extras until I see them eating lots more hay.


I am feeding the burgess pellets with oregano and blackcurrent (as that is what they were fed on when we got them) I think I will keep these going though in lower quantity (they do eat a lot of these)


I did read somewhere that if you do feed your pig something that causes bloating or diarrhoea, then you should keep them on hay and water only until it all settles - so this probably is very good advice from your vet!
 
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