Diet To Avoid Further Stone(s) Forming

[Kosson]

My piggy ( Kosson, 4years old) urinated with blood in mid October and mid December and this Monday the exotics vet found a little stone in her bladder. I went to nearby vet, who is not an exotics speacialist, in October and December but they found nothing from Xray image in October and they said it was polyp from ultrasound image in December. I finally found an exotics vet so I went there this Monday.

The vet said the stone in bladder was small and normally it would go out naturally with a sow. He instructed me to give her some vitamine C to let the stone melt and go.

Her diet was, hay (not alfalfa) and pellet mix (not alfalfa based and she tend to leave cereals), along with salad bowls in the morning and in the evening..The bowl contained - little amount of spinach, green part of half leaf of Iceberg, some parsley and quarter of tomato. I found these were not very good especially when piggy has a urinary problem.

So I switched to - a very little amount of spinach (about 4x4cm) as Kosson loves it and I suppose she needs some iron as she bleeds and iron supplement is not available here, small square of fennel, a cauliflower leaf, a little amount of parsley, a slice of red paprika and lettuce (not iceberg). I know some vegs still contains lots of calcium but I would rather change it gradually.

It would help me if your piggy has got a similar problem and share what food you give him/her, or advise me what should and should not be given.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Wiebke]

My piggy ( Kosson, 4years old) urinated with blood in mid October and mid December and this Monday the exotics vet found a little stone in her bladder. I went to nearby vet, who is not an exotics speacialist, in October and December but they found nothing from Xray image in October and they said it was polyp from ultrasound image in December. I finally found an exotics vet so I went there this Monday.

The vet said the stone in bladder was small and normally it would go out naturally with a sow. He instructed me to give her some vitamine C to let the stone melt and go.

Her diet was, hay (not alfalfa) and pellet mix (not alfalfa based and she tend to leave cereals), along with salad bowls in the morning and in the evening..The bowl contained - little amount of spinach, green part of half leaf of Iceberg, some parsley and quarter of tomato. I found these were not very good especially when piggy has a urinary problem.

So I switched to - a very little amount of spinach (about 4x4cm) as Kosson loves it and I suppose she needs some iron as she bleeds and iron supplement is not available here, small square of fennel, a cauliflower leaf, a little amount of parsley, a slice of red paprika and lettuce (not iceberg). I know some vegs still contains lots of calcium but I would rather change it gradually.

It would help me if your piggy has got a similar problem and share what food you give him/her, or advise me what should and should not be given.

Thank you in advance!

Hi!

Please be aware that stones can get stuck in the urethra and back the urine up into the kidneys if a guinea pig can no longer pass urine in that situation and that some will never be passed on their own and just continue to grow.

Diet recommendations:
Please see our recommendations for guinea pigs with severe or lng term urinary tract problems: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diet
- Filter any water, even if you live in a soft water water area. If you decide to switch to bottled water, you need to find a variety that is low in calcium (most brands aren't). it can make a huge difference.
- Research for a pellet brand with low or no added calcium or - if you really can't get any decent ones - do not feed more than a tablespoon of pellets per day. And please DO NOT heap the tablespoon!
- Please follow the recommendations for our vegetable selection as specified in our sample diet; most of our long term members follow an individual diet that is based around it and have no longer any avoidable bladder stone problems. Spinach is unfortunately very high in calcium and not at all good for a bladder stone piggy.

- give your guinea pig glucosamine or a glucosamine based cat food supplement to protect the natural glusamine coat in the bladder walls. The UK brand is cystease. Any stone stook in the bladder will cause massive irritation and pain to the bladder. Has your vet given you any painkiller/anti-inflammatory to at lease minimise the impact on your guinea pig's wellbeing?

Since we have members from all over the world, we find it very helpful if you please added your country, state/province or UK county to your details, so we can tailor any advice to what is relevant and available in your country straight away. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location to make it appear with every post you make in order to speed up things. Thank you!

 

[Kosson]

Hi!

Please be aware that stones can get stuck in the urethra and back the urine up into the kidneys if a guinea pig can no longer pass urine in that situation and that some will never be passed on their own and just continue to grow.

Diet recommendations:
Please see our recommendations for guinea pigs with severe or lng term urinary tract problems: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diet
- Filter any water, even if you live in a soft water water area. If you decide to switch to bottled water, you need to find a variety that is low in calcium (most brands aren't). it can make a huge difference.
- Research for a pellet brand with low or no added calcium or - if you really can't get any decent ones - do not feed more than a tablespoon of pellets per day. And please DO NOT heap the tablespoon!
- Please follow the recommendations for our vegetable selection as specified in our sample diet; most of our long term members follow an individual diet that is based around it and have no longer any avoidable bladder stone problems. Spinach is unfortunately very high in calcium and not at all good for a bladder stone piggy.

- give your guinea pig glucosamine or a glucosamine based cat food supplement to protect the natural glusamine coat in the bladder walls. The UK brand is cystease. Any stone stook in the bladder will cause massive irritation and pain to the bladder. Has your vet given you any painkiller/anti-inflammatory to at lease minimise the impact on your guinea pig's wellbeing?

Since we have members from all over the world, we find it very helpful if you please added your country, state/province or UK county to your details, so we can tailor any advice to what is relevant and available in your country straight away. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location to make it appear with every post you make in order to speed up things. Thank you!

Hi,

Thank you so much for your advice.

Yes I worry about the stone gets stuck / stays in the bladder and gets bigger. Since 1 January, my piggy started to drink a lot (about 100ml a day) compare to the amount she took before (around 30ml). Then I did not know it was a stone but felt this habit would improve the condition of her bladder.

Actually the vet did not prescribe any painkiller / anti-biotics. I guess it is beause I claimed Kosson lost her appetite since 31/12/2017, followed by the medication (Metacam 27-30/Dec / Anti biotic based on TRIMÉTHOPRIME & SULFADIAZINE 27-01 Jan) I suspected the latter caused it so I stopped it. I told it to the vet and he agreed that might have been the reason and told me not to give it to Kosson anymore. As for the pain, he asked me if Kosson cried when urinated and I told him no. Anyway he could not be sure which medicine did bad on my piggy, maybe he preferred not to give anything that could be harmful.

I use Brita for filtering the water. But I use a bottle of water that has low calcium (4.1mg/litre). Do you think the filtered water should better?

The vet told me to come back if things do not improve in three weeks. Since Kosson does her best drinking water and accepting the new version of salad bowl, I will do my very best!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

Thank you so much for your advice.

Yes I worry about the stone gets stuck / stays in the bladder and gets bigger. Since 1 January, my piggy started to drink a lot (about 100ml a day) compare to the amount she took before (around 30ml). Then I did not know it was a stone but felt this habit would improve the condition of her bladder.

Actually the vet did not prescribe any painkiller / anti-biotics. I guess it is beause I claimed Kosson lost her appetite since 31/12/2017, followed by the medication (Metacam 27-30/Dec / Anti biotic based on TRIMÉTHOPRIME & SULFADIAZINE 27-01 Jan) I suspected the latter caused it so I stopped it. I told it to the vet and he agreed that might have been the reason and told me not to give it to Kosson anymore. As for the pain, he asked me if Kosson cried when urinated and I told him no. Anyway he could not be sure which medicine did bad on my piggy, maybe he preferred not to give anything that could be harmful.

I use Brita for filtering the water. But I use a bottle of water that has low calcium (4.1mg/litre). Do you think the filtered water should better?

The vet told me to come back if things do not improve in three weeks. Since Kosson does her best drinking water and accepting the new version of salad bowl, I will do my very best!

Can you get no added calcium pellet brands when you look online? Zooplus has several suitable brands (Versele Laga, JR Farm, Bunny) It may not be easy to shift your guinea pig onto them, but it is worth it.

It is good that you have already addressed the water angle; most people overlook it and just concentrate on the veg. Like the largest part of Britain, parts of France are on limestone where the water very hard so guinea pigs are much more prone to stones. What you are doing is perfectly OK.

Timothy hay is lowest in calcium, but meadow or orchard hay are also fine. Alfalfa/lucerne is a legume and not a grass. It is much richer and too high in calcium and protein than is good for guinea pigs.

It is also good that your vet has set a time limit. If it is any consolation to you, bladder stone operations in sows are pretty straight forward; they generally heal well without complications.
Tips For Post-operative Care

 

[Kosson]

Can you get no added calcium pellet brands when you look online? Zooplus has several suitable brands (Versele Laga, JR Farm, Bunny) It may not be easy to shift your guinea pig onto them, but it is worth it.

It is good that you have already addressed the water angle; most people overlook it and just concentrate on the veg. Like the largest part of Britain, parts of France are on limestone where the water very hard so guinea pigs are much more prone to stones. What you are doing is perfectly OK.

Timothy hay is lowest in calcium, but meadow or orchard hay are also fine. Alfalfa/lucerne is a legume and not a grass. It is much richer and too high in calcium and protein than is good for guinea pigs.

It is also good that your vet has set a time limit. If it is any consolation to you, bladder stone operations in sows are pretty straight forward; they generally heal well without complications.
Tips For Post-operative Care

I shifted to Versele Laga since the vet (nearby one) advised me this brand. Apparently it contains Calcium at 0.5% that seems to be from the ingredients, not 'added'. I give her 3 tablespoons a day since she loves green ones only. But I will look for the other brands as well!

You are right where I live is one of the 'very hard water' area (Pays de la Loire). I rinse the vegs (for Kosson) first with tap water but then I re-rinse them in filtered water just in case.

The vet did not actually set the time limit... it is a little embarrassing but it was me (Hope I did not sound a mad woman there). I was scared, as I said, the stone stayed and got bigger so I literally pushed him to say when I had to revisit him should the situation stayed the same. The vet sounded he was rather sure the treatment (vitamine C) would dissolve the stone hence would let it go, so he did not suggest anything for future.

I will keep eyes on Kosson, as you said that the stone could get stuck somewhere and blocks pee, or worse it goes up in kidneys... It it does, I am wondering what symptoms would appear...

 

[Wiebke]

I shifted to Versele Laga since the vet (nearby one) advised me this brand. Apparently it contains Calcium at 0.5% that seems to be from the ingredients, not 'added'. I give her 3 tablespoons a day since she loves green ones only. But I will look for the other brands as well!

You are right where I live is one of the 'very hard water' area (Pays de la Loire). I rinse the vegs (for Kosson) first with tap water but then I re-rinse them in filtered water just in case.

The vet did not actually set the time limit... it is a little embarrassing but it was me (Hope I did not sound a mad woman there). I was scared, as I said, the stone stayed and got bigger so I literally pushed him to say when I had to revisit him should the situation stayed the same. The vet sounded he was rather sure the treatment (vitamine C) would dissolve the stone hence would let it go, so he did not suggest anything for future.

I will keep eyes on Kosson, as you said that the stone could get stuck somewhere and blocks pee, or worse it goes up in kidneys... It it does, I am wondering what symptoms would appear...

Vitamin C doesn't dissolve stones, unfortunately. Guinea pigs have very alcaline urine, which is why they are so porne to urinary tract infections and bladder stones.

 

[Kosson]

Yes I do know piggy's urine is alcaline and indeed it stays so even after the treatment... But I do hope, whether dissolved or not, the stone goes out.

By the way I looked for the cystease and found two sorts: One is with picture of a cat (feliway Cystease) and other in pink and white box. Which one is the right one?

I guess I have to break the tablet and give a right amount for my piggy...? I have never done something like that before.

 

[Wiebke]

Yes I do know piggy's urine is alcaline and indeed it stays so even after the treatment... But I do hope, whether dissolved or not, the stone goes out.

By the way I looked for the cystease and found two sorts: One is with picture of a cat (feliway Cystease) and other in pink and white box. Which one is the right one?

I guess I have to break the tablet and give a right amount for my piggy...? I have never done something like that before.

I prefer the one that comes in capsules. I think they are now sold as 'Feliway Cystease' but I am not quite sure. It is a few years since I last needed to give cystease myself.
You empty the capsule into a small medicine bottle (available from a vet or pharmacy). Mix the capsule with 2 ml of water (shake well), then give 1 ml of the solution (i.e. half a capsule). Sore the rest in the fridge overnight and shake before use. This ensures that you give about the right amount.

I haven't got any experience with the tablets; another member may be able to help you work out the correct dosage for that. Again, you best grind it into powder and mix with water.
@Jaycey @helen105281 @Lady Kelly @Freela

 

[Lady Kelly]

I've used cystease once with one of my very first piggies but it was the capsule ones and I think I remember a tub with a picture of the cat on the side. Unfortunately this was several years ago and my memory isn't great but I think I got a spare medicine bottle from my vet, mixed it up in there and then syringed some

 

[DM030819]

@Kosson I've only ever used the capsules too. But looking at the dosage it seems like they're the same.

I did use a cheaper version after consulting with my vet. It's called Cystassist and you can get it on Amazon. I actually preferred the Cystassist as it mixed with water better than Cystease.

When I've given tablets before sometimes I've been really lucky and the pig would simply eat it. But usually I had to crush it between two spoons, mix it with a 1ml of water and syringe it to them.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

Our vet, Simon Maddock, now advises stopping pellets completely for piggies who have had previous bladder stones and feeding porridge oats instead. Those who have had reoccurring stones have been stone free since no longer feeding pellets.

 

[Kosson]

@Wiebke , @Lady Kelly -- I found this one and this looks what you are referring (please see the attached image). One with 30 capsules is available here! It looks a good solution especially a piggy suffers from pain when urinating, as it contains L-trytophan to reduce anxiety. At the moment Kosson does not seem to have pain and she urinates normally, I am a little reluctant to give her something 'extra', even this can be found in lots of food.
I will get one and stock it for future! Thank you for telling me about this one and also how to give it to a piggy.

@Jaycey -- I found Cystassist and found somebody who can ship it to France! It looks ideal as my piggy does not seem to be stressed about urinating at the moment. I will get this one, too. I am just wondering the dosage. Feliway Cystease - one capluse a day for up to 3kg, so giving half of it sounds right. But this one says one capsule per 5kg bodyweight - did you give your piggy 1/5 of this? My piggy weighs 1170g.

 

[Lady Kelly]

@Wiebke , @Lady Kelly -- I found this one and this looks what you are referring (please see the attached image). One with 30 capsules is available here! It looks a good solution especially a piggy suffers from pain when urinating, as it contains L-trytophan to reduce anxiety. At the moment Kosson does not seem to have pain and she urinates normally, I am a little reluctant to give her something 'extra', even this can be found in lots of food.
I will get one and stock it for future! Thank you for telling me about this one and also how to give it to a piggy.

@Jaycey -- I found Cystassist and found somebody who can ship it to France! It looks ideal as my piggy does not seem to be stressed about urinating at the moment. I will get this one, too. I am just wondering the dosage. Feliway Cystease - one capluse a day for up to 3kg, so giving half of it sounds right. But this one says one capsule per 5kg bodyweight - did you give your piggy 1/5 of this? My piggy weighs 1170g.

View attachment 78364

Thats the one I had, I recognise the picture of the cat. I only used it for a short time in the end

 

[Kosson]

Our vet, Simon Maddock, now advises stopping pellets completely for piggies who have had previous bladder stones and feeding porridge oats instead. Those who have had reoccurring stones have been stone free since no longer feeding pellets.

!! That should be very hard! Should pellets mix with very low in calcium, or even with no calcium be avoided? Also I guess porridge oats do not contain much vitamines (A,C,D) - how should I compensate ? Maybe I should try half pellets mix and half porrige oats ...? I do not eat porrige oats so it might be a silly question, but is anything with no added fruits etc. which I can get from a local supermarket (i.e. Quaker) good?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I have never had a guinea pig with a bladder issue and the diet I feed is hay and grass, with a small amount of veg, porridge oats and nuggets fed as a treat.

I buy the cheap bags of porridge oats from Tesco. Will post a pic in a minute.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

These are the ones I feed. I also scatter a few nuggets into the hay so they need to forrage to find them.

 

[DM030819]

@furryfriends (TEAS) That's really interesting about the no pellet thing. I wonder if Anselmo's history had anything to do with the decision ?! Anselmo saw Kim mostly but we spoke many times about stopping feeding him pellets. We decided to do it and we never looked back. He lost weight initially but his bladder condition was much improved after.

 

[DM030819]

Cystassist is to be used instead of Cystease @Kosson so whichever is easiest for you to get hold of is fine. My pig has 1/5 of a Cystassist capsule per day long term but you can give more if/when advised by a vet.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

@furryfriends (TEAS) That's really interesting about the no pellet thing. I wonder if Anselmo's history had anything to do with the decision ?! Anselmo saw Kim mostly but we spoke many times about stopping feeding him pellets. We decided to do it and we never looked back. He lost weight initially but his bladder condition was much improved after.

It may well be. Simon has always felt the nuggets are the bigger problem than the choice of veg. However, it’s more recently that he’s been telling people to cut them out completely and the results have been very encouraging.

 

[Kosson]

These are the ones I feed. I also scatter a few nuggets into the hay so they need to forrage to find them.

View attachment 78369

I have seen the vet's name you mentioned (Simon Maddock) he must be one of the specialists to guinea pig's healthcare. I will get porridge oats tomorrow and I will try to switch the pellet mix to porridge oats little by little.

 

[Kosson]

Cystassist is to be used instead of Cystease @Kosson so whichever is easiest for you to get hold of is fine. My pig has 1/5 of a Cystassist capsule per day long term but you can give more if/when advised by a vet.

Thanks, I will give her 1/5 of it a day once it arrives. Hope this helps my little Kosson - just half an hour ago she urinated with a little 'cui cui' and the colour of pee was pink. It is heartbreaking to see her like this...

 

[rome_italy]

in Rome there are 3-4 famous cavy savvy vets; one is a famous Professor who runs his own clinic and treats cavies from other regions, too. He is considered here as expert as your Simon. They, too, have been recommending a free-pellets diet for years now, a diet based on fresh grass and the choice of few grams of vegs considering the ratio Calcium/phosphorus and not the only amount of calcium. (See Guinea Lynx website and his charts). Plus a little supplement of vit C. I don't know the results, but if they go on suggesting this diet it means that the results are good.
In Guinea Lynx there is a post about the role of Polycitra; I don't know its role, but the post is interesting. At the bottom of the page there are the links to the charts of the vegs.
Guinea Lynx :: Ca:P & Polycitra

 

[Kosson]

in Rome there are 3-4 famous cavy savvy vets; one is a famous Professor who runs his own clinic and treats cavies from other regions, too. He is considered here as expert as your Simon. They, too, have been recommending a free-pellets diet for years now, a diet based on fresh grass and the choice of few grams of vegs considering the ratio Calcium/phosphorus and not the only amount of calcium. (See Guinea Lynx website and his charts). Plus a little supplement of vit C. I don't know the results, but if they go on suggesting this diet it means that the results are good.
In Guinea Lynx there is a post about the role of Polycitra; I don't know its role, but the post is interesting. At the bottom of the page there are the links to the charts of the vegs.
Guinea Lynx :: Ca:P & Polycitra

Thank you for letting me know - actually I had never heard that pellets can be the reason of the stone before @Jaysay mentioned about it.
I looked at some guinea pig websites from France and, I indeed found one that told to cut out the pellets completely when the problem occured. So, this is recognised at least in three countries (I guess lots more if I research further). At the moment Kosson is losing her weight slowly (last week -1180g and yesterday -1145g), I am worried about her and want to give her some nuggets--- How did your piggies lose weight after you stopped give them pellets?

 

[rome_italy]

to say the truth I have the opposite worry: one of my sows is becoming so BIG (not fat, but BIG) and the male piggie adopted two months ago with the recommendation from the rescue and their vet about his past being "overweight" (I had to sign a contract for adopting him and I promised to not use pellets with him) is slowly gaining weight again (but the vet here says it is okay if he eats grass and hay mostly).
My male piggie was considered overweight and put on strict diet with 1200g. Maybe (I say maybe) your piggie has a great reserve of fat and losing some grams will not affect his health. It is just like when you cut out flour, bread and pasta from the diet: your weight will fall down in few days and that does not mean you are ill. You may want to reduce the amount of the nuggets, just following the latest international guide lines (if I am not wrong they were revised in 2009-2010 and say that nuggets must be 5% of the diet, that is a little spoon only).
In this thread you have received also the opinion and suggestion from lady "Furryfriend": she works into the clinic of the best piggies vet in UK, she runs a sanctuary with many ill piggies; this vet manages to save the life of piggies considered finished and without any hope from other vets. I would definitely follow her method approved by this experienced vet whom I imagine as a brave, creative and unconventional doctor: does he suggest oatmeal? okay, ask the lady about dosage and recipe and if your vet jumps on his chair saying that oat is bad for piggies gut, don't care.
Maybe your piggie will not improve, but she will not get worse for sure
these below are my three piggies, the long haired ones are female and have had in all their life only 5-6 pieces of pellets a day as a treat (that is 5-8 grams shared in three): Calliope in the middle is the one who is growing up so much....She was adopted last year with an alert from the vet (white sludge, pain during the weeing and screams when someone touched her belly; I drastically changed the diet and simptoms totally disappeared)

 

[Kosson]

I bought a packet of porridge oats yesterday and gave it a go: My piggy loved it ! Yes I must admit that she still prefers nuggets but as they might be bad for her, I have to be strict about it.

As for the vegs, I am still not sure what to give. I have looked the recommended veg dish here but I am still in the fog. I am not very certain of which leafy veg would be suitable etc. I have referred lots of websites (in English and in French) but very frequently one recommends veg A is good and B bad, and other says other way round. Finally one person was saying that only peppers, apple, carrot and tomato can be given.

Can anyone share the contents of veg dish that never triggers stone problem? I am aware that stone can be something to do with gene so it can not guarantee that my piggy would never have further problem, But I would love to see to get clearer idea.

The below image shows Kosson rushes into a tablespoon of porridge oats.

 

[Kosson]

to say the truth I have the opposite worry: one of my sows is becoming so BIG (not fat, but BIG) and the male piggie adopted two months ago with the recommendation from the rescue and their vet about his past being "overweight" (I had to sign a contract for adopting him and I promised to not use pellets with him) is slowly gaining weight again (but the vet here says it is okay if he eats grass and hay mostly).
My male piggie was considered overweight and put on strict diet with 1200g. Maybe (I say maybe) your piggie has a great reserve of fat and losing some grams will not affect his health. It is just like when you cut out flour, bread and pasta from the diet: your weight will fall down in few days and that does not mean you are ill. You may want to reduce the amount of the nuggets, just following the latest international guide lines (if I am not wrong they were revised in 2009-2010 and say that nuggets must be 5% of the diet, that is a little spoon only).
In this thread you have received also the opinion and suggestion from lady "Furryfriend": she works into the clinic of the best piggies vet in UK, she runs a sanctuary with many ill piggies; this vet manages to save the life of piggies considered finished and without any hope from other vets. I would definitely follow her method approved by this experienced vet whom I imagine as a brave, creative and unconventional doctor: does he suggest oatmeal? okay, ask the lady about dosage and recipe and if your vet jumps on his chair saying that oat is bad for piggies gut, don't care.
Maybe your piggie will not improve, but she will not get worse for sure
these below are my three piggies, the long haired ones are female and have had in all their life only 5-6 pieces of pellets a day as a treat (that is 5-8 grams shared in three): Calliope in the middle is the one who is growing up so much....She was adopted last year with an alert from the vet (white sludge, pain during the weeing and screams when someone touched her belly; I drastically changed the diet and simptoms totally disappeared)
View attachment 78515

Yes I gave her oats yesterday and she seemed to accept her new diet (though she prefers nuggets).
I have same impression to Simon as you describe - He seems to be a very keen specialist doctor. I could not see anything bad about oats, so why not! Anyway the packet of versele laga mix shows the ratio of calcium. Plus Kosson chooses certain nugetts and leaves some usually. That means maybe what she eats HAS calcium (and other left behind has not). I have no way to know the nutrition value of each nugget, unfortunately.
In a strict sense I know I have to cut the nuggets completely, but I can still give her some nuggets, even if very small amount, is a good news (for Kosson).
I will not get too panicked about weight loss, but I will keep eye on it.

 

[rome_italy]

I think the very good website for any medical information is Guinea Lynx and all its update medical suggestion (there is also a forum there, you might find some good info also there); other websites don't tell more and sometimes tells wrong things. I think that the amount of calcium is important, but also the amount of phosphorus counts a lot... too much P means that in the blood stream goes the calcium from the bones! and that calcium is filtered by kidneys and goes to the bladder. Cutting off the calcium and fill the belly with a lot of phosphorus might be only a mistake. Teeth grows no stop and need calcium.
You need to do a lot of experiments. Contact that lady of the forum and ask her the recipe and doses of porridge, because I think the oat must be cooked in a certain way for not causing bloat (I have read something long ago, but I don't remember...).
If you live in a place where fresh grass is available, consider the grass as a very good food which can replace all the vegs.
You say that Kosson prefers nuggets. Okay, but rules have changed now... and for healthy reasons, it is not a secondary issue
Don't worry, piggies don't know anything about Zooplus, supermarkets and petstores: when they don't see the pellets or the carrot or something else, they will not ask for anything, but will eat what they find into their bowl
I don't share with you the diet I follow only because mine is a different diet based on fresh grass...
I know somebody who follows the calculator online and try to respect strictly the story of the ratio Ca/P which should be 1,3:1 or 1,5:1. It means 1.5 grams of calcium and 1 of phosphorus. The calculator online helps, but my vet still sees piggies fed in that strict rule and still struggling with urinary troubles (but he never sees a piggie fed with grass and hay affected by the same troubles).
Kosson is such a beautiful girl!

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I bought a packet of porridge oats yesterday and gave it a go: My piggy loved it ! Yes I must admit that she still prefers nuggets but as they might be bad for her, I have to be strict about it.

As for the vegs, I am still not sure what to give. I have looked the recommended veg dish here but I am still in the fog. I am not very certain of which leafy veg would be suitable etc. I have referred lots of websites (in English and in French) but very frequently one recommends veg A is good and B bad, and other says other way round. Finally one person was saying that only peppers, apple, carrot and tomato can be given.

Can anyone share the contents of veg dish that never triggers stone problem? I am aware that stone can be something to do with gene so it can not guarantee that my piggy would never have further problem, But I would love to see to get clearer idea.

The below image shows Kosson rushes into a tablespoon of porridge oats.

View attachment 78519

I feed a selection of all sorts of veg. I have to be honest, as we have so many piggies here at TEAS, they get whatever veg has been reduced in price. I don't worry about whether it is a high calcium veg etc. Some days they may have lots of kale and spinach, which many say should be avoided. However, the biggest part of their diet is hay and grass and like I said previously, we have never had a piggy with a bladder issue!

 

[DM030819]

@Kosson The porridge oats don't need to be cooked. You can just give them straight from the bag. I give them a small bowl of them like I would pellets.

My bladder stone pig didn't have pellets after his second surgery. He weighed 1400g before, dropped to 1200g after I stopped the pellets but maintened after that.

He didn't get oats as he seemed to be able to keep weight on with just a diet of hay and a bit of veg.

 

[Kosson]

@rome_italy Yes I agree that certain websites are less reliable than others. I see the Guinea Lynx shows some examples of veg meals. I see from your and others posts, what is more important is that Kosson has to eat more hay/timothy, cutting out the pellets. I felt very very sad to see her back when she desperately looked for nuggets in her bowl, which contained only oats... But I have to be a strong guinea mum I guess. I don't want her to go under scalpel and gets stones again and again. It may need time (for Kosson and for me) to adopt the new diet but thank you for assuring me that would be ok oneday.

Your guineas look very happy to have fresh glass and they are so carini (if I remember the word right ). I am wondering what sort of glass they are having. I live in countryside so I might get same sort of glass if I drive ten minutes or so. The piggy in the middle looks big (not fat, big) by the way!