Difficult decision about bladder surgery in a 6yo piggy with multiple comorbidities...

[Sunshine Pigs]

I'm in the process of making a very difficult decision about bladder stone surgery versus euthanasia in one of my special pigs, and I'd hugely appreciate some advice.

My Theo is 6.5 years old. Aside from a scrotal hernia which has caused an occasional mild bloat, he's been very well ... until the past two months. Since Christmas, Theo has had chronic diarrhoea (we're not sure why, but it's being treated with nilstat + panacur + septrin), a split incisor and overgrown molars (resulting in a dental procedure, where TMJ/middle ear disease was diagnosed), and blood in his urine - a bladder stone was found on Tuesday. He's also on Critical Care + meloxicam + tramadol. He' quite bright, but honestly for the past month he's needed pretty intensive day-to-day nursing to keep weight on, prevent dehydration, prevent stasis/bloat, and manage pain. We're under the care of a good exotics vet.

I initially decided not to go ahead with surgery - in the past two years, we've had two of three other piggies die horrible, painful deaths post-bladder stone surgery, and those little ones were much younger and healthier than Theo. I was quietly hoping Theo might be able to live comfortably with the stone for a little while, and discussed this option with the vet. However, tonight Theo's straining to urinate small amounts of pink blood and (after being bright all week) is quite flat and sad - and I think I'm needing to make the surgery versus euthanasia decision soon. Unless - by some miracle - Theo's bladder pain settles overnight, we'll be travelling to see the after-hours specialist vet first thing tomorrow morning (it'll be Sunday here).

I know there's no 'right' answer - but is my original feeling that there's more risk than benefit to surgery reasonable, do you think?

 

[VickiA]

I am so sorry that you have this dilemma. Many of us have had to make difficult decisions like this and understand the considerations. Any decision that you make will be based on love and his best interests and will be right for him and you. No one will judge you either way. It’s a decision only you can make, it we are here to support you x

 

[Sunshine Pigs]

I am so sorry that you have this dilemma. Many of us have had to make difficult decisions like this and understand the considerations. Any decision that you make will be based on love and his best interests and will be right for him and you. No one will judge you either way. It’s a decision only you can make, it we are here to support you x

Thank-you so much. I think I'm in such a dilemma because I feel I know what's right for Theo (euthanasia, or at least palliation), but the vet is pushing surgery.

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I have had two boars go through bladder surgery and have said never again. My 6.5 year old is now showing signs of bladder disease (not gone down the route of sedation and tests yet) and has been given two weeks to improve on ABs and painkillers or I face the same decision as you do now. It's never easy whatever their age and whatever your past experience. There is no right or wrong way, only an agonising decision made with love. Sending you both love and hugs.

 

[Sunshine Pigs]

I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I have had two boars go through bladder surgery and have said never again. My 6.5 year old is now showing signs of bladder disease (not gone down the route of sedation and tests yet) and has been given two weeks to improve on ABs and painkillers or I face the same decision as you do now. It's never easy whatever their age and whatever your past experience. There is no right or wrong way, only an agonising decision made with love. Sending you both love and hugs.

Thank-you - I'm so sorry to hear about your old pig too ❤ They're so precious - and sometimes so fragile - when they're this old. But what you said about 'never again' in relation to the surgery is actually really reassuring, it makes me feel that I'm not crazy for not jumping into the surgery this week.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I think a lot of us have been through this heart wrenching dilemma sadly, be guided by your piggie. The main thing to
consider is his quality of life, sending you hugs x

 

[piggieminder]

Bless you. Yes they are precious and fragile, and funny and entertaining and adorable when they are older. No you are not crazy for not jumping into the surgery. I said never again the first time because although the boar in question bounced back the next day he got another stone within 2 weeks, this time it was stuck in the kidney, he was on palliative care for 4 months before I had to let him go. The second time I said no as soon as we got the stone result, the vet persuaded me to give Rusty a chance, just one surgery, see how he goes. He's still with us over a year on and I'm glad he had the surgery. Rusty had a very hard time post op, at the time I was full of regret putting him through it. It's never an easy decision and I'm not sure I would/could stick to never again. Only you know your pig, what he could put up with, what you can cope with in terms of aftercare. Nursing a sick post op pig is exhausting and extremely time consuming. My partner and I have decided in Peanut's case given his age and his frailty if it comes to it we won't go the surgery route.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank-you so much. I think I'm in such a dilemma because I feel I know what's right for Theo (euthanasia, or at least palliation), but the vet is pushing surgery.

It is always your decision and never the vet's.

If your vet is pushing for surgery, please discuss their assessment of the success rate. If they think there are a realistic chance of over 50%, then it may be worth considering giving Theo that chance - knowing that there is a fairly large chance that he may not come out of it.

There is however never a straight answer in this kind of situation where you are very much between a rock and a hard place. As long as your decision is made with Theo's wellbeing and interests before your own fears of loss, you cannot go wrong. This is a grey area where we have to all weigh up different factors against each other in a specific situation and may come up with different decisions. If you can't decide, then always go with your gut because it is you who has to live with the results of your decision in the long term and have to make peace with it.

You may find the relevant chapter in this guide here helpful in which I am trying to tackle the ethics, emotions and the practical considerations in play in these situations to help you make any decision with a clearer mind; the considerations are very much the same when you have to decide whether you want to risk a make or break operation or rather opt for palliative care/euthanasia when the time comes: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

 

[Hiitshannah]

I’m not an expert, but I’m in a similar situation right now with my pig Cashew. His stones are in his ureter, so it’s a slightly more complex operation. We decided not to go ahead with the operation as he would be unlikely to survive (he’s 5.5).

I just wanted to say that we came so close to Euthanasia a few weeks ago, and I’m so glad we didn’t, after a week of not eating much and intensive nursing, Cashew seemed to out of nowhere bounce back, right now you wouldn’t know anything is wrong with him, he popcorns, eats loads and is generally a happy pig. In my personal experience, his pain seems to come and go. He can go weeks with no blood and no sign of pain, and then has a few bad days (though he hasn’t had a single day as bad as the first bad week since we’ve been supporting with fibreplex, top up feeds when needed, cystease to improve the bladder lining, and syringing extra water), and then seems to bounce back again. Right now he’s only on loxicom, and has Tramadol on bad days.

I’m monitoring his quality of life, and when the time comes that the ‘bad days’ are more consistent, we will do the kindest thing of course, but I just wanted to share my experience to see if it may help you in any way - of course it may be different for Theo and this is my own unique experience with bladder stones!

 

[Sunshine Pigs]

I just wanted to say thanks so much everyone - every message has been so helpful, it's a lonely road to travel and your kindness means everything ❤

It turns out the decision was made for me: Theo obstructed overnight, he stopped urinating and was in a lot of pain. We went to one of the big 24/7 specialist centres, and saw a vet with an interest in exotics who agreed it was best to put Theo to sleep. I'm completely devastated - I love all my pigs, but Theo was one of the ones who loved back a little more. I'm questioning all my decisions but each one was made with Theo's quality of life at the forefront so I'm trying to live with that.

 

[KathT]

So sorry for your loss. It’s hard to lose a beloved pig and even harder when you have to make the decision. I’m sure you did everything that was right for him, and sought help when you weren’t sure. Don't be hard on yourself - Theo is now out of pain and in peace, take time to grieve for him but remember all the loving times with him too.

 

[Sunshine Pigs]

So sorry for your loss. It’s hard to lose a beloved pig and even harder when you have to make the decision. I’m sure you did everything that was right for him, and sought help when you weren’t sure. Don't be hard on yourself - Theo is now out of pain and in peace, take time to grieve for him but remember all the loving times with him too.

Thank-you so much ❤

 

[Merab]

So sorry for your loss.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
Holding you in my heart

 

[Bill & Ted]

Aw, so sorry you had to make the final decision for Theo, we had to make the same decision for our Ted, it’s so sad and I know just how devastated you feel. But you made that decision out of love for your boy so he didn’t suffer. Hold tight to your wonderful memories of him, sending hugs x

Sleep tight little Theo

 

[Siikibam]

I’m so sorry for your loss. You did the best for him that you could.

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry, to hear your sad news. He had a wonderful caring home with you. You could not have done more for him, sending you my best wishes as you grieve for your special boy.

 

[VickiA]

I am so sorry to read your update. Sleep tight little fellow.

 

[Sunshine Pigs]

So sorry for your loss.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
Holding you in my heart

Aw, so sorry you had to make the final decision for Theo, we had to make the same decision for our Ted, it’s so sad and I know just how devastated you feel. But you made that decision out of love for your boy so he didn’t suffer. Hold tight to your wonderful memories of him, sending hugs x

Sleep tight little Theo

I’m so sorry for your loss. You did the best for him that you could.

I am so sorry, to hear your sad news. He had a wonderful caring home with you. You could not have done more for him, sending you my best wishes as you grieve for your special boy.

I am so sorry to read your update. Sleep tight little fellow.

Thanks so much everyone ❤

 

[Sunnyandbutch]

I’m so sorry for your loss, I hope he’s popcorning over the rainbow bridge . Sleep tight little man.

 

[Edith4]

I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I have had two boars go through bladder surgery and have said never again. My 6.5 year old is now showing signs of bladder disease (not gone down the route of sedation and tests yet) and has been given two weeks to improve on ABs and painkillers or I face the same decision as you do now. It's never easy whatever their age and whatever your past experience. There is no right or wrong way, only an agonising decision made with love. Sending you both love and hugs.

I am going through the same thing with my guinea pig, she has blood in her urine and painful when she tries to wee. She hasn’t drank in about 6 days and refuses to take water from syringe. She is eating g all her veg but nothing else and is loosing weight. Vet have giving me a week to see if she improves. If not then pay £300 for tests to see if it’s kindney/bladder stones or put her to sleep

 

[Sunshine Pigs]

Hi @Edith4 - I've just seen your message. I'm so sorry to hear about your little pig too. It's such a heart-breaking decision. I'm not sure if you read the posts the other forum members left for me, but I found them so helpful in coming to terms with what was happening and knowing I wasn't alone. I think the most important thing I learned is that if a decision is well-informed and comes from a place of love for your pig, it's never 'wrong'. Sending you positive thoughts and strength xx

 

[YvonneBlue]

I am so sorry that you lost Theo. He was so obviously much loved by you and had a long and happy life. Do try and focus on all the lovely piggy days he had and hopefully the sadness of his loss will be easier to bear. Sending big hugs. xx

Popcorn free across the rainbow bridge little fella. ❤

 

[Rivervixen]

I’m so sorry that Theo had to go to the bridge popcorn free Theo xx